Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

[K13GT]

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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Update on correspondence with City & elected officials:

1) I emailed my Councillor (Karen Stintz) who voted in favour of the motion last week: no reply so far.

2) I emailed the City Clerk with my comments. The reply from the Clerk:

"“If you would like to have your comments or be a speaker at the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee meeting on January 4, 2012, you can send your comments to pwic@toronto.ca for this item.”

3) So I emailed the Public Works & Infrastructure Committee (pwic@toronto.ca) to have my objections recorded. No reply to date.

4) I also emailed Mayor Ford (Mayor_Ford@toronto.ca). The auto-reply I received 2 minutes after sending my email (note the comment about "building a transportation city"):

“Thank you for your email.
As I promised during the mayoralty election, I am dedicated to delivering customer service excellence, creating a transparent and accountable government, reducing the size and cost of government and building a transportation city.
I will continue to work on behalf of the taxpayers to make sure you get the respect you deserve.
This note is to confirm that we have received your email and that we are looking into your matter.
Please feel free to follow up to check the status of your email.
Thanks again and have a great day.
Yours truly,
Mayor Rob Ford
City of Toronto”

 

[Yuros]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Organized protests will almost certainly occur if any charges are contemplated. Envision days where motorcyclists pay for and use one entire parking space for their machines. It would cause an outrage, yet be perfectly legal. London was the first city to impose a congestion charge for automobiles entering the downtown core. London also provides abundant free parking for motorcycles everywhere they can fit.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Organized protests will almost certainly occur if any charges are contemplated. Envision days where motorcyclists pay for and use one entire parking space for their machines. It would cause an outrage, yet be perfectly legal. London was the first city to impose a congestion charge for automobiles entering the downtown core. London also provides abundant free parking for motorcycles everywhere they can fit.

Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaah....... not gonna happen. Been there, got left with my unit in my hand.

 

[vrus]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Organized protests will almost certainly occur if any charges are contemplated. Envision days where motorcyclists pay for and use one entire parking space for their machines. It would cause an outrage

I'm betting on no.

 

[RedCaesar]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

If motorcyclists were to enter their license plate number on the keypad of the ticketing machine then this might work. The parking person could simply enter the plate number of the bike they want to check and see that it's paid up. This could cover those who don't have cell phones. However, they'd have to install keypads into all of those existing machines. I can't imagine that would be cheap at all.

Despite my suggestion, I'm definitely one for allowing free parking for vehicles which use less physical space and gasoline. Environmentally friendly alternatives to cars should be encouraged as much as possible.

What key pad?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

What key pad?

The one that's one of the proposed additions to parking ticket dispensers, in pay and display areas, that would naturally cost far more than they'd ever hope to see in parking fees.

Of course this has to come up when they've got paid parking signs all along one side of the now one-way section, of Bond Street, where Ryerson students might have expected to park their motorcycles next season.

 

[kiterider]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Like I said, I really don't see a way of them enforcing properly and have any sizable revenue out of it; In fact I think they'd be losing money. Unless it's part of some initiative to replace the entire street parking system (as part of some upgrade), for autos and motorcycles, it most likely will be a waste of money.

 

[tricky]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Like I said, I really don't see a way of them enforcing properly and have any sizable revenue out of it; In fact I think they'd be losing money. Unless it's part of some initiative to replace the entire street parking system (as part of some upgrade), for autos and motorcycles, it most likely will be a waste of money.

They could make us pay a flat rate for the year and put a sticker on the license plate, as others have said. I think that'd be the only way to make real money out of parked motorcycles with little expense to the City

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

They could make us pay a flat rate for the year and put a sticker on the license plate, as others have said. I think that'd be the only way to make real money out of parked motorcycles with little expense to the City

That's pretty much the only option I've heard, that might actually be at least revenue neutral.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

They could make us pay a flat rate for the year and put a sticker on the license plate, as others have said. I think that'd be the only way to make real money out of parked motorcycles with little expense to the City

so what about people from out of town? we get free parking?


I'm still waiting for a response from ford to the email i sent to rford@toronto.ca

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

oh and couldn't find this thread for a few days because it got stickied.

 

[daveyflakes]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

They could make us pay a flat rate for the year and put a sticker on the license plate, as others have said. I think that'd be the only way to make real money out of parked motorcycles with little expense to the City

But what about people who don't park on the street daily? Like kiterider said, I think the only feasible and fair way is to charge us when the entire system has been revamped to get rid of the paper stub completely.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

But what about people who don't park on the street daily? Like kiterider said, I think the only feasible and fair way is to charge us when the entire system has been revamped to get rid of the paper stub completely.

If they made the cost reasonable and nominal, then it would likely work for everyone. Perhaps something like $200.00/yr? That would be more money than they are currently taking in while still fostering an alternate mode of transportation, and not breaking the bank on monitoring the programme.

 

[daveyflakes]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

If they made the cost reasonable and nominal, then it would likely work for everyone. Perhaps something like $200.00/yr? That would be more money than they are currently taking in while still fostering an alternate mode of transportation, and not breaking the bank on monitoring the programme.

