Provincial politics

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mmmnaked said:
I'd agree, if I thought the majority of voters actually based their choice on a well informed opinion.

This province's debt went from $130B in 2002 to almost $300B today, under the leadership of the same party. This same party basically got elected on the promise that they'll continue to borrow and spend even more money. I don't care what your view is, if you agree with the way this train is going, you're flat out wrong.
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Debt alone is not a meaningful means of comparison. You want debt-to-GDP ratio. By that measure, the ratio went down from 28% to 26% under McGuinty until the great recession, and since then it grew to 37%. Not good, but still manageable and even leaves room for more debt if we need it. And we need it! Besides, experts are saying this is the time to invest, not cut (as long as it's investment that supports development) because the interest rates are low, and they will remain low for a while.

How am I flat out wrong?

The only question mark right now is whether Wynne has the strength to keep spending to sensible rates, given her tendency to spout NDP rhetoric when it comes to services. But Liberal history alone does not give us any reason to be concerned about out-of-control spending.
 
mmmnaked said:
Personally I didn't find anything to cry about at the Ontario PC website.. small business owner here, burdened with massive payroll and WSIB payments, coupled with ever-increasing personal taxes. Now I'm facing another $300/month to pay for the Ontario Pension Plan, and a 50% increase in hydro costs over the next few years... not to mention whatever other taxes Wynne decides to introduce and/or increase.
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PLEASE READ THIS !!!

A lot of small business owners are going to close

The Libs are basically going to leave goverment workers and factory union workers and big companies like walmart
As the bulk of the work force

Which local small business can afford to pay a double pension a plan? And for how long? Thats a minimum $450 a month now for even the smallest business. Average 1-2 person business will pAy $600-$700 a month

No one cares for the self employed??
Its all about the 100,000 public workers?
How many people are self employed in ontario?
This is how a lot of us make money

BUT I BET IF ALL THE SELF EMPLOYED JOINED TOGETHER AND FORMED A UNION SO WE CAN MANIPULATE ELECTIONS AS A GROUP. THEN THEY WOULD CARE ABOUT US


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
fastar1 said:
Debt alone is not a meaningful means of comparison. You want debt-to-GDP ratio. By that measure, the ratio went down from 28% to 26% under McGuinty until the great recession, and since then it grew to 37%. Not good, but still manageable and even leaves room for more debt if we need it. And we need it! Besides, experts are saying this is the time to invest, not cut (as long as it's investment that supports development) because the interest rates are low, and they will remain low for a while.

How am I flat out wrong?

The only question mark right now is whether Wynne has the strength to keep spending to sensible rates, given her tendency to spout NDP rhetoric when it comes to services. But Liberal history alone does not give us any reason to be concerned about out-of-control spending.
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I'm glad the experts are telling me I can afford to spend more on taxes, pension plans, and hydro. I can't wait for life to get harder.
 
Yes hydro increases! You know that it's not a big enough rip off as it is already. I think no matter who got elected we would get the shift but sadly everyone voted in the worst of the evils
 
Rob MacLennan said:
No, the red herring is comparing things that are completely out of scale, as if they're identical.

http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime...-much-worse-than-californias-at-first-glance/
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I read that article a while ago. never blindly trust a news article. There is a big error in it. Ontario does not have an unfunded pension liability surplus. Rather a multi-billion dollar unfunded pension liability deficit. There are over 100 public pension plans in Ontario. The big three by my research have somewhere around $30 billion in unfunded pension liabilities.

And scale has nothing to do with it. If you are talking apples to oranges, true but that is somewhat misleading and like a red herring. That article discusses how the two jurisdictions are different in taxing power and responsibilities, but I and many other people still find it reasonable and useful to determine how a province's debt compares to other similar provinces and jurisdictions. IMO, just because Ontario has more responsibilities, it doesn't mean it is reasonable that they can more poorly manage finances, have much more debt, and consider it defensible. Though these jurisdictions may have some differences, one can acknowledge and account for that and make reasonable comparisons. All it takes is a bit of work (and a bit more than WSJ did). Getting a reasonable per capita debt estimate and comparison is a good thing.

These appear to be better comparo #'s that account for more of the overall debt picture for the state and province.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/48627

--------------------California----- Ontario
Population----------37.6 m-------13.5 m (est.)
Debt---------------$388.5 B-----$257.5 B
Debt per capita---$10,360------$19,074
GDP---------------$2,013 B-----$658.0 B (est)
Debt/GDP---------19.2%--------39.1%
2012 Deficit------ $16 B--------$15.1 B
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General reading interest.
http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/6/11/On...inherit-massive-debt-pile-Canada-Credit-.aspx




Mmmnaked, I wouldn't even bother for a second with fastar. His thoughts are riddled with a philosophy like this from his last post (which are the complete opposite yourself and many others).
fastar1 said:
But Liberal history alone does not give us any reason to be concerned about out-of-control spending.
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There is a reason so much ink has been spilled on the Ontario deficit and debt over the last 10 years. And it isn't because people are fine with it.
 
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What I found interesting over the last few pages was people discussing how they voted based on party campaign platform. IMO, that is useless. As I said a while back, Ontario has consistently rewarded the liberals even though that party ignored and went back on major campaign pledges. Multiple times. The parties are not stupid. They see there isn't any accountability in Ontario and platform rules the day which they can go back on anyway. Until parties are held accountable for their actions in Ontario, you can't trust a thing they will say. First drive accountability, then expect results based on platforms and promises. It does not work the other way around.

And many people still fell into the trap of voting based on platform. Not surprising. Most people seem to vote this way and they are not alone. What was hilarious was that the PCs and Hudak didn't even comprehend this with their bonehead platform statements.





