Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
If they made the cost reasonable and nominal, then it would likely work for everyone. Perhaps something like $200.00/yr? That would be more money than they are currently taking in while still fostering an alternate mode of transportation, and not breaking the bank on monitoring the programme.
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It seems viable, but in reality it actually might not. Even if only daily commuters are considered, there are problems. The validation sticker should be theft and counterfeit proof. At $200 per sticker, it could give someone incentive to steal them.

A counter to this would be some sort if system, where the sticker is tagged to the plate which the officer can then verify. The costs for this system would easily outweigh any revenues. It means all enforcement officers will need to either carry some sort of hand held system or call it in.

Either way, it translates to software and/or hardware costs to the city, and therefore to the taxpayers. All for maybe 200-300k a year, which is probably the minimum of what the city would have to spend to develop and maintain this system.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

kiterider said:
It seems viable, but in reality it actually might not. Even if only daily commuters are considered, there are problems. The validation sticker should be theft and counterfeit proof. At $200 per sticker, it could give someone incentive to steal them.

A counter to this would be some sort if system, where the sticker is tagged to the plate which the officer can then verify. The costs for this system would easily outweigh any revenues. It means all enforcement officers will need to either carry some sort of hand held system or call it in.

Either way, it translates to software and/or hardware costs to the city, and therefore to the taxpayers. All for maybe 200-300k a year, which is probably the minimum of what the city would have to spend to develop and maintain this system.
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They already have a parking permit system, so this would just tag onto it.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
They already have a parking permit system, so this would just tag onto it.
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How does that work? Just a park and display tag on the rearview mirror, or is it something affixed to the plate?
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

And what's about if I park in downtown only few times a week?.. would I have to pay same 200$/year like a person who is parking everyday???
No, that doesn't work.

I just returned from San Francisco last week, where bikes are very common... Bike parking costs there $0.50 per hour in downtown, where cars park fee is $3.50 per hour.
 
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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Today, I received a "2011 Newsletter" from my Councillor (Karen Stintz, Ward 16).

In her newsletter, she mentions something I have not heard before: Toronto Parking Authority will issue an RFP (Request for Proposal) for a new "Pay-by-Phone Parking" system for the City.

If they go ahead with it, that's how the City could easily start charging motorcycles/ scooters, and avoid the display tag or parking permit/sticker problem.

The full text from Karen Stintz's newsletter (bolding added):
"I strongly feel residents should be offered the convenience of paying for parking through a smart phone app or dial-in service and (I) introduced a Motion at City Council to explore how such a service could be implemented. Using this service, residents would no longer need to insert money into meters, they would receive text message reminders when their parking time is almost up and could extend parking time remotely. I am pleased to report that an RFP will be issued by the Toronto Parking Authority for this service in January 2012."
 
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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Here's the email I just got today from Rob Ford, replying to my email in Post 134:

"Thank you for email sharing your concerns about City Council's decision to review parking fees for motorcycles and motor scooters, which are currently exempt.

On November 30th, City Council voted 28-2 in favour of a motion brought by Councillor Del Grande and seconded by Councillor Wong-Tam. The motion calls on the General Manager of Transportation Services to report to the February 6 and 7, 2012 meeting of City Council, through the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee, on options for the implementation and enforcement of parking charges and fees regarding motorcycles and motor scooters. This review is not part of the 2012 proposed City budget.

The two Councillors argue that the current exemptions are unfair to motorists who drive different classes of vehicles other than motorcycles and motor scooters as they currently pay full fees for using parking services of their vehicles. Exempting certain classes of vehicles (such as motorcycles and motor scooters) from being charged the above fees could also be considered a loss in potential revenue for the City.

I look forward to receipt of the staff report in February and to having a thorough and public debate on this matter at Committee and Council.

As promised during the mayoral election, I am dedicated to delivering customer service excellence, creating a transparent and accountable government, reducing the size and cost of government and building a transportation city.

Thank you again for taking the time to write me and share your thoughts. Your valuable input is greatly appreciated. Please feel free to contact my office again at any time.

Yours truly,

Mayor Rob Ford
City of Toronto"

I guess what we do now is let our feelings be known to: "General Manager of Transportation Services " whoever that is../J
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

K13GT said:
Today, I received a "2011 Newsletter" from my Councillor (Karen Stintz, Ward 16).

In her newsletter, she mentions something I have not heard before: Toronto Parking Authority will issue an RFP (Request for Proposal) for a new "Pay-by-Phone Parking" system for the City.

If they go ahead with it, that's how the City could easily start charging motorcycles/ scooters, and avoid the display tag or parking permit/sticker problem.

