Occupy Bay street

[Gary]

Fair enough for the new yorkers but what does this have to do with us? Completely different country; completely different economic circumstances.

And exactly where was this protest 10 years ago? 20 years ago? Or are people only upset now that their economy has completely hit the crapper?

It seems to me that their gripe is with capitalism; the very fundamentals that North American society is built upon. Exactly what the hell is anybody going to do about this? And what solution, if any, are they proposing? Or are they just trying to get the government to do everything?

Isn't that what put them in this situation in the first place?

I honestly don't know what it has to do with Canada (us).
The econcomic circumstances are too intertwined to not make a comparason however.
If Canada didn't have the USA to ship exports to, the unemployment rate here would be high enough, that y'all might be out on Bay St too. Personally, I don't care - I'm retired. I fought / protested / demonstrated through several strikes to get 50% of what we thought we deserved.

10 or 20 yrs ago, there were fewer jobs being sent to Mexico / S.A / India / China etc. Maybe back then, more people had "hope" rather than the present state, of "no hope". I'm not sure, but it sounds logical when the voices in my head say it

You ask, "what are they going to do about it?"
Take a look on any news channel that has the balls to cover it. The demonstrations are in their infancy, don't forget. Maybe it will lead to nation wide, day long strikes - that proves as much as boycotting Esso, or Sunoco, but it's something. I'm sure you've seen, or been part of the viral email to "don't buy gas next Tuesday" or whatever?
That was a demonstration. Not very many participated, but it was to protest the high gas prices. No, I don't think it worked, but that's also a protest / demonstration in it's infancy.

On Bay St, if they start burning bacon haulers again, I'm not in favour of that, but it is what it is.
People aren't happy eating out of garbage bins, and there's more and more people resorting to it daily.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

It seems to me that their gripe is with capitalism; the very fundamentals that North American society is built upon. Exactly what the hell is anybody going to do about this? And what solution, if any, are they proposing? Or are they just trying to get the government to do everything?

Isn't that what put them in this situation in the first place?

I thought north american society was built on freedom from tyranny... you know religious and political oppression.

 

[Flashmonkey]

I honestly don't know what it has to do with Canada (us).
The econcomic circumstances are too intertwined to not make a comparason however.
If Canada didn't have the USA to ship exports to, the unemployment rate here would be high enough, that y'all might be out on Bay St too. Personally, I don't care - I'm retired. I fought / protested / demonstrated through several strikes to get 50% of what we thought we deserved.

10 or 20 yrs ago, there were fewer jobs being sent to Mexico / S.A / India / China etc. Maybe back then, more people had "hope" rather than the present state, of "no hope". I'm not sure, but it sounds logical when the voices in my head say it

You ask, "what are they going to do about it?"
Take a look on any news channel that has the balls to cover it. The demonstrations are in their infancy, don't forget. Maybe it will lead to nation wide, day long strikes - that proves as much as boycotting Esso, or Sunoco, but it's something. I'm sure you've seen, or been part of the viral email to "don't buy gas next Tuesday" or whatever?
That was a demonstration. Not very many participated, but it was to protest the high gas prices. No, I don't think it worked, but that's also a protest / demonstration in it's infancy.

On Bay St, if they start burning bacon haulers again, I'm not in favour of that, but it is what it is.
People aren't happy eating out of garbage bins, and there's more and more people resorting to it daily.

I can't argue with any of your points. This is definitely a global issue and the situation in the U.S is definitely out of control. I can't help but feel, though, that there's a fundamental lack of understanding behind these protests. I've seen some of the pictures of those people holding up the signs saying "Hi I'm so-and-so and I've been unemployed since 2008-or-whatever and I'm part of the 99%" and it's a little misguided. I mean, sure it's tough down there, but there's still a number of people out there who have jobs, and a percentage of those people are entrepeneurs who are actually succeeding despite the country's economic woes.

