RIP Hugo Chavez

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Just a question to those who are in praise of Chavez. Are you the same people who wear the Che shirts on a regular basis?

If a convicted murderer is found to do a lot of charity work on the side, isn't he/she still still considered a murderer? - So why do we consider these 'leaders' who are responsible for the deaths of thousands of their own people they are supposed to protect to be Saints?

Did Chavez did good work? Did he kill his people using his power? Both yes.
Same can be said of most left-wing dictators in the past.
Who are you going to praise next? Kim- Jong - Un?

Nothing wrong with being a Liberal-thinker. But the freedom to think that way didn't come from a Liberal.
 
adv_round said:
ZX600 - copy/paste shows up - font is all different and stuff...
You should probably include your sources when you copy/paste - it clears things up - just saying...
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The reason I left the different font is because I thought it was implied I was copying the information from a different source

I normally change the font color but to be honest I really don't care that much and it was late last night, I have never seen anyone's opinion changed on the Internet. I just wanted to offer information on the one side of the story...but I see your point.


The reason I don't discuss Egyptian or Israeli politics is because I am not educated enough about it to have a strong opinion and I didn't live there, others on the other hand...
 
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Chavez and Castro were pretty close pals, Chavez had been having much of his medical care as of late in Cuba. I dont really see either as great guys, because I'm not a fan of socialism/communism or dictators.

I was in Venezuela in 1985 the first time, poverty in the coastal city I worked in was enormous and there was a lot of military checkpoints on the roads when you traveled and you were very careful where you went at night, even the locals where very afraid of the local police (military). I've been there a few times since (vacation not working) and the poverty is still present, stories of people "disappeared" and rampant protests ending with military shootings make me not want to go back. There are lots of other places to go.

I wont miss Chavez and his track record is not unlike any other Dictator. I hope the next guy actually helps the middle class, there is huge disparity there. 8k sqft homes on the hills over look tin shack villages.
 
crankcall said:
Chavez and Castro were pretty close pals, Chavez had been having much of his medical care as of late in Cuba. I dont really see either as great guys, because I'm not a fan of socialism/communism or dictators.

I was in Venezuela in 1985 the first time, poverty in the coastal city I worked in was enormous and there was a lot of military checkpoints on the roads when you traveled and you were very careful where you went at night, even the locals where very afraid of the local police (military). I've been there a few times since (vacation not working) and the poverty is still present, stories of people "disappeared" and rampant protests ending with military shootings make me not want to go back. There are lots of other places to go.

I wont miss Chavez and his track record is not unlike any other Dictator. I hope the next guy actually helps the middle class, there is huge disparity there. 8k sqft homes on the hills over look tin shack villages.
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The disparity and the military checkpoints are the legacy of people who came before him. He created more of a middle class by halving the poverty rate in his country. The guys before him had it at 55%. They are the ones who created the initial disparity. He got dealt a crappy hand and did a great job at improving it. Yes, a part of it came at the expense of the old elites and some of the middle class, but overall, he improved the conditions in his country, which is more than can be said of most politicians. He wasn't a dictator no matter how much US propaganda wants to label him as such - he got democratically elected each and every time and a popular uprising put him back in power when the US had him put out of the way by means of a coup.

Disappearances are more the domain of fascist dictators that the US puts up to replace people like him. For example, when they replaced democratically elected Allende with Pinochet, he made tens of thousands of people "disappear" (dumped into the ocean), to the point of creating a new crime called "permanent disappearance" in Chile, with same ramifications as murder.
 
Say what you want against the man. He took his oil boom and started taking care of the poor, Gave the, free education, hospitals and ... look it up. Its NOT propaganda! . That's MUCH more that you can say and unfair to even compare to any of these American leaders who suck the blood out of third world countries, steal their resources with force, war and even suck the life out of their own working class to feed their hungry corporations and rich. In 2002 Bush actually backed a kou to overthrow Chavez because he wasnt "cooperative" with the U.S!!! But most importantly, Chavez was fighting for the independence of Venezuela and ultimately South America from American imperialistic capitalism. He fought for his country's right not to be exploited by the U.S just because U.S wants to so. Thats the same with Cuba, Iran, North Korea and ... but whatever country wants that rightful independence to grow will be branded as evil, crazy and dangerous while in reality, its those American allies(like Israel) that are the ones with real WMDs, nuclear weapons and a warmongering history. Dont buy into their lies. RIP comrade. As Che said, you can kill a man but you cant kill an idea. His revolution will go on.
 
