RIP Hugo Chavez

Latin America, most of the time has been unstable due to a struggle for power. Everybody wants to be king.

Always some militant group wanting to overthrow the gov't

Sent from my Phone, dont judge the grammar
 
Would you prefer a propped up Dictator put in place by the US to do their bidding?
I don't see your connection there but sure I'll bite
I Would prefer someone that took care of its people while making decisions that would move the country into prosperity

I didn't want someone that kissed the baby and short term "helped" the poor while backstabbing the country and its opportunity to be a prosperous economy while its people "EVERYONE" could live safe and with a minimum opportunity to make a living

Try to get a loan to buy a car, a house... hell a TV and the bank will say no

Venezuelan Minimun wage is 1,548 Bolivares a month = 250 Dollars

[TABLE="class: data_wide_table, width: 920"]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD="class: priceTd"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tr_highlighted_menu"]Rent Per Month[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][Edit] mean[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_standard"]
[TD]Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1,400.00 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD]Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]877.67 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_standard"]
[TD]Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2,500.00 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD]Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1,639.70 $[/TD]
[TD="class: priceTd"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: data_wide_table, width: 920"]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD="class: priceTd"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: tr_highlighted_menu"]Clothing And Shoes[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][Edit] mean[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_standard"]
[TD]1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]162.97 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD]1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100.00 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_standard"]
[TD]1 Pair of Nike Shoes[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]139.76 $[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr_highlighted, bgcolor: #FFF6DE"]
[TD]1 Pair of Men Leather Shoes[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]232.55 $[/TD]
[TD="class: priceTd"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I would like to see you making this money and paying those prices
 
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I don't see your connection there but sure I'll bite
I Would prefer someone that took care of its people while making decisions that would move the country into prosperity

I didn't want someone that kissed the baby and short term "helped" the poor while backstabbing the country and its opportunity to be a prosperous economy while its people "EVERYONE" could live safe and with a minimum opportunity to make a living

Well Chavez is dead.
Who will be the next leader and more importantly whose interest will they represent?
 
He is not that far off....note the rise in anti Chavez rhetoric corresponds with the discovered oil reserves in Venezuela circa 2006! The US just does not have their military hooks embedded in the region to wage a hard-war at the moment. Well they do have their Columbian proxy and CIA ops!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Venezuela

Had it not been for the late discovery of oil, the US would have been all over whoever ruled Venezuela, if oil was discovered 30 years ago or around 1935 as it had been in Arabia. Hell they used hard-power over bananas!!!!! Give it time, they will eventually suffer a few bloody noses to the Chinese and employ a western hemispherical hard power in 50 years, withdrawing their armies from lost battlefields to bully the Latin people around in a quasi isolationist return to their roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

Wars over fruit you say?!?! Oh that's cooky conspiracy talk!

[h=3]Venezuela - The Economy[/h]VenezuelaAN UPPER-MIDDLE INCOME, oil-producing country, Venezuela enjoyed the highest standard of living in Latin America. The country's gross domestic product ( GDP) in 1988 was approximately US$58 billion, or roughly US$3,100 per capita. Although the petroleum industry has dominated the Venezuelan economy since the 1920s, aluminum, steel, and petrochemicals diversified the economy's industrial base during the 1980s. Agriculture activity was relatively minor and shrinking, whereas services were expanding.
Venezuela possessed enormous natural resources. The country was the world's third largest exporter of oil, its ninth largest producer of oil, and accounted for more oil reserves than any other nation in the Western Hemisphere. The national petroleum company, Venezuelan Petroleum Corporation (Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A.--PDVSA), was also the third largest international oil conglomerate. Because of its immense mineral wealth, Venezuela in 1990 was also poised to become an international leader in the export of coal, iron, steel, and aluminum.

Guess what happened in the late 1990" - Chavez took over

Where is Venezuela today??
 
Can you quote where did you get those facts from?