I have no idea where I'm going with this post, but there's something missing in all of this; a fundamental understanding that both the people and the government can't comprehend. While I do appreciate the protests and like the fact that the people are getting vocal about how crappy the situation is, it's one of those things where nobody knows what to do. There's no clear enemy here.

This makes even less sense up here because, as far as I can tell, the job market is still pretty good; despite the fact that the rest of the world seems to be on fire. Will this hold up? Who knows...but I don't think that we currently have the grounds to be as ****** off as everyone else. And I think the idiots who are attempting this on Bay street are just a bunch of idiot posers. :thumbup:

I thought north american society was built on freedom from tyranny... you know religious and political oppression.

Ya something to that effect. That whole capitalism thing is implied in there somewhere. The new world; the land of milk and honey where the sky's the limit and you can be your own success story and all that. I'm sure a lot of immigrants crossed the ocean to be free to seek out their own fortune without having to answer to a royal family or some kind of local regent.

 

[ABadjusterrider_5]

I also doubt that there is a difference in the numbers for the people on unemployment who can't find a job vs the people on unemployment because they don't want a job.

 

[short stop]

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...toronto-leaderless-unfocused-but-hopeful?bn=1

I think Flashmonkey's already hit the nail on the head, but it bears repeating: these are complicated times/issues, and there isn't one Evil Overlord sitting in a skyscraper on Bay street who will be overthrown by a group of protestors. I don't think anyone here is denying their *right* to protest, but that it all seems kind of silly. Yeah, people across the world are ****** off right now, but who exactly is there target? Who's mind are they trying to change? What issue are they realitically trying to shed light on? We all know that there's a worldwide recession (we've know that for the past 3 years).

Relatively speaking, Canada's holding up pretty well. This whole thing just smacks of university students/hippies jumping on the protest bandwagon so they can tell their grandkids about it.

 

[Gary]

Not to worry. After the election Thursday, Mcginty will be selling "protest licences". If you don't have one, you'll catch a fine.
It won't be called a "tax" though - just another licence fee.

 

[Flashmonkey]

Not to worry. After the election Thursday, Mcginty will be selling "protest licences". If you don't have one, you'll catch a fine.
It won't be called a "tax" though - just another licence fee.

Haha you're getting the feeling that he's gonna win too, eh? I thought it was just me.

Yup...time to buckle up and bend over.

 

[Gary]

I read some where that unemployment rates are based on how many people are collecting unemployment benefits, those that don't qualify aren't counted. they're not employed but they're not considered unemployed...

Very true. That's why I posted one of these doohickeys "~" at 15 - 20%.
One thing they don't advertise is how many are working 'under the table' as there's no way to tally the number of people who work like that - several of which could (and are) collecting unemployment benefits. Maybe all the numbers come out in the wash - no one knows for sure, but unemployment IS an issue, there's no doubt.

 

[Gary]

Haha you're getting the feeling that he's gonna win too, eh? I thought it was just me.

Yup...time to buckle up and bend over.

When I heard the 'unofficial' poll results on the news last night, I started to shudder, and began searching MLS listings in Kamloops & Kelona.

 

[Dohhh]

Very true. That's why I posted one of these doohickeys "~" at 15 - 20%.
One thing they don't advertise is how many are working 'under the table' as there's no way to tally the number of people who work like that - several of which could (and are) collecting unemployment benefits. Maybe all the numbers come out in the wash - no one knows for sure, but unemployment IS an issue, there's no doubt.

also how many people are unable to find full time work and work part time? and how many peoples unemployment benefits ran out?
the govt likes to skew stats just like everyone else

 

[D23]

There is nothing wrong with protesting something but I was always lead to believe that any time you have an issue and want to criticize something you are only validated if you also bring a solution, or at least a recommendation along with your complaint. Otherwise it's just a bunch of ******** crying because they aren't rich...

So what if 1% of the population worked their *** off to acquire wealth? Even if they were born into it and did nothing that's luck/fate or whatever you want to call it.

