It flies in the face of the majority of modern science thinking from experts in the field. It's good for short term economics though. Long term....depends on if you own Florida property on the top of a hill or not or have shares in pontoon building businesses or banana plantations.
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Obama's Legacy
- Thread starter Neil_V
- Start date
It flies in the face of the majority of modern science thinking from experts in the field. It's good for short term economics though. Long term....depends on if you own Florida property on the top of a hill or not or have shares in pontoon building businesses or banana plantations.
Care to join the CC thread?
Not really. The topic is pretty much done and dusted as far as I'm concerned. Just became relevant to this thread at this point.
He was too inexperienced in his first two years. Spent too much time working on ACA and not enough on the recession. Health care should have been postponed until the recession was fully dealt with. At the two year mark he became a lame duck as the Republicans took over due mostly to the above. If he played the first two years differently (better) I think things would be very different today. By the end I think he had the skills but by then it was too late.
Lost opportunity is his legacy, also being the first Black president he has broken down future barriers for all minorities--that is something. I think he is a good man but it takes more than that. He is also a good talker, but slow to action.
Given the ****** there now people are waxing poetic about him. BUT!!! whenever people lose focus on the fact that his (Obama) poor performance paved the way for the change they lose perspective. It goes both ways, for example Harper paved the road for the change to Trudeau, glazing over Harper's incompetence just paves the way for the next incompetent doofus. Waxing poetic about Harper just gets us another Harper at the helm of the CPC, waxing poetic about Obama will just get them another Obama at the helm of the Dems.
Lost opportunity is his legacy, also being the first Black president he has broken down future barriers for all minorities--that is something. I think he is a good man but it takes more than that. He is also a good talker, but slow to action.
Given the ****** there now people are waxing poetic about him. BUT!!! whenever people lose focus on the fact that his (Obama) poor performance paved the way for the change they lose perspective. It goes both ways, for example Harper paved the road for the change to Trudeau, glazing over Harper's incompetence just paves the way for the next incompetent doofus. Waxing poetic about Harper just gets us another Harper at the helm of the CPC, waxing poetic about Obama will just get them another Obama at the helm of the Dems.
The American president isn't an emperor (as Trump might find out soon). You need both houses to at least debate sensibly and at least pass common sense legislation. During the Obama years there seemed to be a policy from republican majority powerbases to obfuscate and reject everything he proposed even if it was something they were aligned with previously. It's pretty hard to drive forwards when people put walls up everywhere. I don't think Obama is the best president there's ever been but I think he did a pretty good job in the face of a petty Republican Party and after taking over the mess that Shrub Jnr left. As for the recession, the US economy is pretty strong and certainly better than when he entered office. It's certainly not the doom and gloom Trump painted. The ACA ended up being watered down quite badly partly due to having to concede a few items to republicans in order to at least get something in place and was constantly attacked by republicans and a powerful insurance lobby so much that even people who were happily using facets of the ACA didn't realize that this was actually the "Obamacare" they wanted repealed.
It should be mentioned he faced a pretty recalcitrant Democratic-majority in the early days as well. In spite of getting little help from his own team and nothing but grief from the other side of the aisle the guy did pretty damn good. I think a few weeks or months into the Trump administration people will really start to miss Obama, even if they're too ideological to admit it.
Wow! How time flies? Back in 2008, the US economy was in a complete meltdown. Folks homeless, living in motels etc. What was the unemployment rate again? How many billions in bail out money was given to the banks and auto sector?
Obama leaves office and how does things look now? Honestly, not a democrat but, thought the fella was inherited a poop show and thing turned out all right. Does he get complete credit? No way. But, I didn't have much for expectations and think things turned out alright under his watch.
Obama leaves office and how does things look now? Honestly, not a democrat but, thought the fella was inherited a poop show and thing turned out all right. Does he get complete credit? No way. But, I didn't have much for expectations and think things turned out alright under his watch.
-D-
Banned
Calm down Neil.
I can care less. I live in Canada.
I am sure you learned by now that the banks run the show in the US followed by the military industrial complex then the prison complex.