I did all my high-school and university schooling in Venezuela and trust me you are wrong

"In the first half of the 20th century, US oil companies were heavily involved in Venezuela, initially interested only in purchasing concessions.[SUP][66][/SUP] In 1943 a new government introduced a 50/50 split in profits between the government and the oil industry. In 1960, with a newly installed democratic government, Hydrocarbons Minister Juan Pablo Pérez Alfonso led the creation of OPEC, the consortium of oil-producing countries aiming to support the price of oil.[SUP][67]"[/SUP]

I should be more clear. I am referring to the recent spike in massive oil reserves that place Venezuela near the top of oil production. Though you are right about early oil exploration the US also had a very easy time of consolidating control over the early oil production no?

"After about twenty years from the installment of the first oil drill, Venezuela had become the largest oil exporter in the world and the second largest oil producer, after the United States. Exportation of oil boomed from 1.9% to 91.2% between 1920 and 1935.[SUP][6][/SUP] When oil was discovered at the Maracaibo strike in 1922, Venezuela's dictator Juan Vicente Gómez allowed Americans to write Venezuela's petroleum law"

So why then did the US switch such an intense focus onto the Middle East from 1935 onwards? Why relax hard-power in the Latin Americas and focus instead in the Gulf of Arabia?

"In 1944, the Venezuelan government granted several new concessions encouraging the discovery of even more oil fields. This was mostly attributed to an increase in oil demand caused by an ongoing World War II, and by 1945, Venezuela was producing close to 1 million barrels per day (160,000 m[SUP]3[/SUP]/d). Being an avid supplier of petroleum to the Allies of World War II, Venezuela had increased its production by 42 percent from 1943 to 1944 alone.[SUP][10][/SUP] Even after the war, oil demand continued to rise due to the fact that there was an increase from twenty-six million to forty million cars in service in the United States from 1945 to 1950.[SUP][11][/SUP] By the mid-1950s, however, Middle Eastern countries had started contributing significant amounts of oil to the international petroleum market, and the United States had implemented oil import quotas. The world experienced an over-supply of oil, and prices plummeted."

This is an important point because Venezuela could no longer meet demand, and the Gulf no longer remained as a contested war zone (through WW1). Though Venz helped supply the allies in WW1 and WW2 as an isolated bastion, it also was considered so "safe" that oil in the Gulf was pursued for a few reasons:

1) Gulf oil was closer to the new front lines after WW1 and WW2

2) it strategically aided in cutting resources off from the emergent Soviet Empire, though the Soviets managed to secure massive gas and oil reserves in the central Asian states. None the less, they were effectively cut off from the former oil fields of another now defunct Anglo power.

3) and leading from the 1st point, the US seized the opportunity to pick up the British territories throughout the Mid East. Latin America was effectively now a secondary reserve and their own US land, a tertiary reserve. Latin American countries were sufficiently pacified, and where they stepped out of line the US exercised hard power to suppress Communism and resource re-allocation out of the region and onto the Russians! Latin America was fairly easy to subdue with enough crooked politicians, and even to this day!

4) for the most part the Mid East was also quite pliable, however the greater issue of Russia warranted the massive display of force.

5) Once communism fell, the Mid East began to turn on the US with the rise of Islamism, which serves to potentially expel the Americans and open the region to Chinese expansion. The same is true for Africa, and the US will allocated more direct military attention to Africa for the same reason.

6) Where wars have proven to weaken the US in the Gulf and the greater region, the US, also due to domestic and economic pressure has now turned to secondary and tertiary reserves as a back up supply for easy cheap oil. This coincides with Canadian and Venezuelan spikes in oil discovery and export....not to mention the most recent discover in 2012 of massive US reserves!!!

So in a general sense the US hasn't meddled in Venz for more complex reasons than simply: "no oil". That is an over simplification, but generally speaking Venz oil production, though once second largest in the world, was at a time of much reduced demand. US attention turned to larger reserves in regions that also strategically cut off their competitors. When faced with difficult battles for their traditional preferred oil sources, the US falls back on easy pickings. The trouble is Chavez disrupted those easy pickings! What with his Simon Bolivar like inspiration and his communist sympathies.

