Harper screwed him either way. The other option would be to cancel the contract. Loose millions in penalty fees. Loose millions into the local jobs market. The same people complaining about hypocrisy would be complaining if he cancelled it and lost jobs and money. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Ontario is no longer the place to prosper
- Thread starter Delboy
- Start date
Harper screwed him either way. The other option would be to cancel the contract. Loose millions in penalty fees. Loose millions into the local jobs market. The same people complaining about hypocrisy would be complaining if he cancelled it and lost jobs and money. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
If it was not for 2 kids of other parents who we are raising, hubby and I would be long gone
Honesty offends fools
Honesty offends fools
Stopped off for a little breakfast
Ah, brings back memories. Do they still have the Redneck Benedict? I feel a road trip coming on. Warm up damn you!!!!
He didn't have to take the job but he did and he has it. Its a little late for him to start whining about it now.
Same old story from ANY politician regardless of party. Its always the previous guys fault.
I always thought all this **** was caused by Sir John A. McDonald. What a twat he was
Seriously though. I was having a chat with my inlaws and their take on the mess in Ontario is that Wynne is only trying to fix the problems left behind by Bob Rae and Mike Harris. WTF!!! Talk about being out of touch with reality. Bob Rae must have got kicked out of office 20 years ago.
Your in laws aren't completely wrong. Some of this crap does go back 2 decades or more. Deals with unions that are pretty favorable , for the union, sad management of public utilities, remember Ontario Hydro? The never ending scandals on housing, unemployment fraud and the introduction of unfair regulation that is just a profit center.
A crappy provincial gov't is not new, however the current collection are setting the bar pretty high for f'ups. The lack of transparency in the current gov't is frightening. Shredded documents anyone?
A crappy provincial gov't is not new, however the current collection are setting the bar pretty high for f'ups. The lack of transparency in the current gov't is frightening. Shredded documents anyone?
dragonrider
Well-known member
That's bull. No one can do worse than Wynn's government. I despise this government buy despise even more the stupids who votes her in. What a bunch ********.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The situation is so bad that anyone competent enough to understand it recognizes the futility of trying to fix it and doesn't want the loss on their resume.
They buy votes. If someone comes and offers you a few more thousand a year to vote for them you would probably take it too. They are trying to buy the student vote right now by making their tuition free. They don't realize these things have a real cost.
Most business (large and small) don't want to do business in Ontario. We will turn into Michigan soon ... very soon.
Most business (large and small) don't want to do business in Ontario. We will turn into Michigan soon ... very soon.
The tuition fee is mostly paid for (in theory) as they are getting rid of the tax credit for secondary and moving it the tuition. So it goes from something everyone gets to something that just the lower income brackets get (probably a lot let due to the anemic barrier for entry. )
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
It's all crap and will remain so until there is some form of accountability.
Every politician says "well, we didn't realize what state the economy was in when we made promise X, Y, Z" etc.
That's pure junk - books are open to anyone interested.
Every single politician defrauds the populace in massive fashion - doesn't matter which party it is in power.
Simply make the leaders accountable. You defraud the people? You go to jail.
How should they be different than anyone else?
Lie their faces off to get the votes and do what they want.
We do that, we're in JAIL. They do it, "shrug" - oh well.
Every politician says "well, we didn't realize what state the economy was in when we made promise X, Y, Z" etc.
That's pure junk - books are open to anyone interested.
Every single politician defrauds the populace in massive fashion - doesn't matter which party it is in power.
Simply make the leaders accountable. You defraud the people? You go to jail.
How should they be different than anyone else?
Lie their faces off to get the votes and do what they want.
We do that, we're in JAIL. They do it, "shrug" - oh well.
+1. It's a complete cluster ****. Where would you even start to fix this mess
There are two options, neither of which will happen.
1) A benevolent dictatorship. It will turn to violence in the street as the self entitled reject the loss of privilege. Businesses will suffer massive setbacks as people can no longer afford multi-latte days, boutique shoelaces etc. Pension plans will fail. There will be brain drain.
2) Education in the lines of reading and understanding "The Limits to Growth". We have to accept cut backs in our expectations. You cut back first.
Politicians make modest wages IMO if you only consider their base salaries. They top those up with special committee perks and bonuses. After serving two terms they can retire and make the big bucks as lobbyists and directors of corporations dealing with the government. It's not the meat, it's the gravy that makes them fat.
Snobike Mike
Banned
The "alarmists" are gonna may us pay:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...s-prices-5-a-month-to-natural-gas-bills-wynne
Coles: Cap and trade to cost you $4.3 cents more per litre and $5 per month on your natural gas bill.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...s-prices-5-a-month-to-natural-gas-bills-wynne
Coles: Cap and trade to cost you $4.3 cents more per litre and $5 per month on your natural gas bill.
