awyala
Guest
63% percent of the population rigged it.
RIP Hugo Chavez
- Thread starter KarGo
- Start date
63% percent of the population rigged it.
Excerpted from The Wall Street Journal: By MARY ANASTASIA O’GRADYThanks to Hugo Chávez, the legacy of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet as the only Latin American military dictator in modern times to voluntarily give up power through the ballot box is preserved this morning. Pinochet looks like more of a hero than ever.
Mr. Chávez “won” the Venezuelan presidential election Sunday by collecting 54% of the vote to 45% for challenger Henrique Capriles Radonski. But he did it with control of all of Venezuela’s government institutions and, more important, near total ownership of the Venezuelan economy. This gave the Venezuelan state the power to directly manipulate voter rolls and ballots and an open checkbook to influence—some would say “buy”—the vote. Mr. Capriles was never engaged in a fair fight.
Over 14 years Mr. Chávez has turned Venezuela into a crime-ridden economic disaster, and the opposition’s internal polling had given it confidence that it had the votes to win. But that didn’t provide much comfort to anyone familiar with chavista fraud.
The Chávez-controlled National Electoral Council (CNE) had refused to allow an independent audit of the voter registry, and the likelihood that the list is corrupted is high. How else to explain that there were 11 million registered voters in 1999 and there are almost 19 million voters today?The CNE’s website lists thousands of voters between the ages of 111 and 129.
A second red flag popped up when some political parties withdrew their support for Mr. Capriles after the ballots had been printed with his photo next to their boxes. Nevertheless the CNE ruled that any votes cast for those parties—with their accompanying photos of Mr. Capriles—would go to the party’s replacement candidates, not to Mr. Capriles. This likely caused confusion for some voters, especially because one of those parties had a name suspiciously similar to Mr. Capriles’s official party. Mr. Chávez had also closed the Venezuelan consulate in Miami earlier this year, leaving thousands of Venezuelans who live in the U.S. and likely favored Mr. Capriles disenfranchised.
Mr. Chávez’s wide margin is probably best explained by the government’s lavish spending funded with borrowing. One example: China is reported to have lent the dictator more than $40 billion since 2007 in exchange for future oil reserves.
According to a Bloomberg news report in September, “at least $12 billion was promised in the past 15 months, when stagnant oil output and the highest borrowing costs among major emerging markets would’ve made raising capital more expensive.” Mr. Chávez also owns the airwaves and the job security of millions of state workers.
Source : The wall street Journal
And before someone says that this is only the American perspective, here is a link to one of the Main Caracas newspaper http://www.eluniversal.com/opinion/120617/elecciones-compradas
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Both those guys (pro and anti - Chavez) are iReport producers - meaning, just like us here...
My second comment about expats is not related to CNN article but a response to others who had "first-hand" talks with expats...
I don't think any reasoning is going to change your mind, you picked your side of the coin and that is it... Enjoy it.
How is this section different from the rest of CNN.com?
Everything you see on iReport starts with someone in the CNN audience. Stories submitted to CNN iReport are not edited fact-checked or screened before they post. Only stories marked "CNN iReport" have been vetted and cleared by CNN.
http://ireport.cnn.com/faq.jspa
It seems that so have you
So far I have only seen opinions and government propaganda in this thread
Only responding because you are talking directly to me
As this iReport got so much attention, we decided to take a closer look at the sources and statistics he’s citing in his argument and offer a fact check:
TRUE AND FALSE: Even from your death bed, you had a Supreme Court justice fired because she didn't agree with your politics.
De León was correct that Chavez fired a judge, but it wasn’t a Supreme Court justice. Judge María Lourdes Afiuni was arrested in December 2009, and other judges were fired, but she is not a Supreme Court justice, according to Human Rights Watch. Then-Supreme Court justice Eladio Aponte, who is male, was fired from the National Assembly for alleged links to a drug suspect in March 2012.
TRUE AND FALSE: In 14 years, our homicide rate more than tripled from 22/100K to 74/100K. While judges were busy trying to prove their political allegiance to you, only 11% of homicides led to a conviction.
De León is right – the homicide rate in Venezuela tripled – but the numbers are different. There were 67 homicide victims per 100,000 in 2012, up from 19 victims per 100,000 in 1998, when Chavez took office. That’s according to the LA Times.
FALSE: 10.7% of Venezuelans are in extreme poverty.
Depending on how you define extreme poverty, the numbers vary. As of 2011, 31.6% of Venezuelans live below the poverty line, according to the CIA World Factbook. But, according to "official government figures" in a Guardian analysis from October 2012, there were 8.5% of Venezuelans living in extreme poverty in 2011.
CNN confirmed the following claims from De León’s iReport:
TRUE: In 14 years you built less public housing than any president before you did in their 5 year periods. Hospitals today have no resources, and if you go there in an emergency you must bring with you everything from medicines to surgical gloves and masks.
TRUE: When you took office, the price of oil was $9.30, and in 2008 it reached $126.33.
TRUE: You shut down more than 30 radio and television stations for being critical of your government.
TRUE (of course, “manipulated” is an opinion): You manipulated the elections in 2010 to make sure the opposition didn't get more than a third of seats in Parliament even though they got 51% of the popular vote.
