Privatize LCBO

[Kool]

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Leave it as it is...works fine. The govt makes money...people have reasonable jobs...where it is sold is clean and somewhat organized and under age drinkers are at least curbed from gettiing at the booze somewhat.
We have lots of outlets ....totally not necessary. Let the corner stores sell mj when it becomes legal...lol.

 

[honduhmatic]

I doubt it'll happen. But I wouldn't mind if it did.

I lived in Calgary and the selection there wasn't much worse. Want a nice vintage wine? Go to a specialty wine store that specializes in it. How about fancy international beer? Same deal. The prices at the time there were cheaper, but I'm not sure currently.

I fully support taxing and generating revenue from booze since it has such a cost to society. However, you can tax booze without forcing an inefficient retail and wholesale monopoly on Ontario.

 

[LePhillou]

Keep LCBO's but make it accessible everywhere else... where's the problem with that?

There's still a huge selection of wines in Quebec in the SAQ's. They have the
SAQ classic (with varying hours and a good selection),
SAQ express (that are open from 10-10 everyday of the week and have a smaller selection) and then the
SAQ selection (that have the fancier stuff).

Otherwise if you need booze you can get some until 11 at night at your corner store or grocery store without having to worry that your LCBO might be closed.
Government can still tax, or distribute to those other corner/grocery stores to control pricing.
Other solutions, keeping only a certain selection available at LCBO and more mainstream stuff in stores.

 

[johnp]

....... I'd like to see first how he'd plan to make up for lost revenue. A one time sale of the LCBO isn't going to provide a constant source of revenue.

This.

Selling it would reduce the debt, a one time only gain. Taxes would have to go up to cover the loss of revenue.

Also there's opportunity for a successful bidder to make a fortune, so a huge incentive to line pockets during the bidding - which is a big driver.

 

[TwistedKestrel]

I think a big huge question to be asked is, if the LCBO is privatized, is the legalized monopoly still protected?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

As much as I like the idea of doing away with it, I'd like to see first how he'd plan to make up for lost revenue. A one time sale of the LCBO isn't going to provide a constant source of revenue.

Remember which party the suggestion is coming from.

Wasted thread.

Gov't will never give up a cash cow that is LCBO.

Next.

407 is a pretty nice cash cow and ask Hudak's but-buddy Mike if he has any regrets over giving it up.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

I don't understand why people think revenue will suddenly be lost if alcohol sales is privatized -- after all, the Beer Store is already a private operation.

The government could still easily charge tax on alcohol sales and have private sellers remit said tax. They could then get out of the alcohol sales business, sell all LCBO property, and have equal tax revenue with much lower costs. The benefit to consumers would be similar or same price (potentially lower with competition) but more convenience by having more locations to shop at and possibly more hours of operation.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

I don't understand why people think revenue will suddenly be lost if alcohol sales is privatized -- after all, the Beer Store is already a private operation.

The government could still easily charge tax on alcohol sales and have private sellers remit said tax. They could then get out of the alcohol sales business, sell all LCBO property, and have equal tax revenue with much lower costs. The benefit to consumers would be similar or same price (potentially lower with competition) but more convenience by having more locations to shop at and possibly more hours of operation.

You have profits from sales plus the taxes. The lcbo isn't selling liquor at cut rate prices and then taxes on top.

The beer store has always been a private operation so it's profits never went to the province, it went to brewers retail aka the beer store which is owned by the beer companies. So the revenue was never the provinces in the first place, just the taxes. Profit goes to beer companies, taxes go to gvt. With the lcbo the profit and the taxes go to the government and if the lcbo is privatized the profit (1.6 billion a year) goes to some rich guy(s) and the taxes still remain in Ontario. So what does Ontario do to make up for the short fall?

As for Ontario government having the right to provide retail sales, after prohibition alcohol was still a controlled substance. Also the government is a business, it is in the business of providing services. There is no reason why services such as selling controlled substances can not be provided by the government.

as for selection, when you want a specialty imported beer (two favourites that comes to mind is hobgoblin and Guinness) you go to the liquor store and not the beer store. The beer store is as big as the liquor stores, yet I'm going to the liquor store for my beer. Lets end the monopoly the beer store has first.

another problem with privatizing the lcbo is crime.


Lets not kill the golden goose

 

[unL33T]

I like it from the aspect that booze would probably be cheaper but as far as making money for the government goes, it would be really dumb of them to get rid of it.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

I like it from the aspect that booze would probably be cheaper but as far as making money for the government goes, it would be really dumb of them to get rid of it.

