Privatize LCBO

[imnothng]

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So if people don't think they should sell the LCBO (don't forget what those letters stand for) because it makes so much money, should the government start selling tobacco as well? They will make a ton of money, how about cookies, or chips, or whatever other thing makes money.

The government should be in the business of caring and working for its citizens, not selling drugs.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

So if people don't think they should sell the LCBO (don't forget what those letters stand for) because it makes so much money, should the government start selling tobacco as well? They will make a ton of money, how about cookies, or chips, or whatever other thing makes money.

The government should be in the business of caring and working for its citizens, not selling drugs.

The government can still make money and invest it in offering services without raising taxes. Even the US pet - the fascist dictator Pinochet kept Codelco (nationalized copper mining concern) around and used the profits to run the government - remember, that guy swings right of the Republicans. I'd rather see our government get involved in resources, but the LCBO is making money and we need it. Otherwise the Albertans will ***** about larger transfer payments that we will be taking.

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

LCBO like all government agencies lose money in turn costing more for the province. Which in turn costs us in higher taxes and fees. Higher fees and taxes (aka Inflation) drives companies out of business and to Asia.

LCBO has not made money in 20 years. Time to let the private sector into this monopoly.
Air Canada, VIA, and Postal Service (and now GM/Chrysler) has not made a dime for the country.

Private companies compete and drive down costs for the consumer.

Do you really think a private company will pass on the savings to the consumer? Keep dreaming they will pocked it.

 

[Fiery254]

LCBO like all government agencies lose money in turn costing more for the province. Which in turn costs us in higher taxes and fees. Higher fees and taxes (aka Inflation) drives companies out of business and to Asia.

LCBO has not made money in 20 years. Time to let the private sector into this monopoly.
Air Canada, VIA, and Postal Service (and now GM/Chrysler) has not made a dime for the country.

Private companies compete and drive down costs for the consumer.

Private companies can also pack up and move to Mexico, China or wherever they please. Some jobs need protecting. And theres an argument for saying that some LCBO employees would loose their jobs if this move happened. However the consumer would win and some job slack would be picked up by independant distributors, transport companies, stores and resellers, all of whom would pay tax.

It's always been a mystery to me, as a 10 year noob in Canada, why booze sales are the way they are when there's no underlying ussue for the Government to be protecting consumers from. I mean, what part of true government is making someone pay $15 for a bottle of wine which is available in the US for $6?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Private companies can also pack up and move to Mexico, China or wherever they please. Some jobs need protecting. And theres an argument for saying that some LCBO employees would loose their jobs if this move happened. However the consumer would win and some job slack would be picked up by independant distributors, transport companies, stores and resellers, all of whom would pay tax.

It's always been a mystery to me, as a 10 year noob in Canada, why booze sales are the way they are when there's no underlying ussue for the Government to be protecting consumers from. I mean, what part of true government is making someone pay $15 for a bottle of wine which is available in the US for $6?

Prices will not be going down because taxes will stay the same or go up, every other province has had reduced selection and increased prices after privatizing.

 

[Fiery254]

Prices will not be going down because taxes will stay the same or go up, every other province has had reduced selection and increased prices after privatizing.

Of course prices will go down. The market will do that all on its own. Are you telling me that PC supermarket chain will maintain LCBO level pricing when Sobeys chain stores are 10% less? The tax element isn't what makes the price high. It's the artificially high purchase price, it's the ridiculous overhead involved in the purchase, distribution and selling of alcohol. It's the artificially high price alcohol is sold at. Like any government agency the LCBO is going to be over staffed. I can almost guarantee it. It is a licence to print money at the moment. Free market and competition has never driven prices higher.

 

[nfq]

Of course prices will go down. The market will do that all on its own. Are you telling me that PC supermarket chain will maintain LCBO level pricing when Sobeys chain stores are 10% less? The tax element isn't what makes the price high. It's the artificially high purchase price, it's the ridiculous overhead involved in the purchase, distribution and selling of alcohol. It's the artificially high price alcohol is sold at. Like any government agency the LCBO is going to be over staffed. I can almost guarantee it. It is a licence to print money at the moment. Free market and competition has never driven prices higher.

All we need is the liquor equivalent of the phone cartel of Bell & Rogers, then what?