ZX600 said:
The reason I left the different font is because I thought it was implied I was copying the information from a different source

I normally change the font color but to be honest I really don't care that much and it was late last night, I have never seen anyone's opinion changed on the Internet. I just wanted to offer information on the one side of the story...but I see your point.


The reason I don't discuss Egyptian or Israeli politics is because I am not educated enough about it to have a strong opinion and I didn't live there, others on the other hand...
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Must one live in a country to recognize that genocide is a bad and unjust thing?
 
Jinster81 said:
Just a question to those who are in praise of Chavez. Are you the same people who wear the Che shirts on a regular basis?

If a convicted murderer is found to do a lot of charity work on the side, isn't he/she still still considered a murderer? - So why do we consider these 'leaders' who are responsible for the deaths of thousands of their own people they are supposed to protect to be Saints?

Did Chavez did good work? Did he kill his people using his power? Both yes.
Same can be said of most left-wing dictators in the past.
Who are you going to praise next? Kim- Jong - Un?

Nothing wrong with being a Liberal-thinker. But the freedom to think that way didn't come from a Liberal.
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+1000

RIP Chávez? He deserves to rot in hell.

Ask any Venezuelan that lives in Canada and they'll tell you a very different story from what this orangutan did to Venezuela.
 
El Cockblock said:
+1000

RIP Chávez? He deserves to rot in hell.

Ask any Venezuelan that lives in Canada and they'll tell you a very different story from what this orangutan did to Venezuela.
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Can someone please tell us which past leaders were better than him?
 
ashkan said:
Say what you want against the man. He took his oil boom and started taking care of the poor, Gave the, free education, hospitals and ... look it up.
Zx- I don't have to look it up, I took advantage of that free education, guess what, we had it there way before Chavez took over, also free hospitals
This is what I mean when I say that people are talking just by what they read from Venezuelan Government publications without really knowing the truth

Its NOT propaganda! . That's MUCH more that you can say and unfair to even compare to any of these American leaders who suck the blood out of third world countries, steal their resources with force, war and even suck the life out of their own working class to feed their hungry corporations and rich. In 2002 Bush actually backed a kou to overthrow Chavez because he wasnt "cooperative" with the U.S!!!
ZX -It is true that the US backed the Coup but they were not the leaders or organizers of it, it was the opposition to the government, together with many Military generals. It was a Coup by the people of Venezuela and not the USA



But most importantly, Chavez was fighting for the independence of Venezuela and ultimately South America from American imperialistic capitalism.
ZX- This is somewhat accurate but the problem is how he went about it - Castro also fought from the independence of the American imperialism



He fought for his country's right not to be exploited by the U.S just because U.S wants to so. Thats the same with Cuba, Iran, North Korea and ... but whatever country wants that rightful independence to grow will be branded as evil, crazy and dangerous while in reality, its those American allies(like Israel) that are the ones with real WMDs, nuclear weapons and a warmongering history. Dont buy into their lies. RIP comrade. As Che said, you can kill a man but you cant kill an idea. His revolution will go on.
ZX - It is this passion that you have and I would say hate that brought many Venezuelans to pick up a gun and shot at an university student while protesting against the government. It is a dangerous thing when you feel so strongly that you are willing to kill someone that does not agree with your point of view and your interests...generally speaking
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I think the problem is that people that hate America by default think Chavez was great, kind of like the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing. There is a lot more into this story that just the USA interest

BuckWild said:
Must one live in a country to recognize that genocide is a bad and unjust thing?
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No - But you really don't know until you live there. Up to you if you want to talk without really knowing... what the hell, I do it all the time in this site, mostly for ***** and giggles
 
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The truth is that Chavez wanted to trade oil in Euro instead of USD. That's when you saw the US media start the massive propaganda against Chavez. They made him look like a boogey man. Even though they have no WMDS or any heavy weapons. The rest of the world knew what was going on. Now India, China, Russia, France, and many more are talking about trading oil in another currency other than the USD. USA cannot pull that **** with these other bigger countries.


