Pickup Trucks

mimico_polak said:
2025 Maverick now allows for AWD and 4k tow package to be included on the hybrid....depending on the final CAD pricing...may be tempted to swap the GTI out for one...

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I'll be interested to see where they end up on OTD price. When we were cross shopping the Maverick and Santa Cruz, every single review talked at length about how much cheaper the Maverick is. This made sense until we actually started pricing them out, and by the time you were done with the option packages, the pricing was essentially comparable, the Maverick was notably worse as a vehicle in a lot of areas, and Ford's financing rates were nowhere near Hyundai (7.5% vs 4.5%).

The only logic I could think was that the Maverick has been a good seller for Ford, so while they've kept the super low base price to get the punters in the door, they've jacked the optional pricing and made the basic versions almost impossible to get, which isn't an uncommon tactic.

(Incidentally, have been very happy with the Santa Cruz thus far. Goes really well when you put your foot in, but getting 9.1 l/100km taking it easy, which is better than planned. It's not a pickup, but it's useful. Have a weekend at Mikisew Provincial Park planned for late August, and we're renting an 18' travel trailer. Will be very curious how it does with that kind of load)
 
Priller said:
I'll be interested to see where they end up on OTD price. When we were cross shopping the Maverick and Santa Cruz, every single review talked at length about how much cheaper the Maverick is. This made sense until we actually started pricing them out, and by the time you were done with the option packages, the pricing was essentially comparable, the Maverick was notably worse as a vehicle in a lot of areas, and Ford's financing rates were nowhere near Hyundai (7.5% vs 4.5%).

The only logic I could think was that the Maverick has been a good seller for Ford, so while they've kept the super low base price to get the punters in the door, they've jacked the optional pricing and made the basic versions almost impossible to get, which isn't an uncommon tactic.

(Incidentally, have been very happy with the Santa Cruz thus far. Goes really well when you put your foot in, but getting 9.1 l/100km taking it easy, which is better than planned. It's not a pickup, but it's useful. Have a weekend at Mikisew Provincial Park planned for late August, and we're renting an 18' travel trailer. Will be very curious how it does with that kind of load)
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Agreed...the initial price is only one aspect. The next is the dealerships that are adding their magic 'required' options to juice up the price and profit margins even more.

Although I am hearing of many issues with the hybrid variant, and also the EB apparently has some issues...but you need to take the good with the bad.

If they priced the used versions well I'd already have one. Hopefully with this new upgrade the current gen will drop in price a bit.

Hybrid, 2k towing is enough for me...but hybrid with 4k towing and AWD would def be a nicer feature. The Escape has it (not sure about 4k towing but AWD+HYBRID) so they already had the tech as it's the same platform.

Saw a Santa Cruz yesterday...nice car/truck/CUV...reminds me of the Subaru BAJA.
 
mimico_polak said:
Agreed...the initial price is only one aspect. The next is the dealerships that are adding their magic 'required' options to juice up the price and profit margins even more.

Although I am hearing of many issues with the hybrid variant, and also the EB apparently has some issues...but you need to take the good with the bad.

If they priced the used versions well I'd already have one. Hopefully with this new upgrade the current gen will drop in price a bit.

Hybrid, 2k towing is enough for me...but hybrid with 4k towing and AWD would def be a nicer feature. The Escape has it (not sure about 4k towing but AWD+HYBRID) so they already had the tech as it's the same platform.

Saw a Santa Cruz yesterday...nice car/truck/CUV...reminds me of the Subaru BAJA.
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Not sure if real, but look pretty nice.. But no more rear facing external seats..
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mimico_polak said:
Agreed...the initial price is only one aspect. The next is the dealerships that are adding their magic 'required' options to juice up the price and profit margins even more.

Although I am hearing of many issues with the hybrid variant, and also the EB apparently has some issues...but you need to take the good with the bad.

If they priced the used versions well I'd already have one. Hopefully with this new upgrade the current gen will drop in price a bit.

Hybrid, 2k towing is enough for me...but hybrid with 4k towing and AWD would def be a nicer feature. The Escape has it (not sure about 4k towing but AWD+HYBRID) so they already had the tech as it's the same platform.

Saw a Santa Cruz yesterday...nice car/truck/CUV...reminds me of the Subaru BAJA.
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Wait, wait, wait a bit for the best in a 2025.......

Rumor has it that the Acura MDX and the Ridgeline Hybrid might share a hybrid drivetrain. This powertrain's electric motor and 3.0 liter V6 engine combine to produce 320 hp.
 
Gary said:
Wait, wait, wait a bit for the best in a 2025.......