"Prior to 1938, there were three main factors that triggered the search for oil in Arabia:
  • The discovery of oil by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company at Masjid-i-Sulaiman in the mountains of north-western Persia in 1908; but the consensus of geological opinion at the time was that there was no oil on the Arabian peninsula, although there were rumours of an oil seepage at Qatif on the eastern seaboard of al-Hasa, the eastern province of Arabia.
  • The demand for oil during World War I. Throughout the war, it became obvious that oil was going to be a crucial resource in warfare for the foreseeable future.[SUP][1][/SUP] Examples that proved this were “General Galleini’s commandeering of the Paris taxi fleet to ferry soldiers to the front. This happened when the city seemed about to fall”.[SUP][3][/SUP] In addition to this, Germany’s shortage of oil supplies hindered their ability to produce aircraft, automobiles, and engines. The allies took advantage of this by producing thousands of vehicles to aid their war effort.[SUP][3][/SUP]
  • The onset of the Great Depression. Prior to the depression, a major source of income for the ruler of Hijaz was the taxes paid by pilgrims on their way to the holy cities. After the depression hit, the number of pilgrimages per year fell from 100,000 to below 40,000.[SUP][1][/SUP] This hurt their economy greatly and they needed to find alternate sources of income. This caused King ‘Abd-al’-Aziz to get serious about the search for oil."

"In 1943, the name of the company in control in Saudi Arabia was changed to Arabian American Oil Company (ARAMCO). In addition, numerous changes were made to the original concession after the striking of oil. In 1939, the first modification gave the Arabian American Oil Company a greater area to search for oil and extended the concession until 1999, increasing the original deal by six years. In return, ARAMCO agreed to provide the Saudi Arabian government with large amounts of free kerosene and gasoline, and to pay higher payments than originally stipulated"

The portions above highlight the amiability and strategic nature of the Gulf oil reserves. Especially for an army now required to keep the Soviets at bay.

As you know OPEC was not something the US was terribly happy about and though Venezuela was part of it, they also were not the main source of their concern, rather Mid East oil was far more problematic, especially with the Saud's increasingly buying up more of ARAMCO and offering less and less concessions to the US, coupled with the decline of the Soviets and the rise of Islamist movements.

Venz was relatively a small fish to fry in the OPEC / 70s oil crises when it came to the weakening hold on Mid East oil and strategic geo-political domination. Even now Venz is relatively small fish to fry in the US' attempt to cordon off China from the Mid East, Africa and Central Asia, except for the inconvenient 2006 spike in Venz oil and a president with Iranian, Chinese / Communist sympathies and an axe to grind with the US akin to Simon Bolivar to the Spanish.

If it were not for the massive new reserves found and the precarious position of the US in the Gulf, Chavez would have received even less attention.

But because the US' primary source of oil is in threat, and with Chavez, their secondary source of reserve oil was politically in jeopardy, then some soft power was used against Chavez.

If and when the US loses it's grip on the Mid East and China secures resources in Sudan, Nigeria, and Iran, the US will begin exercising hard power in Venz. Additionally they will begin imposing unpopular strategies upon their own population to tap into their now secondary (formerly tertiary) US native oil reserves! This internal soft-power has already begun.

Once again, Venz was relatively small fry...even after OPEC and the 70s oil crises:
Venezuela_Oil_Reserves.png



That is now changing...
 
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Well Chavez is dead.
Who will be the next leader and more importantly whose interest will they represent?
Good question, who knows

All I can say is

Nacional Electoral (CNE), Hugo Rafael Chavez Frias was reelected for another 6-year presidential term in Venezuela, after beating challenger Henrique Capriles 54% to 44%.

Chavez's challenger, 40-year-old lawyer and former governor of the populous state of Miranda, Henrique Capriles Radonski, has gained popular support by pledging to keep Chavez's social programs while spurring the private sector economic growth he says Chavez has crushed with his statist revolution (with decaying infrastructure and scarcity of goods as byproducts in this oil-rich country).