What I see is a bunch of losers who act like if they won $50 000 000 on the lotto they would give it all to the homeless. Like **** they would. They would join the elite and look down on the rest of society only making contributions if it ended up in their favor come tax time.

Time for a million dollar home, a Yatch and an elitist attitude toward the commoners and prolls..

Also, it could be argued that their very assembly forces police overtime and in some cases military operations that costs the Country millions of dollars. You can argue whatever you want but if nobody was there then there would be no need to waste taxpayers money on attention whores. And yes, WASTE your own money so that you can wave a sign and get nowhere crying about how money is wasted.

Irony.

Maybe get lucky and get shoved so you can start a facebook page and a lawsuit to get that 15 seconds of fame you so desperately crave and give the population something to cry about for ever.

Seriously. Does anyone even for a moment think the 1% gives a **** if there are protesters or not?

Does anyone think they say, "Oh, look at all those dirtbags with signs! I better give all my money that I worked for away to them so they can get more tats and piercings and buy more $800 phones so they can get the latest apps....

**** that. They don't care and they are not effected in the slightest because they are busy making money, solving your real issues and doing all the little things you take for granted like taking your trash away every week so you don't have to live ina big pile of ****. Usually the boxes and wrappers for all those MUST have things you buy like bigger and better HD TV's....

Revolution is for the impoverished and oppressed. It is usually a bloody mess where the elite are outed and hung in the streets. Hang the rich etc.

I've seen it first hand. I've seen people die for every reason you can think of and I am convinced it's wrong no matter why...

The rich in that definition are also all y'all living in places like Oakville, driving the latest and greatest BMW, wearing $1000 shoes and playing keeping up with the Jones. So, if it really came down to it, only the homeless can really claim poverty or oppression.

.....not that a pussified country like Canada would ever bring itself to murder when it came down to it unless they could do it through their computers, anonymously and with little effort....

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I have a couple of points to make here...

1) It's not like our society doesn't have its own issues.. We live in a world where 300 own more than 3,000,000,000. There's no way those 300 worked 10,000,000 times harder or contributed that much more than those 3,000,000,000. That means that the human society has some serious inequality issues. And many are not getting their fair shake based on the amount of work they put in.

2) The super-rich are also able to use their money to manipulate laws to benefit them at the expense of the majority, thus making themselves that much richer at the expense of everybody else, widening that gap. It has also been happening here, but we started out with a bigger middle class than most so it's still not as bad as in other countries.

3) I don't see why a protest has to be restricted to "Here's the problem, here's the solution." Why not also "Here's the problem, let's work on the solution"? Otherwise, you completely ignore the problem. The problem is pretty big and a bunch of young people with very little experience can't be expected to solve it. That is why they are trying to get others involved.

4) Nobody giving a **** is how we created the mess in the first place. That is why I support everyone who gets active on making social change. Better than sitting with their thumbs up their *****.

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

True News: The Wall Street Protests
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDwZM_AS4

 

[FullMotoJacket]

I have a couple of points to make here...

1) It's not like our society doesn't have its own issues.. We live in a world where 300 own more than 3,000,000,000. There's no way those 300 worked 10,000,000 times harder or contributed that much more than those 3,000,000,000. That means that the human society has some serious inequality issues. And many are not getting their fair shake based on the amount of work they put in.

2) The super-rich are also able to use their money to manipulate laws to benefit them at the expense of the majority, thus making themselves that much richer at the expense of everybody else, widening that gap. It has also been happening here, but we started out with a bigger middle class than most so it's still not as bad as in other countries.

You talk like this is some new phenomenon. It's been going on since the dawn of civilization with the feudal warlords, monarchs, emperors, and the ones who curried their favour. Your idea that a bunch of hippies standing around Bay St. chanting slogans and gazing at their navels is going to change thousands of years of status quo is laughable.


Oh, and the sky is falling. I'm investing heavily in tinfoil.