Rumor has it that the Acura MDX and the Ridgeline Hybrid might share a hybrid drivetrain. This powertrain's electric motor and 3.0 liter V6 engine combine to produce 320 hp.
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What would MSRP on a Honda hybrid be? I am thinking at least 10K more than the Ford/Hyundai. It may be better but it will be a big step in cost.
 
GreyGhost said:
What would MSRP on a Honda hybrid be? I am thinking at least 10K more than the Ford/Hyundai. It may be better but it will be a big step in cost.
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10k? I'd be expecting at least 20k if not more nowadays...the 10k will be the standard drivetrain, not the hybrid.

Actually I forgot to ask my buddy how he likes his Ridgeline. He brought it to the golf tournament last night.
 
GreyGhost said:
What would MSRP on a Honda hybrid be? I am thinking at least 10K more than the Ford/Hyundai. It may be better but it will be a big step in cost.
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Who cares? Whatever the "over & above" cost is......it's worth it.
(think time in the shop for recalls & problems).
Also. The honda is better equipped. I'll be one of the first to own one when it's available.
 
Gary said:
Who cares? Whatever the "over & above" cost is......it's worth it.
(think time in the shop for recalls & problems).
Also. The honda is better equipped. I'll be one of the first to own one when it's available.
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Hybrids & EV's also spend time in shops for recalls & problems... Maybe be the first to buy the 2nd years production..
 
GreyGhost said:
What would MSRP on a Honda hybrid be? I am thinking at least 10K more than the Ford/Hyundai. It may be better but it will be a big step in cost.
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Yep. The current Black model (the one a Honda salesman told me is most of what they actually sell, wait times for the base Sport are close to a year) gets to to $60k with a few options and accessories very easily, so knowing Honda's pricing structure, I'd expect a hybrid to only be available in upper trim levels and will be dangerously close to $70k.

Granted, it's a lot more actual truck than the Santa Cruz and Maverick, and sort of slots into the 'truck' spectrum above the Maverick and under the Ranger. In the current model, the design and tech feels about 5 years behind the competition, but that will probably end up with better reliability long-term.

Gary said:
Who cares? Whatever the "over & above" cost is......it's worth it.
(think time in the shop for recalls & problems).
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It's only worth it if a) you plan to keep it for 10+ years, and b) you need that much bigger of a cab and bed. It's actually worse than the Santa Cruz at towing (especially at altitude due to the NA motor), is a lot slower, and gets worse real-world mileage (by about 2 l/100km). The flip side is that motor and drivetrain have been around forever, though that's no longer true if you get the hybrid.

Also, the spare tire is in a clever spot if you don't haul, but potentially disastrous if you do...

Gary said:
Also. The honda is better equipped.
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Not sure what you mean by this. Both the Ford and Hyundai offer a lot more tech and options for less, and what they do offer works better. Believe me, I just switched from Honda to Hyundai, and Hyundai's tech is a long, long way ahead.
 
Evoex said:
The Santa Cruz only makes sense if you don't need a 'real' bed. Which is a shame, because it checks almost every other box, imo.
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I don't want to come across as getting defensive because it's the one I bought, as everyone's use case is different and it's definitely the least 'trucky' of vehicles available with a bed. If you need to haul pallets or large loads, you need a 'real' truck with a ladder frame anyway.

That said, if you remove the (included) roll-up tonneau cover, the bed is more or less identical to the Maverick, with only an inch or so difference in any direction. The Ridgeline is just over a foot longer and 6" wider. That's not insignificant, but my experience us unless you have a true long box, you'll always find situations where the bed is too small. When I had my last F-150, it only had a 5.5' box (and a massive cab), and I was forever cursing that it wasn't long enough. The cargo weight capacity on the Santa Cruz is broadly identical if not better than all, too, including the F-150.

In my experience, the size issue is usually more with long things (and usually building supplies), so unless it's really long (over 8', really) then the difference between a 52" long bed and a 66" bed isn't practically that meaningful. This is especially true as the Santa Cruz has the ability to lift the tailgate to match the height of the wheel wells, so 4x8 sheets etc. fit with no issue. None shy of a 6.5' box is long enough to comfortably carry a motorcycle anyway (and even that needs a bed extender), and that's what's really important!

Where I'd say the bigger compromise with the Hyundai sits (no pun etc.) is in the back seat, which is not big, especially compared to the limo-like accommodations in the F-150. The Honda definitely doesn't feel as cramped, though the Maverick is pretty crap back there as well.