Hopefully Him but doubt it - Chavez was very good at positioning his people on the most powerful positions in the government and military, so for the next decade, I see it as business as usual
 
The thing awyala is, I am offering facts that answer the OP comment and I quote "True fighter for people's rights". I don't measure Hugo Chavez against how successful he was against the states since to me the USA is not the center of the universe.

People said that Venezuela only discovered oil recently and Myself and RockerGuy corrected that wrong fact.

I agree with Hugo Chavez nationalizing our petroleum, I do agree that the USA took advantage of Venezuela for decades, my problem is what he did with the money and how he went about it


 
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RIP Hugo. He reduced poverty, thus creating more of a middle class by a HUGE chunk (more than half). He brought roads, running water, electricity and education into regions that were living in abject misery. He stood up to the US pressure and did his job - took care of the people that elected him, even survived a US coup. I love the fact that he used the army on building projects where they built and repaired roads and other structures. My dad did something similar on a much smaller scale (company-level) - cutting roads and digging wells, which kept his troops trained and active while improving public relations with the locals. I have lots of respect for the man and the world is a much sadder place with him gone. I hope his successors will carry on his legacy.
 
Venezuela - The Economy

VenezuelaAN UPPER-MIDDLE INCOME, oil-producing country, Venezuela enjoyed the highest standard of living in Latin America. The country's gross domestic product ( GDP) in 1988 was approximately US$58 billion, or roughly US$3,100 per capita. Although the petroleum industry has dominated the Venezuelan economy since the 1920s, aluminum, steel, and petrochemicals diversified the economy's industrial base during the 1980s. Agriculture activity was relatively minor and shrinking, whereas services were expanding.
Venezuela possessed enormous natural resources. The country was the world's third largest exporter of oil, its ninth largest producer of oil, and accounted for more oil reserves than any other nation in the Western Hemisphere. The national petroleum company, Venezuelan Petroleum Corporation (Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A.--PDVSA), was also the third largest international oil conglomerate. Because of its immense mineral wealth, Venezuela in 1990 was also poised to become an international leader in the export of coal, iron, steel, and aluminum.

Guess what happened in the late 1990" - Chavez took over

Where is Venezuela today??

And did they only export the to US?

How exactly do you credit screwing all that up to Chavez and his idealism?

You clearly know your economic stuff, so I am asking not to patronize, but to seek your opinion on how Chavez affected the economy so negatively. You are the resident authority here, so please do expand further.
 
The thing awyala is, I am offering facts that answer the OP comment and I quote "True fighter for people's rights". I don't measure Hugo Chavez against how successful he was against the states since to me the USA is not the center of the universe.

People said that Venezuela only discovered oil recently and Myself and RockerGuy corrected that wrong fact.

I agree with Hugo Chavez nationalizing our petroleum, I do agree that the USA took advantage of Venezuela for decades, my problem is what he did with the money and how he went about it



To those points you are more accurate and correct. Thanks for sharing.
 
The thing awyala is, I am offering facts that answer the OP comment and I quote "True fighter for people's rights". I don't measure Hugo Chavez against how successful he was against the states since to me the USA is not the center of the universe.

People said that Venezuela only discovered oil recently and Myself and RockerGuy corrected that wrong fact.

I agree with Hugo Chavez nationalizing our petroleum, I do agree that the USA took advantage of Venezuela for decades, my problem is what he did with the money and how he went about it


Hey thanks for filling me in on the other side of the story. Edited my post about oil, i knew they had one of the largest deposits aside from the middle east. I was trying to refer to nationalisation vene vs iraq -with US outlook. Also if he reduced poverty, how did he destroy the middle class? Wouldn't creating education, jobs, etc increase the middle class?
 
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Quoting this just to way I'm not going to read it.

I should be more clear. I am referring to the recent spike in massive oil reserves that place Venezuela near the top of oil production. Though you are right about early oil exploration the US also had a very easy time of consolidating control over the early oil production no?