KarGo said:
I truly hate the US government and their propaganda media to hate anyone who opposes them. If Venezuela had taken over the Oil industry, Chavez would have turned out like Saddam Hussain or Gaddafi. I think Ahmadinejad is great, hopefully the US doesn't put too many sanctions on Iran.
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For all those Venezuelans who think the U.S is there to bring them democracy and freedom and hated Chavez, Th ones who are backing his pretty boy rich american backed rival Radonski, i would like to point at Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan as the latest examples of U.S brought democracy to the oil/resources rich countries. You have to be a naive 2 year old with blind eyes and blocked ears in this world if you still think the U.S is doing the world any good. Chavez fought them off with what he had and thats the end of it. Unless your idea of democracy is 1,000,000 civilians dead in Venezuela(much like Iraq since 2003), dont be fooled by U.S propaganda.
 
Anybody know about the scuffle Venezuela has with Colombia?

Sent from my tablet using my paws
 
If I remember its border dispute, they have been arguing about geography and occasionally lobbing some shots back and forth for decades.
 
ashkan said:
For all those Venezuelans who think the U.S is there to bring them democracy and freedom and hated Chavez, Th ones who are backing his pretty boy rich american backed rival Radonski, i would like to point at Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan as the latest examples of U.S brought democracy to the oil/resources rich countries. You have to be a naive 2 year old with blind eyes and blocked ears in this world if you still think the U.S is doing the world any good. Chavez fought them off with what he had and thats the end of it. Unless your idea of democracy is 1,000,000 civilians dead in Venezuela(much like Iraq since 2003), dont be fooled by U.S propaganda.
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That meme is used for mockery of the US, not supporting them.
 
ashkan said:
For all those Venezuelans who think the U.S is there to bring them democracy and freedom and hated Chavez, Th ones who are backing his pretty boy rich american backed rival Radonski, i would like to point at Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan as the latest examples of U.S brought democracy to the oil/resources rich countries. You have to be a naive 2 year old with blind eyes and blocked ears in this world if you still think the U.S is doing the world any good. Chavez fought them off with what he had and thats the end of it. Unless your idea of democracy is 1,000,000 civilians dead in Venezuela(much like Iraq since 2003), dont be fooled by U.S propaganda.
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Oh Boy...Lolz
You would be surprised how much we (Venezuelans) don't really give a **** about the USA, most people are just trying to survive. By the way, we had democracy and freedom before Chavez since the 60's, we are not Irak!

Time for me to leave this thread, I won't be posting anymore

I think people with common sense can now judge by themselves if they read this thread

Later!
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ZX600 said:
By the way, we had democracy and freedom before Chavez since the 60's, we are not Irak!
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Don't forget the 55% poverty rate that got cut in half after Chavez came :cool:
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Don't forget the 55% poverty rate that got cut in half after Chavez came :cool:
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Damn it, you making me go back on my word, but this is a good comment

Let me ask you how are people able to calculate the poverty rate if we don't even know how many people are currently living in Venezuela, Why?

Because most "Barrios" poor neighborhoods are currently so dangerous that the census people won't even go there, yes the census is a manual process where someone walks to your house and asks you various questions, there is no fancy email or mail system there like we have here.

Would you go in here to ask people questions? lol good luck coming back

The census in Venezuela like in most countries is controlled by the government and so are the results

"
THE CURRENT POVERTY MEASURE The current poverty measure has a set of lines, or thresholds, that are compared with families' resources to determine whether or not they are poor. The thresholds differ by the number of adults and children in a family and, for some family types, by the age of the family head. The resources are families' annual before-tax money income.
Source : http://www.nap.edu/html/poverty/summary.html



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I think this guy is waiting for you to ask him how much he makes a year!
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