Like most iReporters, De León isn't a trained journalist. But he’s someone who has been active in online discussions about Venezuela, and we're glad he shared his personal views with CNN.
http://ireport.cnn.com/blogs/ireport-blog/2013/03/06/fact-check-10-reasons-i-won-t-miss-chavez
UmmmmYes, and I'm gonna believe anything that the US propaganda machine tells me about a country that doesn't let their corporations pillage it and that has oil - lots and lots of oil
El Universal? The paper that called a US-backed military coup that removed the democratically elected government and tried to replace it with a fascist dictatorship "A Step Forward" (¡Un Paso Adelante!)? A very neutral and pro-democratic news source by the looks of it
My point was to corroborate the Wall Street Journal article with a Venezuelan Newspaper that had similar informationEl Universal? The paper that called a US-backed military coup that removed the democratically elected government and tried to replace it with a fascist dictatorship "A Step Forward" (¡Un Paso Adelante!)? A very neutral and pro-democratic news source by the looks of it
It is hard to find many media outlets to reference information from Since Chavez closed over 30 TV, Radio stations and Newspapers - Don't you wonder why he had to do that?
"replace it with a fascist dictatorship" do you have some facts or sources or any names of who were those fascists that were going to replace Chavez?
Don't you wonder why thousands of Chavez voters were over 110 years old?..etc
I don't see anyone commenting on any of that
This is getting old and I should have stopped when i said I was but I just can stay quiet.. I really need to stop now
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But in a democracy there is no need to close any propaganda, everyone has the right to speak, no?
I have watched that film many times, I am glad you posted it - This was in April of 2002, like I said before he did some really good things on his first period then power and corruption went to his head
Also remember that this is a point of view from inside the government palace and the people closest to him, and in order for this film to be released it was highly edited and approved by the government of Chavez
Most of the meetings he had in front of cameras were rehearsed and well positioned before the cuop
However, it is good for everyone to see that he was adored by millions and hated by millions - the thing I keep going back to is, is Venezuela better off today than in 1998!
Schwarzenegger looks great when **** is edited his way
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From a Venezuelan paper that is a propaganda piece for the same interests? If he was such a dictator, he would have shut them down, too.
gwelfmike
Well-known member
Try to fix Toronto's roads in 15 yearsHe inherited a ******** and has done a lot more to improve it than the guys before him. Do you realize that the poverty rate was 55% when he came into power? Who lets the country get to that point? I never claimed that he created a utopian society, only that he made great strides in fixing a lot of what's wro
The guys before him didn't exactly leave an abundance of highly trained medical specialists, while Cuban medical training is among the best in the world. Nothing wrong with giving your head of government the best medical treatment you can. A good doctor takes more than 15 years to train.
Well, that explains it.
Bottom line - over here we will mostly hear the voices of Venezuelan expats and many of them come from the elites and middle classes that lost out in the transition and got partially replaced. Very few people who move to Canada are happy with their old country. The situation in Venezuela is still bad, but considering what Chavez started with, he's a miracle worker.
Firststart, have you actually been there. On paper the level of poverty has decreased, but if it has as much as you would like to belive why is the murder rate so high. If we live in a society that is just, the police and military can be trusted, then you get a low poverty rate and have a low crime rate. I have travelled throughout the Venezuela, it is a beautiful country, with a lot of friendly and out going people, but I also saw a country where crime and poverty is rampant. On my last visit, someone was shot dead in front of our hotel, it took police over an hour to attend. When my wifes daughter was sexually assaulted, they phoned the police and was told "What do you want us to do about it?"
As for the sabotage, it was done by the workers, why, because they figure if they sabotage the lines then they will have more work, more work, more pay and they see the incompentence of the new managers as a sign of the factory closing , that the company that once employed over 10,000 people dwindle to about 3,000, and of course it was not the best and brightest workers that went first. You can figure out which ones went on yor own accord I hope.
These rallies you see on TV, they are like an evangilical revival meeting, and those people are employed by Chavez and if they do not show up for these, they may as well not show up for there job Monday morning. So you dont support the goverment, you dont have a job, so of course you support the goverment.
And yes, in a theortical world, socialism should work, but we dont live in a therotical world.
ashkan
Banned
Yes, and I'm gonna believe anything that the US propaganda machine tells me about a country that doesn't let their corporations pillage it and that has oil - lots and lots of oil
Haha i love when people quote Fox and CNN to back their pro capitalistic corporate American arguments lol
It's always hard to grasp the better of the 2 evils...Venezuelan "democracy" and US/Canadian "democracy"
but I'm sure as hell happy to live here and endure our screwed up system vs Chavez socialism. He's dead and already handpicked is successor....now that's takin care of business.
but I'm sure as hell happy to live here and endure our screwed up system vs Chavez socialism. He's dead and already handpicked is successor....now that's takin care of business.
The funny thing is that on the constitution that Chavez used so many times as his punch line, says very specifically who the presidents successor should be in case of his death, it should be the "speaker of the house" I can't remember the specific tittle in Spanish so I am using an equivalent for people to understand, instead he appointed his right hand
Way to use the constitution when it applies to his benefit and throw it away when it doesn't
Edit:
Article 187. When there is absence of the President-elect before taking office, a new election is universal and direct on the date indicate the Chambers in joint session. When the complete absence occurs after the inauguration, the Chambers shall, within thirty days, to elect, by secret ballot and expressly convened in joint session, a new President for the remainder of the constitutional term. In this case the provisions in the sole paragraph of Article 184. In both cases, while election and inauguration of the new president, the congress president will handle the presidency, in his absence, the Vice-Chair, and, failing that, the President of the Supreme Court
http://www.tsj.gov.ve/legislacion/crv.html
Very poor Google translation but here it is
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Venezuela oil reserves are reported to be twice that size of Saudi Arabia's. I guess attacking IRAN will have to wait.