"After about twenty years from the installment of the first oil drill, Venezuela had become the largest oil exporter in the world and the second largest oil producer, after the United States. Exportation of oil boomed from 1.9% to 91.2% between 1920 and 1935.[SUP][6][/SUP] When oil was discovered at the Maracaibo strike in 1922, Venezuela's dictator Juan Vicente Gómez allowed Americans to write Venezuela's petroleum law"

So why then did the US switch such an intense focus onto the Middle East from 1935 onwards? Why relax hard-power in the Latin Americas and focus instead in the Gulf of Arabia?

"In 1944, the Venezuelan government granted several new concessions encouraging the discovery of even more oil fields. This was mostly attributed to an increase in oil demand caused by an ongoing World War II, and by 1945, Venezuela was producing close to 1 million barrels per day (160,000 m[SUP]3[/SUP]/d). Being an avid supplier of petroleum to the Allies of World War II, Venezuela had increased its production by 42 percent from 1943 to 1944 alone.[SUP][10][/SUP] Even after the war, oil demand continued to rise due to the fact that there was an increase from twenty-six million to forty million cars in service in the United States from 1945 to 1950.[SUP][11][/SUP] By the mid-1950s, however, Middle Eastern countries had started contributing significant amounts of oil to the international petroleum market, and the United States had implemented oil import quotas. The world experienced an over-supply of oil, and prices plummeted."

This is an important point because Venezuela could no longer meet demand, and the Gulf no longer remained as a contested war zone (through WW1). Though Venz helped supply the allies in WW1 and WW2 as an isolated bastion, it also was considered so "safe" that oil in the Gulf was pursued for a few reasons:

1) Gulf oil was closer to the new front lines after WW1 and WW2

2) it strategically aided in cutting resources off from the emergent Soviet Empire, though the Soviets managed to secure massive gas and oil reserves in the central Asian states. None the less, they were effectively cut off from the former oil fields of another now defunct Anglo power.

3) and leading from the 1st point, the US seized the opportunity to pick up the British territories throughout the Mid East. Latin America was effectively now a secondary reserve and their own US land, a tertiary reserve. Latin American countries were sufficiently pacified, and where they stepped out of line the US exercised hard power to suppress Communism and resource re-allocation out of the region and onto the Russians! Latin America was fairly easy to subdue with enough crooked politicians, and even to this day!

4) for the most part the Mid East was also quite pliable, however the greater issue of Russia warranted the massive display of force.

5) Once communism fell, the Mid East began to turn on the US with the rise of Islamism, which serves to potentially expel the Americans and open the region to Chinese expansion. The same is true for Africa, and the US will allocated more direct military attention to Africa for the same reason.

6) Where wars have proven to weaken the US in the Gulf and the greater region, the US, also due to domestic and economic pressure has now turned to secondary and tertiary reserves as a back up supply for easy cheap oil. This coincides with Canadian and Venezuelan spikes in oil discovery and export....not to mention the most recent discover in 2012 of massive US reserves!!!

So in a general sense the US hasn't meddled in Venz for more complex reasons than simply: "no oil". That is an over simplification, but generally speaking Venz oil production, though once second largest in the world, was at a time of much reduced demand. US attention turned to larger reserves in regions that also strategically cut off their competitors. When faced with difficult battles for their traditional preferred oil sources, the US falls back on easy pickings. The trouble is Chavez disrupted those easy pickings! What with his Simon Bolivar like inspiration and his communist sympathies.