 

[Fiery254]

All we need is the liquor equivalent of the phone cartel of Bell & Rogers, then what?

Holy crap. I quote one basic example of a free market and you're all running to the hills screaming useless analogies to yourselves. Try visiting Europe and see how things are there. Every corner shop sells booze. Every huge supermarket sells booz. Then there are specialty stores selling booze. They all run offers from time to time which means even cheaper booze. But no one sales organisation dominates or monopolises the market.

To set up in selling booze requires minimal investment (a licence and stock). To set up a mobile and landline phone network, a television broadcast empire and an internet service, all designed to cover the thick end of 3.8million square miles requires a little more investment than that. Are you really that stupid? try comparing eggs with eggs.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

LCBO like all government agencies lose money in turn costing more for the province. Which in turn costs us in higher taxes and fees. Higher fees and taxes (aka Inflation) drives companies out of business and to Asia.

LCBO has not made money in 20 years. Time to let the private sector into this monopoly.
Air Canada, VIA, and Postal Service (and now GM/Chrysler) has not made a dime for the country.

Private companies compete and drive down costs for the consumer.

where are you getting you're facts? It's been stated that the lobo has been profiting huge and that's why the cons want to sell it

air Canada was making money before they were forced to merge with a money losing private company unfortunately they never recovered. Petro Canada was making money (and still is but it's not Canadian any more), 407 was making money and it still is with profits leaving Canada

 

[nfq]

Holy crap. I quote one basic example of a free market and you're all running to the hills screaming useless analogies to yourselves. Try visiting Europe and see how things are there. Every corner shop sells booze. Every huge supermarket sells booz. Then there are specialty stores selling booze. They all run offers from time to time which means even cheaper booze. But no one sales organisation dominates or monopolises the market.

To set up in selling booze requires minimal investment (a licence and stock). To set up a mobile and landline phone network, a television broadcast empire and an internet service, all designed to cover the thick end of 3.8million square miles requires a little more investment than that. Are you really that stupid? try comparing eggs with eggs.

Easy there fella, I just tossed that out there. You said yourself you were a 10yr newbie to Canada.
And as for comparing eggs to eggs, you're the one comparing the system to Europe.

 

[nfq]

where are you getting you're facts? It's been stated that the lobo has been profiting huge and that's why the cons want to sell it

air Canada was making money before they were forced to merge with a money losing private company unfortunately they never recovered. Petro Canada was making money (and still is but it's not Canadian any more), 407 was making money and it still is with profits leaving Canada

The LCBO published operating costs are aggregative and, more important, cover control and wholesale costs as well as the costs of retail operations. However, prior to privatization the ALCB distribution costs for store deliveries were about 32 cents per case. Since privatization distribution costs have increased by 72%, to 55 cents per case, because of the increased number of shipments of smaller size to an increased number of small stores scattered throughout the province. This is an example of how economies-of-scale works in practice.

Some more reading about LCBO Privatization: http://www.yorku.ca/nuri/lcbo.htm

 

[Fiery254]

Easy there fella, I just tossed that out there. You said yourself you were a 10yr newbie to Canada.
And as for comparing eggs to eggs, you're the one comparing the system to Europe.

I'm comparing the process of selling booze with the process of selling booze. The next stage is for me to draw you a picture to help you understand. Primary colours okay?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Of course prices will go down. The market will do that all on its own. Are you telling me that PC supermarket chain will maintain LCBO level pricing when Sobeys chain stores are 10% less? The tax element isn't what makes the price high. It's the artificially high purchase price, it's the ridiculous overhead involved in the purchase, distribution and selling of alcohol. It's the artificially high price alcohol is sold at. Like any government agency the LCBO is going to be over staffed. I can almost guarantee it. It is a licence to print money at the moment. Free market and competition has never driven prices higher.

Except that it has in every Canadian province that has done it look it up. Most of the cost is tax. Delivery costs go up there are more layers and prices rise.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kool]

Except that it has in every Canadian province that has done it look it up. Most of the cost is tax. Delivery costs go up there are more layers and prices rise.

Correct sir...


Obviously fiery254 would put us in the red if he were running things.
Firing employees makin a modest wage... to hire minimum wage earners while filling the pockets of a single or couple individuals to the tune of millions if not billion dollars...is right? To save a few cents..?? Only to surpass the savings even if there was some is ridiculous.
Worse service...crummy stores...poor selection...more youngsters able to get booze...this is not better or cheaper in the long run.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Correct sir...