 

[gcrouse]

ahmen to that statement right there

I really hope not. While I'm not a hipster, at least those people are getting involved in making changes to the society and I respect them for that. We should never discourage social activism. Hopefully it remains a peaceful protest.

 

[jolomatic]

You talk like this is some new phenomenon. It's been going on since the dawn of civilization with the feudal warlords, monarchs, emperors, and the ones who curried their favour. Your idea that a bunch of hippies standing around Bay St. chanting slogans and gazing at their navels is going to change thousands of years of status quo is laughable.

So you conclude that the answer is to do nothing?

Animals eating people has been a problem for much longer. Over time we, through various technological and sociological experiments found that we were able to all but eliminate that problem. Glad our ancestors never said "Thinking a bunch of dirty hunters waving pointed sticks will change the staus quo is laughable."

I think the good that is coming from the protests is not in the form of an answer to the problems, but rather that it gets people to recognize and discuss the problem. This thread is living proof that it works.

 

[Flashmonkey]

So you conclude that the answer is to do nothing?

Animals eating people has been a problem for much longer. Over time we, through various technological and sociological experiments found that we were able to all but eliminate that problem. Glad our ancestors never said "Thinking a bunch of dirty hunters waving pointed sticks will change the staus quo is laughable."

I think the good that is coming from the protests is not in the form of an answer to the problems, but rather that it gets people to recognize and discuss the problem. This thread is living proof that it works.

The problem with this particular protest is the nature of the complaint. Like I've said earlier, most of these folks are upset at the fact that they're not rich/have no jobs, the economy sucks, and a small percentage of the population has control over most of the wealth.

Since this is pretty much a consumer based society, I can't help but feel that we, as individual consumers, had a large role to play in this mess. The fact that people are getting together to protest this instead of, say, taking personal responsibility for their own financial situations, is hilariously ironic.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every single person...but I'm willing to bet it'll apply to most.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

You talk like this is some new phenomenon. It's been going on since the dawn of civilization with the feudal warlords, monarchs, emperors, and the ones who curried their favour. Your idea that a bunch of hippies standing around Bay St. chanting slogans and gazing at their navels is going to change thousands of years of status quo is laughable.

Yeah, we should leave things be "because it's always been done".. Real smart Arsenic has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for over 2000 years.. Then we found out that it's a poison. I'm sure some traditional practitioners continued giving it to their pati.. victims "because it's always been done"

 

[CanadianBiker]

I thought north american society was built on freedom from tyranny... you know religious and political oppression.

I have a problem when words like "tyranny" are tossed about so casually. Real tyranny occurs in far too many places in the world and when it's used to describe the situation of some 30-year-old "student" who complains about being unable to pay back the student loan for their degree in comparative religious literature with a focus on women's issue (with a minor in the persecution of one-armed Latvian lion tamers), it cheapens its meaning.
Tyranny is the woman in Saudi Arabia sentenced to be flogged for the crime of driving.
Tyranny are the poets in China sentenced to 30 years for expressing ideas.
Tyranny are the Mexican peasants forced at gun point to grow and produce narcotics destined for fat North American noses.
Tyranny is living in North Korea and being forced to participate in huge state celebrations of your Glorious Leder while your children literally starve.
Tyranny is not being able to assemble in public and protest without fear of death and torture.
There's an awful lot wrong with North America but true tyranny isn't it. This is where people come to escape it.

 

[jolomatic]

Since this is pretty much a consumer based society, I can't help but feel that we, as individual consumers, had a large role to play in this mess. The fact that people are getting together to protest this instead of, say, taking personal responsibility for their own financial situations, is hilariously ironic.

This is too true - and certainly is the fundamental root of the problem.

However, writing protesters off as 'hippies' or whatever is a logical fallacy ('ad homenum', I think) - and doesn't change the fact that there is a legitimate problem that they are pointing out. The problem exists even if the people protesting are part of it.