"Prior to 1938, there were three main factors that triggered the search for oil in Arabia:
  • The discovery of oil by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company at Masjid-i-Sulaiman in the mountains of north-western Persia in 1908; but the consensus of geological opinion at the time was that there was no oil on the Arabian peninsula, although there were rumours of an oil seepage at Qatif on the eastern seaboard of al-Hasa, the eastern province of Arabia.
  • The demand for oil during World War I. Throughout the war, it became obvious that oil was going to be a crucial resource in warfare for the foreseeable future.[SUP][1][/SUP] Examples that proved this were “General Galleini’s commandeering of the Paris taxi fleet to ferry soldiers to the front. This happened when the city seemed about to fall”.[SUP][3][/SUP] In addition to this, Germany’s shortage of oil supplies hindered their ability to produce aircraft, automobiles, and engines. The allies took advantage of this by producing thousands of vehicles to aid their war effort.[SUP][3][/SUP]
  • The onset of the Great Depression. Prior to the depression, a major source of income for the ruler of Hijaz was the taxes paid by pilgrims on their way to the holy cities. After the depression hit, the number of pilgrimages per year fell from 100,000 to below 40,000.[SUP][1][/SUP] This hurt their economy greatly and they needed to find alternate sources of income. This caused King ‘Abd-al’-Aziz to get serious about the search for oil."

"In 1943, the name of the company in control in Saudi Arabia was changed to Arabian American Oil Company (ARAMCO). In addition, numerous changes were made to the original concession after the striking of oil. In 1939, the first modification gave the Arabian American Oil Company a greater area to search for oil and extended the concession until 1999, increasing the original deal by six years. In return, ARAMCO agreed to provide the Saudi Arabian government with large amounts of free kerosene and gasoline, and to pay higher payments than originally stipulated"

The portions above highlight the amiability and strategic nature of the Gulf oil reserves. Especially for an army now required to keep the Soviets at bay.

As you know OPEC was not something the US was terribly happy about and though Venezuela was part of it, they also were not the main source of their concern, rather Mid East oil was far more problematic, especially with the Saud's increasingly buying up more of ARAMCO and offering less and less concessions to the US, coupled with the decline of the Soviets and the rise of Islamist movements.

Venz was relatively a small fish to fry in the OPEC / 70s oil crises when it came to the weakening hold on Mid East oil and strategic geo-political domination. Even now Venz is relatively small fish to fry in the US' attempt to cordon off China from the Mid East, Africa and Central Asia, except for the inconvenient 2006 spike in Venz oil and a president with Iranian, Chinese / Communist sympathies and an axe to grind with the US akin to Simon Bolivar to the Spanish.

If it were not for the massive new reserves found and the precarious position of the US in the Gulf, Chavez would have received even less attention.

But because the US' primary source of oil is in threat, and with Chavez, their secondary source of reserve oil was politically in jeopardy, then some soft power was used against Chavez.

If and when the US loses it's grip on the Mid East and China secures resources in Sudan, Nigeria, and Iran, the US will begin exercising hard power in Venz. Additionally they will begin imposing unpopular strategies upon their own population to tap into their now secondary (formerly tertiary) US native oil reserves! This internal soft-power has already begun.

Once again, Venz was relatively small fry...even after OPEC and the 70s oil crises:
Venezuela_Oil_Reserves.png



That is now changing...
 
You clearly know your economic stuff, so I am asking not to patronize, but to seek your opinion on how Chavez affected the economy so negatively. You are the resident authority here, so please do expand further.

I'm guessing he screwed it up by fostering double-digit economic growth while reducing the poverty rate from 55% to less than half of that :cool:
 
I'm guessing he screwed it up by fostering double-digit economic growth while reducing the poverty rate from 55% to less than half of that :cool:
Oh men, my sister in law used to send me email after email regurgitating this kind of stuff, all I am asking if for people to look closely to the real information

Yes he did many good things for the poor, I will not deny that but ...

That habit of impromptu policymaking was integral to Mr Chavez's style, right from the start of his 14 years in power.
Time and again, the president would make major decisions on an ad hoc basis, often during the course of his rambling and unscripted weekly TV broadcast to the nation, known as Alo Presidente.
He was particularly prone to quick-fix solutions in economic policy, resorting to regular currency devaluations, expropriations of private firms and inflation-busting public-sector pay rises rather than tackling the economy's underlying structural problems.
This fire-fighting approach continued even as Mr Chavez lingered on his Cuban sickbed, with Vice-President Nicolas Maduro implementing a 32% devaluation of the bolivar in February.
As a result, Mr Chavez bequeaths a nation beset by crumbling infrastructure, unsustainable public spending and underperforming industry.
Thanks to his social programmes, poorer Venezuelans have certainly benefited from the country's oil wealth more than they did under what he called the rotten elites that used to be in charge.
But there are strong suspicions that much money has been wasted - not just through corruption, but also sheer incompetence."