As for women- the first thing he signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter law for women to get equal pay for equal work.
-D-
Banned
Do you mean the Democrats of the day who had the Republicans values of today back then?
The party's did a switch.
Does it matter the party? People owned slaves while they wrote a Constitution stating all men are created equally...under God...blah blah blah
From day one you had the Senate Leader Mitch McConell go on tv and said they will block everything he does.
And they did. Does that look like we are all here to build a better country. NO! They are all there for $$$
Why no Senate term limits?
All of this is pointless. If a woman became president they will find 1 thing to show failure as to why women suck at being leaders or the president.
You realize you are dealing with a populous that deny climate change and believe the Earth is 5000 years old or something like that.
Man and dinosaur lived together.
I agree on divided. Race divisions came from the right hating with every cell of their being the black president, doing everything they could to denigrate his race, his origin, his wife and his daughters and from shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later cops shooting black guys in the back than anything Obama himself did.
Not sure about violent (violent crime stats?)
Isolated? In what way? What then do you think of Trump's ideas of isolation: pulling out of trade deals, Mike Rogers' (R-ALA) recently tabled "American Sovereignty Restoration Act" aimed at remove the US from the UN, threatening the existence of NATO etc. You haven't seen isolation yet...
Can't argue with the debt but I'm not really sure too many people care anymore. Even with $20T debt under Obama interest rates remained low, the stock market thrived, the economy is doing well, the recovery from the Great Recession went as well as could be expected. :shrug:
Bigger war machine? I thought Republicans were ****** Obama depleted the military; Trump's talking about starting the biggest Navy build-up in decades. Obama brought troops home and wound down US involvement in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. So to what are you referring?
Im talking about the Obama administration staying engaged on multiple fronts, and more importantly, exporting more arms and military equipment than the "war monger" Bush before him. He escalated US intervention in the Middle East and continued expansion into Eastern Europe. The US also continued on its well established doctrine of regime change under Obama.. starting conflicts in Syria, Libya, and (arguably) Ukraine, which resulted in even further strains to their relationship with the Russians. This man won a fricken Nobel peace prize?? No. Just no.
Isolated in the sense that the US is arguably in a much worse political position globally than it was before. Relations with China and Russia are massively strained and the Middle East is somehow an even bigger mess than it was under Bush and Clinton.
And I wasn't talking about race divisions, but since you've brought it up, Obama's administration did absolutely nothing to help inner-city blacks in America. No new job opportunities, no real education reform, and absolutely nothing to fix their broken culture of crime. What happened in Baltimore was disgraceful - an entire city (run by a black Mayor and a majority black council and a black police chief, mind you) almost destroyed itself because a cop shot a criminal in self-defence. These idiots burned their own city down in retaliation! And what good comes out of it? A racist "black lives matter" movement emerges, despite the biggest danger to blacks in America being other blacks. You couldn't make this stuff up. I'm not blaming Obama for it necessarily, but things certainly haven't gotten better in that department under his watch.
Isolated in the sense that the US is arguably in a much worse political position globally than it was before. Relations with China and Russia are massively strained and the Middle East is somehow an even bigger mess than it was under Bush and Clinton.
And I wasn't talking about race divisions, but since you've brought it up, Obama's administration did absolutely nothing to help inner-city blacks in America. No new job opportunities, no real education reform, and absolutely nothing to fix their broken culture of crime. What happened in Baltimore was disgraceful - an entire city (run by a black Mayor and a majority black council and a black police chief, mind you) almost destroyed itself because a cop shot a criminal in self-defence. These idiots burned their own city down in retaliation! And what good comes out of it? A racist "black lives matter" movement emerges, despite the biggest danger to blacks in America being other blacks. You couldn't make this stuff up. I'm not blaming Obama for it necessarily, but things certainly haven't gotten better in that department under his watch.
How so?