One point I'll make in the Ridgeline's favour is the 'brunk' is absolutely massive, and it solves an issue I've always had with pickups: where to neatly keep all the loose crap that stays in the vehicle (first aid kit, safety boots/harness/hardhat/vest, umbrella/rain coat, battery boost, tire pump, bottled water, reusable shopping bags, etc.) without it cluttering up the cab. It was a big issue in the F-150, with way too much stuff ending up in a bin in the bed. The Santa Cruz brunk is much smaller than the Honda's, but I've managed to squeeze everything above in.

All of this is particular to my experience and needs, though. Everyone's situation is different...
 
Priller said:
I don't want to come across as getting defensive because it's the one I bought, as everyone's use case is different and it's definitely the least 'trucky' of vehicles available with a bed. If you need to haul pallets or large loads, you need a 'real' truck with a ladder frame anyway.

That said, if you remove the (included) roll-up tonneau cover, the bed is more or less identical to the Maverick, with only an inch or so difference in any direction. The Ridgeline is just over a foot longer and 6" wider. That's not insignificant, but my experience us unless you have a true long box, you'll always find situations where the bed is too small. When I had my last F-150, it only had a 5.5' box (and a massive cab), and I was forever cursing that it wasn't long enough. The cargo weight capacity on the Santa Cruz is broadly identical if not better than all, too, including the F-150.

In my experience, the size issue is usually more with long things (and usually building supplies), so unless it's really long (over 8', really) then the difference between a 52" long bed and a 66" bed isn't practically that meaningful. This is especially true as the Santa Cruz has the ability to lift the tailgate to match the height of the wheel wells, so 4x8 sheets etc. fit with no issue. None shy of a 6.5' box is long enough to comfortably carry a motorcycle anyway (and even that needs a bed extender), and that's what's really important!

Where I'd say the bigger compromise with the Hyundai sits (no pun etc.) is in the back seat, which is not big, especially compared to the limo-like accommodations in the F-150. The Honda definitely doesn't feel as cramped, though the Maverick is pretty crap back there as well.

One point I'll make in the Ridgeline's favour is the 'brunk' is absolutely massive, and it solves an issue I've always had with pickups: where to neatly keep all the loose crap that stays in the vehicle (first aid kit, safety boots/harness/hardhat/vest, umbrella/rain coat, battery boost, tire pump, bottled water, reusable shopping bags, etc.) without it cluttering up the cab. It was a big issue in the F-150, with way too much stuff ending up in a bin in the bed. The Santa Cruz brunk is much smaller than the Honda's, but I've managed to squeeze everything above in.

All of this is particular to my experience and needs, though. Everyone's situation is different...
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isnt the front of the bed kinda wonky? i thought i recalled something sticking out...? maybe that was the tonneau cover

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yeah i guess it was, if it is removable then i would say the bed is improved...but can you fit an S1000RR there for track duty?
 
Evoex said:
isnt the front of the bed kinda wonky? i thought i recalled something sticking out...? maybe that was the tonneau cover
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The standard sliding roll-up tonneau cover definitely takes up a chunk of the top quarter of the bed volume (and the front of the bed is slightly tilted back to allow for some recline in the back seats, but that's only an inch or two). I considered removing it, but it's so damn useful for daily use that I've left it in. Some remove it and replace the cover with a fabric roll-up cover, but until I come across a scenario where I need to remove the tonneau cover because I have a load that won't fit including the bed extender, I'm going to leave it. If I had a complaint, it's that removing the cover takes a few steps. If they held it in place with pins or made it quick-release, that would have been awesome.
 
Priller said:
The standard sliding roll-up tonneau cover definitely takes up a chunk of the top quarter of the bed volume (and the front of the bed is slightly tilted back to allow for some recline in the back seats, but that's only an inch or two). I considered removing it, but it's so damn useful for daily use that I've left it in. Some remove it and replace the cover with a fabric roll-up cover, but until I come across a scenario where I need to remove the tonneau cover because I have a load that won't fit including the bed extender, I'm going to leave it. If I had a complaint, it's that removing the cover takes a few steps. If they held it in place with pins or made it quick-release, that would have been awesome.
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If it's too easy to remove, some dirtbag would steal it while parked.
 
Evoex said:
can you fit an S1000RR there for track duty?
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100% no. But I'd say the same for even the 5.5' bed F-150, personally. Much better to get a cheap utility trailer (or Stinger if storage space is at a premium), which will also be infinitely easier to load and unload. Honda sells a motorcycle-specific bed extender for the Ridgeline, but the actual dimensions are tough to come by and between the truck and the extender, it would have been a lot to spend to discover it didn't fit! I'm also not a huge fan of loading a tailgate for long durations that way, though Honda claim theirs is extra beefy.