$200 can be very cheap or very steep depending on your needs. If you park downtown everyday for work, then it's quite reasonable. But if you're like me--took advantage of free street parking less than a handful of times this season--that's asking quite a bit!

 

[tricky]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

so what about people from out of town? we get free parking?

Forgot about that... lol. Both of you raise good points, you can either pay and park as many times as you'd like, or you don't pay and can't park at all. There's no in between

Maybe if they could get a system of printing parking stickers at the machines.. but then that's getting complicated

 

[RetroGrouch]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

But if you're like me--took advantage of free street parking less than a handful of times this season--that's asking quite a bit!

Then use the parking machine and devise a way to secure your receipt. I really don't think it's that hard to tie a transparent pocket with a small combo lock somewhere visible on your bike. If we had to go back to paying, that's what I'd do. I thought motorcyclists were a resourceful bunch, or am I just too old-school?

 

[daveyflakes]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Then use the parking machine and devise a way to secure your receipt. I really don't think it's that hard to tie a transparent pocket with a small combo lock somewhere visible on your bike. If we had to go back to paying, that's what I'd do. I thought motorcyclists were a resourceful bunch, or am I just too old-school?

But then this isn't really a solution. Why not just make all motorcycles use pay-and-display and end the conversation right now?

Anyway, I think we need to first determine what the actual reason is that we get free parking right now? Is it because of a legitimate reason like the display problem in "pay-and-display"? Or is it just a nice perk that we're getting for free?

If the problem is the display part, then the whole system needs to be revamped. For example, each machine(s) on a street can have a cellular communication device that would update a server somewhere with which license plates have payed to park and until what time. Parking enforcement officers can carry a similar device that tells them exactly which license plates have paid.

If it's just a free perk we're getting for no apparent reason, then I'm fine if they decide motorcycles must use pay-and-display. Everyone just needs to deal with the consequences of potentially losing your stub.

 

[Face]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Update

The Motorcycle Confederation of Canada is helping with the cause. I understand that they will have a petition to City Council to maintain the free motorcycle parking at the show this weekend. They are at booth 1641, so please track them down and sign the petition. Pass the word on to anyone you know who is going.

I have spoken to some connections at City hall and the staff who will be responsible for writing the report, and this came completely out of right field. It was not part of the MBTW study of the City's finances and no one was expecting it. Staff don't know yet if they will be reporting to Committee on January 4th or not. They may need to write a brief report to ask for more time, or they may just be able to hold off until they are ready. I'll post as soon as I know whether this will be January 4th or not, and if we need to organize people to come to Committee. They are aware of our interest and I have strongly expressed the need for public consultation before this is reported on. I've also prepared a 3-page summary of the issues we've raised on this thread, and I've passed it on to staff and MCC.

Staff are looking at 2 things:

1. Free motorcycle & scooter on-street parking in pay-and-display and metered areas. Some of you have been speculating about why we got this in the first place. Here is the link to the staff report & motion which details the reasons why we were exempt back in 2005. To me they appear as relevant today as they were back then.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2005/agendas/council/cc051026/wks9rpt/cl002.pdf

2. The exemption from fees for permit parking (long term & overnight) for scooters & motorcycles. This came in 2006 as a follow-up to free on-street parking in pay-and-display and metered areas from 2005. At the time, they had only issued 18 on-street permits worth a grand total annual revenue of $2,200! Seems a small price to pay to promote more efficient transportation, but Councillor Del Grande says he wants every possible dollar. I suspect 20 years of permits will not cover the staff time costs to review this issue, but hey, its about being seen to be doing something, right Councillor Del Grande! Here's the link to this report.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/wks/wks060911/it026.pdf


I'll keep posting as I here more. Keep passing the word so that as many people as possible write their Councillor!

 

[daveyflakes]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Thanks, Face. I didn't read the whole thing, but it sounds like the only reason we got free parking was because of the problem of securing the pay-and-display stub and the subsequent hassles associated with overturning parking tickets.

It has nothing to do with promoting "greener" transportation or what have you. So, IMO, the same problem still exists and there's really no "real" solution until they can find a way to upgrade the entire system and get rid of the paper stubs.

 

[Face]

Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Thanks, Face. I didn't read the whole thing, but it sounds like the only reason we got free parking was because of the problem of securing the pay-and-display stub and the subsequent hassles associated with overturning parking tickets.

It has nothing to do with promoting "greener" transportation or what have you. So, IMO, the same problem still exists and there's really no "real" solution until they can find a way to upgrade the entire system and get rid of the paper stubs.

If you go on to read the reciptals (the whereas's) toward the end, they also quote a bunch enviromental reasons. it was moved by Case Ootes (a right wing guy) and seconded by Glenn De Baeremaeker, (a left wing guy who moved up in politics from Save the Rouge). De Baeremaeker was also the guy who held this down and moved the changes removing harmonizing with cars. Even though he supported the amended recommendations, he first did not support moving it forward without public notice or the standard process. In the end, he may be an ally.

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