But booze wouldn't be cheaper. Booze is/was cheaper in Alberta/USA because of taxes. The underlying cost is still the same. If anything booze will be more expensive. Look at anything the government privatized in Ontario -electricity, 407, are two that come to mind. We are paying way more now for both.

 

[rich6969]

Keep LCBO's but make it accessible everywhere else... where's the problem with that?

There's still a huge selection of wines in Quebec in the SAQ's. They have the
SAQ classic (with varying hours and a good selection),
SAQ express (that are open from 10-10 everyday of the week and have a smaller selection) and then the
SAQ selection (that have the fancier stuff).

Otherwise if you need booze you can get some until 11 at night at your corner store or grocery store without having to worry that your LCBO might be closed.
Government can still tax, or distribute to those other corner/grocery stores to control pricing.
Other solutions, keeping only a certain selection available at LCBO and more mainstream stuff in stores.

agree 100%...this ^^^^ this is a smart move

 

[LePhillou]

But booze wouldn't be cheaper. Booze is/was cheaper in Alberta/USA because of taxes. The underlying cost is still the same. If anything booze will be more expensive. Look at anything the government privatized in Ontario -electricity, 407, are two that come to mind. We are paying way more now for both.

We can't compare the US though. Its not because of taxes that the 1 litre is cheaper than our 26 oz here... i think it has more to do with the giganormous buying power of the states.

LCBO could be the main provider yes, but make it available at other locations!
Just like they started doing wine racks in grocery stores, well make them better! And get some beer in there!
I miss my cheap 2-4 from Quebec though, paying $20-30 for it is the right thing to do ahah, whenever i drive down there, i bring 1 or 2 back!

 

[Shaman]

If they tax it the same then they should make similar profits but they open up the competition............ to me.

I'd definitely start up a certain type of vertical market alcohol store.

 

[rich6969]

i love this place...http://www.drinkowl.com/retail/ca/beer-store/qyl10hk1/rockton-berry-farm

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

When I was in Europe. You could buy beer and etc anywhere. It's successful there because the government didn't get involved in it in the first place.

Good idea? Bad idea?
The 407 was sold off, look how well that turned out.

 

[ViperZ]

Reminds me of a Soviet Union. You could only get booze at specific stores, prices and quantities tightly controlled by the government.

In the States you can freely go even into a 24/7 supermarket and pick up your booze. Somehow that economic and social model works. Wow, right?!

 

[honduhmatic]

But booze wouldn't be cheaper. Booze is/was cheaper in Alberta/USA because of taxes. The underlying cost is still the same. If anything booze will be more expensive. Look at anything the government privatized in Ontario -electricity, 407, are two that come to mind. We are paying way more now for both.

I think there are some fixed costs, both in supply cost and in taxes, if the gov't were to recoup its revenue there.

I still think there is some consumer savings to be had from a better business than the LCBO. We are talking about a large retail organization that has selective hours, pays its' unionized staff a lot to work there and pays producers more than the asking/contract price for the goods! I'd imagine it has a large, expensive administration as well.

Don't want to sound like Rob Ford here (I'm not that fat) but I think there's some operational efficiencies to be gained by privatization. By cutting some of these things, I bet we'd get lower booze price and good revenue via tax.

Of course there's analysis and a pro/con to be done here.

Either way, to pay for the car accidents, social assistance, health care costs and police staffing caused in its' name, I fully support taxation and government revenue recovery off of booze.

 

[SunnY S]

If they got rid of the LCBO, then we'd lose all those awesome free Food and Drink magazines!

 

[SunnY S]

I miss my cheap 2-4 from Quebec though, paying $20-30 for it is the right thing to do ahah, whenever i drive down there, i bring 1 or 2 back!

Yep, its my custom to hit up the nearest Costco Quebec to load up on some CoorsLight for cheap.

Screw Ontario beer store.

 

[daught]

We are talking about a large retail organization that has selective hours, pays its' unionized staff a lot to work there and pays producers more than the asking/contract price for the goods! I'd imagine it has a large, expensive administration as well.

Not necessarily a bad thing. Paying some Ontario producers more than the cutthroat rate keeps people working. I rather have them working than sitting on welfare.
I was reading most of their staff is hired as "casual" workers. They get paid $13-$14. It's very hard to even move up to part time where you get paid ~$20. Is that really too much? Does everyone expect everyone else to make minimum wage, except themselves? Do you really think a private company will pass on the savings to the consumer? Keep dreaming they will pocked it.

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