Obviously fiery254 would put us in the red if he were running things.
Firing employees makin a modest wage... to hire minimum wage earners while filling the pockets of a single or couple individuals to the tune of millions if not billion dollars...is right? To save a few cents..?? Only to surpass the savings even if there was some is ridiculous.
Worse service...crummy stores...poor selection...more youngsters able to get booze...this is not better or cheaper in the long run.

dont forget higher crime rates. when was the last time you heard about a lcbo being robbed at gun point? corner stores it happens often enough it's not really news. higher crime = more cops. more cops = more costs for policing...

I could concede a little and say beer and wine could be sold at corner stores (just like they do in quebec)....

also those complaining about the hours of availability, the corner stores in quebec and liquor stores in alberta still have set times of availability and they can't sell past that time either...

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

Some of you are such fear-mongers. Somehow privatization will be the cause of great unemployment, insane crime rates, drunk kids, etc etc... give me a break.

How about having a look at the rest of the world?

Hell, I had an easier time buying beer in Jakarta than I do here. They are mostly muslim, yet I could go into any convenience store at any time of the day or night and buy beer for a $1 or $2 a can.

I don't know why so many Canadians think that government needs to run everything or society will go to hell. How about letting adults be adults and make their own decisions? Government should get out of our lives and keep it simple - reduce government and you can reduce the amount of tax that needs to be taken in.

 

[Kool]

Grass ain't always greener on the other side. Not sayin booze distributed else where is bad or good, don't care or find it that important to get a beer at 1am... at 7/11. Think we have a half descent system here which has good clean well organized stores with pretty good employees runin the place. The govt makes tons of cash...it's freakin win win. Sure 100% some tweaking might be necessary, but to blow the whole thing up for what good reason? Later hours than 10pm so you can get your fix? Don't have anybody who can help you out?...lol. Privatizing booze is not a good idea for any of us...only the dude who scores the deal.

 

[short stop]

The only real issue I have with shopping at the LCBO are the hours. But even then, other than Sundays they're not that bad. There's the odd Sunday that would creep up on me, and I'd leave work looking forward to my six-pack and then pull up to a closed store. *sigh*

And that's when I'd pull into the Amterdan brewery store off Bathurst Street.

 

[crankcall]

LCBO hours are just fine, plan ahead a little people. If you cant keep a few in the cooler for tomorrow, the store hours aren't your issue. Put a couple bottles of red in the closet for unexpected guests.

Sure you can buy booze everywhere is Europe, I really like how the European economy is performing right now, I bought great wine for under 2E in Spain last year, just sayin....

Ther LCBO has a mandate for the minimum price a bottle of wine will be sold for in Ontario, regardless of the initial cost to the LCBO. This legislated price is designed to keep us from becoming drunks and probably would not go away with the privatization. The big difference would be the guy down my street would be owning a Liquor store and making a great wage and figuring out how to avoid as much tax as possible, not putting the tax dollars back to work in the province.

Scuba has outlined that every province that has privatized the industry has not seen better pricing or selection or service. Why screw it up here?

 

[nfq]

Some of you are such fear-mongers. Somehow privatization will be the cause of great unemployment, insane crime rates, drunk kids, etc etc... give me a break.

How about having a look at the rest of the world?

Hell, I had an easier time buying beer in Jakarta than I do here. They are mostly muslim, yet I could go into any convenience store at any time of the day or night and buy beer for a $1 or $2 a can.

I don't know why so many Canadians think that government needs to run everything or society will go to hell. How about letting adults be adults and make their own decisions? Government should get out of our lives and keep it simple - reduce government and you can reduce the amount of tax that needs to be taken in.

The problem isn't with the minority of responsible adults that actually go about their day and use their head to think. The issue is the vast majority of people that will act like a dog that's been let off a leash the first time. The Government doesn't need to run anything and i agree with you there, but in this scenario, the cost/benefit analysis is to keep the LCBO. The one thing I would strongly advocate is to get a third party auditor in there like PWC or Deloitte, and shake things up, cut the fat if you will.

They did it with finding $90 Million in over-spending at the school board just this morning.

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