You reap what you sow
Ontario electricity rates fastest rising in North America
BRADY YAUCH, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 04:13 PM EST | Updated: Monday, February 29, 2016 04:16 PM EST
It has been a bad nine years for electricity customers in Ontario.
Hydro prices for residential customers have increased at a faster rate than anywhere else in North America.
But you wouldn’t know it by listening to Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli, who said Ontario ratepayers are seeing power bills “increasing slower than they are in neighbouring jurisdictions.”
In fact, no typical residential customers in any of the 50 U.S. states or Canada’s nine other provinces have seen the price of power increase at a faster rate than Ontario customers.
In addition, hydro prices in Ontario have been going up three times faster than the price of other goods and services.
We examined the average price paid per kilowatt hour (kWh) for residential customers of a few of Ontario’s largest utilities — Hydro One, Toronto Hydro and Hydro Ottawa — after all fees, levies and other charges are included.
We then compared them to averages for all 50 U.S. states.
Collectively, Toronto Hydro, Hydro One and Hydro Ottawa account for nearly 50% of all household customers in Ontario.
Toronto Hydro’s residential customers now pay 72% more per kWh than they did in 2006 — marking the fastest increase in power prices anywhere in North America.
For Hydro One’s residential customers — divided into urban, semi-rural and rural rate classes — hydro prices have increased, on average, by 68% over the last nine years.
Hydro Ottawa residential customers pay 71% more per kilowatt than they did in 2006.
By contrast, the average increase in power prices for customers in the U.S. was 22%.
Not a single U.S. state or Canadian province has seen power prices increase as fast as Ontario’s over the past nine years.
While many electricity customers in the U.S. benefited from falling natural gas prices in the last year — which resulted in power prices falling or remaining the same for nearly one-third of U.S. ratepayers — some customers in Ontario saw prices increase as much as 11% compared to a year earlier.
Comparing the price increase of power to other goods, services and wages in Ontario over the past nine years paints a similarly grim picture.
Food and shelter costs have increased by 30% and 20%, respectively — far below the 70%-plus increases for many hydro customers.
Wages in Ontario have increased by only 25% over the last nine years.
The blame for the dramatic increase in power prices largely rests with the province, but poorly performing utilities share the blame.
The provincial government’s mishandling of the electricity sector has been detailed by the auditor general, who in her most recent report concluded Ontario’s energy planning process is “broken” and that elected officials have repeatedly ignored the advice of experts.
The result has been billions of dollars in unnecessary charges on hydro bills.
Meanwhile, electricity utilities, rather than looking for ways to become more efficient and productive, have instead applied to have billions of dollars in additional spending approved by the Ontario Energy Board.
Hydro One wanted to hike customer charges by more than 6% a year, yet its own evidence showed its employees were overpaid compared to other companies and it was ranked as one of the least reliable distributors in North America.
Toronto Hydro’s costs are significantly higher than other utilities across Ontario and North America, yet it wanted to increase rates by 8% annually to finance a record capital spending program.
Ontario’s energy minister may try to convince power customers in this province that it’s worse elsewhere, but the numbers tell a different story. ARTICLE
Ontario electricity rates fastest rising in North America
BRADY YAUCH, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Monday, February 29, 2016 04:13 PM EST | Updated: Monday, February 29, 2016 04:16 PM EST
It has been a bad nine years for electricity customers in Ontario.
Hydro prices for residential customers have increased at a faster rate than anywhere else in North America.
But you wouldn’t know it by listening to Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli, who said Ontario ratepayers are seeing power bills “increasing slower than they are in neighbouring jurisdictions.”
In fact, no typical residential customers in any of the 50 U.S. states or Canada’s nine other provinces have seen the price of power increase at a faster rate than Ontario customers.
In addition, hydro prices in Ontario have been going up three times faster than the price of other goods and services.
We examined the average price paid per kilowatt hour (kWh) for residential customers of a few of Ontario’s largest utilities — Hydro One, Toronto Hydro and Hydro Ottawa — after all fees, levies and other charges are included.
We then compared them to averages for all 50 U.S. states.
Collectively, Toronto Hydro, Hydro One and Hydro Ottawa account for nearly 50% of all household customers in Ontario.
Toronto Hydro’s residential customers now pay 72% more per kWh than they did in 2006 — marking the fastest increase in power prices anywhere in North America.
For Hydro One’s residential customers — divided into urban, semi-rural and rural rate classes — hydro prices have increased, on average, by 68% over the last nine years.
Hydro Ottawa residential customers pay 71% more per kilowatt than they did in 2006.
By contrast, the average increase in power prices for customers in the U.S. was 22%.
Not a single U.S. state or Canadian province has seen power prices increase as fast as Ontario’s over the past nine years.
While many electricity customers in the U.S. benefited from falling natural gas prices in the last year — which resulted in power prices falling or remaining the same for nearly one-third of U.S. ratepayers — some customers in Ontario saw prices increase as much as 11% compared to a year earlier.