 
I'm guessing he screwed it up by fostering double-digit economic growth while reducing the poverty rate from 55% to less than half of that :cool:

And here is how he did it and the consequences

In the run-up to his presidential election victory last October, Mr Chavez made low-income and social housing a priority, launching a plan to build three million homes by 2018.Mr Chavez stepped up house-building in the run-up to the election
The housing drive fuelled big increases in public spending - and big expectations among those yet to be housed under the programme.
According to Bank of America-Merrill Lynch, government expenditure rose 30% in real terms as a result over the 12 months leading up to the election.
But all that largesse took its toll on the public finances. Capital Economics, a research company, estimates that Venezuela's fiscal deficit widened to 9% of GDP in 2012, while Morgan Stanley reckons it could have reached 12% by now.
According to the World Bank, the Venezuelan economy is estimated to have grown by more than 5% during 2012. However, it forecasts a slowdown in 2013, with just 1.8% growth expected, while many analysts are expecting the country to fall into recession this year.
The latest maxi-devaluation of the Venezuelan currency will help the government's financial position. Since oil is priced in dollars, a weaker bolivar increases the local value of oil revenues, giving the government more cash.
In theory, it should also help Venezuela to export more goods from other sectors of the economy. But observers reckon the country's manufacturing sector is too small to benefit much - another consequence of Venezuela's concentration on oil to the exclusion of all else.
In the words of Michael Henderson at Capital Economics: "The current malaise is the product of years of capital flight and under-investment, which has hollowed out the country's productive base."


But sure for every article I post I am sure you can find some good thing he did for the poor - The question is, is Venezuela better off since 1999? and the answer is no despite the fact that the oil has gone up so much
 
And did they only export the to US?

How exactly do you credit screwing all that up to Chavez and his idealism?

You clearly know your economic stuff, so I am asking not to patronize, but to seek your opinion on how Chavez affected the economy so negatively. You are the resident authority here, so please do expand further.
I hope my post above answered your question

No one is patronizing anyone, we are just having a good conversation. I am in no way the resident expert, I just happen to have these conversations with my friends that still live there that are pro and con chavez so my point of view come from people that suffer the so called "benefits" of Chavez economical policies

Just look at the list of prices compared to a minimum salary, I just don't understand how someone can justify such a disparity and say that his policies were successful when countries right beside them like Brazil and Colombia are doing so much better

It's like you are the guy that has a rich parent feeding you money (petroleum) but somehow you manage to still **** it up,

Chavez tells a good story! he is a good clown

He was a Hero!
 
I hope my post above answered your question

No one is patronizing anyone, we are just having a good conversation. I am in no way the resident expert, I just happen to have these conversations with my friends that still live there that are pro and con chavez so my point of view come from people that suffer the so called "benefits" of Chavez economical policies

Just look at the list of prices compared to a minimum salary, I just don't understand how someone can justify such a disparity and say that his policies were successful when countries right beside them like Brazil and Colombia are doing so much better

It's like you are the guy that has a rich parent feeding you money (petroleum) but somehow you manage to still **** it up,

Chavez tells a good story! he is a good clown

He was a Hero!

Sure sure, I don't find you patronizing, I was just trying to be clear I didn't want to come off as if I was patronizing you. I defer to the resident Venezuelan in these matters as I am an outsider to the issues to be frank.
 
ZX600 - copy/paste shows up - font is all different and stuff...
You should probably include your sources when you copy/paste - it clears things up - just saying...
 
Excellent discussion. I was afraid when I saw this post that it would be filled with bashing ignoramuses. Instead I find an informative and compelling discussion with an underlying sense of respect for the man, regardless.

Thanks Guys.

RIP Chavez.
 
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