You're kidding
lol. How did the Russian invasion of Crimea suddenly become Obama's fault?In fact it was Bush that pushed for Georgia and Ukraine NATO membership, not Obama. This was a move that was opposed by NATO at the time. That notwithstanding, Russia's practice of invading countries to stave off such NATO infiltration is still barbaric and illegal (Putin invaded Georgia in 2008...) I suppose somehow it's still Obama's fault tho. :/
The situation in the Middle East is entirely on GWB: the invasion of Iraq and toppling of Saddam Hussein was the biggest mistake this side of the US ignoring intel chatter on Pearl Harbour and 9/11/01. The power vacuum created there unleashed tribal and sectarian violence and led to the rise of ISIL. Also on Bush was his effort, starting in 2005, to topple the Syrian regime unleashing yet more open space for extremism. Obama's involvement after the fact: What would you expect him to have done given the mess he inherited?
How so?
You're kidding
In fact it was Bush that pushed for Georgia and Ukraine NATO membership, not Obama. This was a move that was opposed by NATO at the time. That notwithstanding, Russia's practice of invading countries to stave off such NATO infiltration is still barbaric and illegal (Putin invaded Georgia in 2008...) I suppose somehow it's still Obama's fault tho. :/
The situation in the Middle East is entirely on GWB: the invasion of Iraq and toppling of Saddam Hussein was the biggest mistake this side of the US ignoring intel chatter on Pearl Harbour and 9/11/01. The power vacuum created there unleashed tribal and sectarian violence and led to the rise of ISIL. Also on Bush was his effort, starting in 2005, to topple the Syrian regime unleashing yet more open space for extremism. Obama's involvement after the fact: What would you expect him to have done given the mess he inherited?
Yeah yeah everything started with "Bush" never mind that the Syrian civil war started in 2011, and Obama's CIA funnelled so much military equipment into the rebel hands, they effectively made the lasting conflict possible in the first place. Those rebels would've been crushed in 4 months if the US 'regime change' machine hadn't interfered. Obama didn't invent that idea but he certainly made no efforts to establish peace in the region. Libya, same story... 2011, Arab Spring, look it up. Obama, legacy. Hell yeah. WAR!
The Russian "invasion" (lol) of Crimea happened after the democratically elected leader was ousted through violent protests. There is no argument about it, the facts are black and white. The US withdrew from the long-running and by all accounts successful ABMT and started building up missile 'defences' (come on gimme a break) on Russia's door step. Obama did nothing to reverse course or create a better relationship with Russia, or China for that matter. I'm sure you'll have plenty more to say about big bad Russia, but the facts are not up for dispute: US relations with Russia and China are crap on Obama's watch. Fact.
Actually, under Obama US-Sino relations are, by all accounts, as good and stable as they have been for the last 40 years. If you're upset with US-Sino relations now wait until Trump goads them into a shooting war over Taiwan. And re peace in the ME: Sure, let's see how things go when Trump unwaveringly supports more settlements and make provacative moves like moving the US embassy. Obama may have had his hands tied vis. being handed multiple dripping turds like the ME but I will guarantee Trump is going to make things a lot worse. The term "from the frying pan into the fire" comes to mind...
You're basically ****** that Obama wasn't able to undo the mistakes of previous administrations. Maybe there's some merit to that, maybe not. I just hope you apply the same standards to the Trump administration.
You're basically ****** that Obama wasn't able to undo the mistakes of previous administrations. Maybe there's some merit to that, maybe not. I just hope you apply the same standards to the Trump administration.
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So your counter-argument is basically "Obama didn't start it!" and "Trump sucks!"
Gotcha. Except Obama DID start it in Syria and Libya and Ukraine. It was on his watch that the bullets started flying. Fact.
Oh and no Im not ****** at all, I'm not American. This thread is about Obama's legacy... and my statement was simple. His 8 years has resulted in a divided America and a Donald Trump in the White House. Some legacy.
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?Nice how you leave out the facts ..
The strikes, which were later confirmed by the Pentagon, did not require Trump to sign off on them. Under then-President Barack Obama, the authority to order such strikes in Yemen was devolved to the four-star commander of US Central Command, Gen. Joseph Votel.
Sometimes I'm UP
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