Comparing the price increase of power to other goods, services and wages in Ontario over the past nine years paints a similarly grim picture.
Food and shelter costs have increased by 30% and 20%, respectively — far below the 70%-plus increases for many hydro customers.
Wages in Ontario have increased by only 25% over the last nine years.
The blame for the dramatic increase in power prices largely rests with the province, but poorly performing utilities share the blame.
The provincial government’s mishandling of the electricity sector has been detailed by the auditor general, who in her most recent report concluded Ontario’s energy planning process is “broken” and that elected officials have repeatedly ignored the advice of experts.
The result has been billions of dollars in unnecessary charges on hydro bills.
Meanwhile, electricity utilities, rather than looking for ways to become more efficient and productive, have instead applied to have billions of dollars in additional spending approved by the Ontario Energy Board.
Hydro One wanted to hike customer charges by more than 6% a year, yet its own evidence showed its employees were overpaid compared to other companies and it was ranked as one of the least reliable distributors in North America.
Toronto Hydro’s costs are significantly higher than other utilities across Ontario and North America, yet it wanted to increase rates by 8% annually to finance a record capital spending program.
Ontario’s energy minister may try to convince power customers in this province that it’s worse elsewhere, but the numbers tell a different story. ARTICLE
So much focus on percent increases. When a kWh costs 6-cents and the price rises to 12-cents it's a 100% increase and the optics look bad but in reality is still pretty ****ing cheap.
Compare absolute prices to other jurisdictions. In Dec/2015, the following rates were paid in parts of the US:
- New England avg. 18.87 c/kWh
- Mid-Atlantic avg. 15.71
- East North Central avg. 12.68
- Massachusetts avg. - 19.6
- New York avg. - 17.53
In Ontario, on-peak rates are 17.5, mid-peak rates are 12.8 and off-peak numbers are 8.3 cents. Our mid and off-peak numbers are pretty damn good and our peak rates not completely uncompetitive with our neighbors.
Be thankful you don't live in Europe: In 2011 a kWh cost 35 cents (US) in Germany. In Demark, 41.
Part of the reason why the Hydro system in Ontario is so ****ed is because for decades our parents and grandparents underpaid for electricity. It's like in those days they never factored in the cost of things like nuclear refurbs and transmission expansion and maintenance over the then-future decades and now the chickens have come home to roost, so to speak. I'm not intending to defend the feckless twats in the Liberal government here but am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt: The prices we're seeing now are more in line with the actual material cost than the piddling cents it used to be.
If our rates go to 30 or 40-cents per kWh we're going to be really screwed but if it continues to hang around what those in our immediate geographic locale are paying, we're doing okay.
Compare absolute prices to other jurisdictions. In Dec/2015, the following rates were paid in parts of the US:
- New England avg. 18.87 c/kWh
- Mid-Atlantic avg. 15.71
- East North Central avg. 12.68
- Massachusetts avg. - 19.6
- New York avg. - 17.53
In Ontario, on-peak rates are 17.5, mid-peak rates are 12.8 and off-peak numbers are 8.3 cents. Our mid and off-peak numbers are pretty damn good and our peak rates not completely uncompetitive with our neighbors.
Be thankful you don't live in Europe: In 2011 a kWh cost 35 cents (US) in Germany. In Demark, 41.
Part of the reason why the Hydro system in Ontario is so ****ed is because for decades our parents and grandparents underpaid for electricity. It's like in those days they never factored in the cost of things like nuclear refurbs and transmission expansion and maintenance over the then-future decades and now the chickens have come home to roost, so to speak. I'm not intending to defend the feckless twats in the Liberal government here but am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt: The prices we're seeing now are more in line with the actual material cost than the piddling cents it used to be.
If our rates go to 30 or 40-cents per kWh we're going to be really screwed but if it continues to hang around what those in our immediate geographic locale are paying, we're doing okay.
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
If only $0.175/kwh hour was what I actually paid.
If I take my last bill $97.34 total, and divide by the kwh used 448h, I get $0.22/kwh.
And I hardly use any on peak at all: 36h (8%) on peak, 84h (19%) mid peak, 328h (73%) off peak.
If I used more on-peak energy, I'd probably be much closer to 30 to 40 cents per kwh once you add delivery charges, regulatory fees, debt retirement charges, and taxes on to all of that.
If I take my last bill $97.34 total, and divide by the kwh used 448h, I get $0.22/kwh.
And I hardly use any on peak at all: 36h (8%) on peak, 84h (19%) mid peak, 328h (73%) off peak.
If I used more on-peak energy, I'd probably be much closer to 30 to 40 cents per kwh once you add delivery charges, regulatory fees, debt retirement charges, and taxes on to all of that.
The auditor generals report, follow the link to the pdf, on page 8 of the pdf(213 of the whole report), start at the summary.
AG Report
AG Report