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Having done both, as I did a lot of trackdays without a trailer loading a bike into the back of a Tacoma, I infinitely prefer the trailer option and would go that way even if I had a bed big enough. You get the bed back for other stuff (sun tent, chairs, table, chocks, tools, fuel, sweaty gear, and on and on), and it's way easier to load and unload. Plus, with a decent utility trailer, you can easily put two bikes in and go with a buddy, which isn't an option in a truck bed.

There is a guy on the Santa Cruz subreddit that recently drove a Triumph Bonneville across the US in the bed of his, but this is asking for trouble:

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Priller said:
100% no. But I'd say the same for even the 5.5' bed F-150, personally. Much better to get a cheap utility trailer (or Stinger if storage space is at a premium), which will also be infinitely easier to load and unload. Honda sells a motorcycle-specific bed extender for the Ridgeline, but the actual dimensions are tough to come by and between the truck and the extender, it would have been a lot to spend to discover it didn't fit! I'm also not a huge fan of loading a tailgate for long durations that way, though Honda claim theirs is extra beefy.

View attachment 69051
Having done both, as I did a lot of trackdays without a trailer loading a bike into the back of a Tacoma, I infinitely prefer the trailer option and would go that way even if I had a bed big enough. You get the bed back for other stuff (sun tent, chairs, table, chocks, tools, fuel, sweaty gear, and on and on), and it's way easier to load and unload. Plus, with a decent utility trailer, you can easily put two bikes in and go with a buddy, which isn't an option in a truck bed.

There is a guy on the Santa Cruz subreddit that recently drove a Triumph Bonneville across the US in the bed of his, but this is asking for trouble:

View attachment 69052
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I'm with you for tailgate loading. If I was going to transport a bike often I'd make sure I had support from the hitch up to the end of the tailgate (maybe a plate under the wheel so you don't touch the paint?). At least then much of the load is in the hitch (rated for 750 lbs tongue weight but support has leverage so transferring down a few hundred pounds is probably fine).
 
GreyGhost said:
I'm with you for tailgate loading. If I was going to transport a bike often I'd make sure I had support from the hitch up to the end of the tailgate (maybe a plate under the wheel so you don't touch the paint?). At least then much of the load is in the hitch (rated for 750 lbs tongue weight but support has leverage so transferring down a few hundred pounds is probably fine).
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I would probably cut out a 3/4" piece of plywood to put under the entire bike to just distribute the load a bit better.

But for me, currently without a truck, I'm just talking out of my ***.
 
mimico_polak said:
I would probably cut out a 3/4" piece of plywood to put under the entire bike to just distribute the load a bit better.

But for me, currently without a truck, I'm just talking out of my ***.
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I'm less concerned with buckling the tailgate than I am with a strap (or I guess powered strut nowadays) breaking and the tailgate dropping. If you are worried about buckling, a piece of wide leg angle would spread the load better across the gate.
 
Priller said:
I'll be interested to see where they end up on OTD price. When we were cross shopping the Maverick and Santa Cruz, every single review talked at length about how much cheaper the Maverick is. This made sense until we actually started pricing them out, and by the time you were done with the option packages, the pricing was essentially comparable, the Maverick was notably worse as a vehicle in a lot of areas, and Ford's financing rates were nowhere near Hyundai (7.5% vs 4.5%).

The only logic I could think was that the Maverick has been a good seller for Ford, so while they've kept the super low base price to get the punters in the door, they've jacked the optional pricing and made the basic versions almost impossible to get, which isn't an uncommon tactic.

(Incidentally, have been very happy with the Santa Cruz thus far. Goes really well when you put your foot in, but getting 9.1 l/100km taking it easy, which is better than planned. It's not a pickup, but it's useful. Have a weekend at Mikisew Provincial Park planned for late August, and we're renting an 18' travel trailer. Will be very curious how it does with that kind of load)
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When I ordered the AWD 2.0 turbo XL Maverick the wait time was the same for all models, the Mexico plant couldn't keep up - 8 months.
That may be better now.
The only ones you find on the dealer lots are fully pimped, but I think that goes for just about anything.
2,000 lb. towing capacity is plenty for me, I'm getting 9.9L/100kms no matter how I drive (old man mode).
With the tailgate down I've got almost 6 feet - fit a friend's Ducati Monster in it no problem.
Yes, I wouldn't want to haul across Canada that way but from Collingwood to Toronto it was just fine.
Your results may differ...
 
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