On top of all the liberal sins people know well I'm still pi**** at their arbitrary application of laws and justice. Law bending to ignoring the law to just making bad laws. That would be enough for me alone, but it doesn't even make a dent with most people it seems.
- They made HTA 172 (stunting and racing), which has far too low and broad a threshold, and is a serious offence with immediate consequences. Plus it has only a later presumption of innocence.
- They made the dog owner liability act which included the ridiculous measure of banning entire breeds of dog in Ontario.
- And they let lawlessness go to the extreme in Caledonia. Completely ignored it and the rule of law. What a precedent. What a disgrace. And even now it is still costing taxpayers money.




A few more interesting reads.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...al-conservatism-and-fiscal-conservatism-lost/

Gas plant legacy. The Ontario public has continued to reward the liberals for the gas plant scandal. Congrats.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...gacy-all-five-ridings-stay-staunchly-liberal/
 
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kwtoxman I would be just as leery of taking at face value something that's produced by an organization that has an axe to grind, like the Fraser Institute. You point at one possible inconsistency in the article I posted, but do not see all of those in their piece? There's an awful lot of valid content in what I linked.
 
mmmnaked said:
I'm glad the experts are telling me I can afford to spend more on taxes, pension plans, and hydro. I can't wait for life to get harder.
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The economy can't be managed based on intuition, hunches, and self-righteous indignation. If it could, Hudak would be our leader.
 
fastar1 said:
The economy can't be managed based on intuition, hunches, and self-righteous indignation. If it could, Hudak would be our leader.
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You're right, it can instead be managed by endless increases in debt and taxation. Hooray. The Liberals have done a stellar job thus far, right?
 
fastar1 said:
Exactly this.

For those that need proof (as much as it can be 'proven') my riding has been PC, and voted solidly PC in the by-election earlier this year (49% vs. 40%). On Thursday, the Liberal candidate narrowly broke through by only 85 votes. What changed between then and now? Hudak announced his plan, that's what.
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Actually your riding is still PC. They decided it was a data entry error so they gave the 85 votes to the PC candidate instead. No doubt there'll be a recount, but at this very moment the fine riding of Thornhill is PC.
 
Sunspark said:
Hi Peterm15, if you haven't already done this I would like to ask you to please consider writing (or going to meet) your representative. Explain it exactly as you have to us, that you are compelled to pay money that you cannot ever be the recipient of and that it is damaging your business and could they please help? Either to allow you to receive if you are unfortunately injured or to create a waiver exemption for those who can't receive from having to pay for themselves. It sounds reasonable your request.. Please try talking to them, you may need to follow up a few times.
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I haven't done specifically that but the way the law is written I must pay wsib to be able to work for other contractors. But I must pay that on ALL my invoices whether for a homeowner or not.

The problem is my work travels through many ridings. And I dont even work in the riding I live or where my shop is located. So I'm to little for anyone to care.

I used to have exemption, but once the law changed that changed as well. There isn't enough being affected for the government to care. If I never worked for contractors I wouldnt have to pay wsib. But because I do work for 2 I must pay 10.25% on all my labour.

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peterm15 said:
I haven't done specifically that but the way the law is written I must pay wsib to be able to work for other contractors. But I must pay that on ALL my invoices whether for a homeowner or not.

The problem is my work travels through many ridings. And I dont even work in the riding I live or where my shop is located. So I'm to little for anyone to care.

I used to have exemption, but once the law changed that changed as well. There isn't enough being affected for the government to care. If I never worked for contractors I wouldnt have to pay wsib. But because I do work for 2 I must pay 10.25% on all my labour.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
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What about the possibility of forming a formal corporation? Then you could be an employee of your own corporation. Perhaps the rules and taxation of a corporation would be different then?

Not talking a sole proprietorship but an actual inc. with separate assets and tax return.
 
Sunspark said:
What about the possibility of forming a formal corporation? Then you could be an employee of your own corporation. Perhaps the rules and taxation of a corporation would be different then?

Not talking a sole proprietorship but an actual inc. with separate assets and tax return.
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The WSIB cracked down on any and all loopholes. If you pay for labour, they take a cut, period. Right now construction businesses are in the shitter, especially small contractors and trades. The taxation is just brutal... my company is in a 9% bracket, I literally give the WSIB well over $20,000 every year, and I'm FAR from rich. 20 frickin thousand dollars a year, my god.. what I could do with that money. Nobody gives a ****. It's a goddamn racket.
 
^ whoa that sounds terrible. Is that way out of line compared to other provinces? When did it get so high? Do you have any claims? I'd like to get more educated about it.


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Does nothing for those of us in various levels of commercial or large residential project construction. I've had several million dollars of all kinds of liability and personal/corporate insurance for years, paid for out of pocket to State Farm, to cover my own ***. Then the WSIB effectively became mandatory.... well, the level of protection they provide is absolute GARBAGE compared to the kinds of insurance I pay for voluntarily... and they cost 100x more. Not just this, but I've had 2 friends who legitimately hurt themselves on the job and they said getting anything out of the WSIB was like pulling teeth.

So not only do these mother ****ing scumbag leeches take the employer for everything he's got, they also fight tooth and nail to avoid paying anything to those who get hurt at work. Just brutal.. and nobody on the outside knows about this stuff, or cares. Gets my blood boiling just thinking about it.

^ whoa that sounds terrible. Is that way out of line compared to other provinces? When did it get so high? Do you have any claims? I'd like to get more educated about it.
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Asking me? Zero claims. Never so much as a scratch. They put you in a % bracket based on the work you do... in my case, its 9%. Other trades (roofers for example, I believe) have it even worse.
 
Wait, would the liability insurance you had compensated one of your workers if he got injured?


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