The full text from Karen Stintz's newsletter (bolding added):
"I strongly feel residents should be offered the convenience of paying for parking through a smart phone app or dial-in service and (I) introduced a Motion at City Council to explore how such a service could be implemented. Using this service, residents would no longer need to insert money into meters, they would receive text message reminders when their parking time is almost up and could extend parking time remotely. I am pleased to report that an RFP will be issued by the Toronto Parking Authority for this service in January 2012."
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they need to also address the fact if someone doesnt have a phone. Ie. new Pay-n-display terminals
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/onstreet/index.htm
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Ah well, thx for the link but, I'm not sure if that will be relevant anymore based on later posts here.

If they plan on going ahead with the park by phone thing, then I hope the prices will be worth it. Which mean that I would have to stick to weekends and wee hour riding.

Toronto sux balls.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

kiwi said:
they need to also address the fact if someone doesnt have a phone. Ie. new Pay-n-display terminals
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I think that the first thing they REALLY have to address, is whether this is the right time to be overhauling their parking setup. Again it comes down to dogmatic adherence to philosophy vs. best practice. What are the costs?
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

The only real justification is to overhaul the system for everyone. Maybe they can justify the long term savings by doing away with parking stations entirely and saving on hardware. Not sure what the city spends on maintaining these units, but that's how they'll plan on selling it. Again, a valid point is at what cost. And why fix something that isn't really broken??

The fact that they're using motorcycles as scapegoats is what's ticking me off. Maybe the current admin ( read ford) finds most motorcycles/scooters a nuisance on the streets and this is one way to make the roads more car friendly. If the current parking rates are applied to bikes as well, it can be pretty much guaranteed that we'll be seeing a huge drop in bike commuters.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
Andy Koropeski
Phone - (416) 392-8431
Fax - (416) 392-4455
email - akoropes@toronto.ca
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This info from the City's web site is a bit out of date. The "General Manager of Transportation Services " is Gary Welsh, but he will be retiring in February. Andy Koropeski is the guy who will be writing the report on fees for motorcycle parking. This e-mail is correct, but his phone number is (416) 392-7714. Please write him with your comments and be sure to ask to be kept informed about any public meetings on the issue.

The staff deadline to report to the January 4th Public Works & Infrastructure Committee, and the February 6th Council meeting is today. I have spoken with Gary's office, and the report will be delayed until the Spring, so if you were planning to come to Committee in January to speak, it will not be on that agenda. If anything changes, I'll post as soon as I find out.

This will give us more time to gather signatures on the petition and organize our feedback to the City. I've also been advised that there will be public consultation, probably in February, so please everybody e-mail Andy Koropeski with your concerns and ask to be put on the notification list. Here's the link to the petition again:

http://www.petitiononlinecanada.com/...d-scooters/619
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Face said:
This info from the City's web site is a bit out of date. The "General Manager of Transportation Services " is Gary Welsh, but he will be retiring in February. Andy Koropeski is the guy who will be writing the report on fees for motorcycle parking. This e-mail is correct, but his phone number is (416) 392-7714. Please write him with your comments and be sure to ask to be kept informed about any public meetings on the issue.

The staff deadline to report to the January 4th Public Works & Infrastructure Committee, and the February 6th Council meeting is today. I have spoken with Gary's office, and the report will be delayed until the Spring, so if you were planning to come to Committee in January to speak, it will not be on that agenda. If anything changes, I'll post as soon as I find out.

This will give us more time to gather signatures on the petition and organize our feedback to the City. I've also been advised that there will be public consultation, probably in February, so please everybody e-mail Andy Koropeski with your concerns and ask to be put on the notification list. Here's the link to the petition again:

http://www.petitiononlinecanada.com/...d-scooters/619
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Thanks for the correction. I couldn't find anything but general departmental contact information, on the city's website, so I pulled it from a publication, from a couple of months back.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

johnp said:
Here's the email I just got today from Rob Ford ...

"Thank you for email sharing your concerns about City Council's decision to review parking fees ... two Councillors argue that the current exemptions are unfair to motorists who drive different classes of vehicles other than motorcycles and motor scooters as they currently pay full fees for using parking services of their vehicles. Exempting certain classes of vehicles (such as motorcycles and motor scooters) from being charged the above fees could also be considered a loss in potential revenue for the City ... Mayor Rob Ford,
City of Toronto"/J
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So two key reasons for the Major:
1. Free parking for motorcycles/ scooters is unfair to car drivers.
2. Loss of revenue

Re Mayor's 1st reason:
Recalling two themes from the Mayor's election campaign, I suspect he sees free parking for motorcycles/ scooters as "gravy" (i.e., some people getting a freebies), and part of the "war on the car" (i.e., car drivers have to shoulder all the costs).

On the issue of fairness, if "Pay-by-Phone" parking is introduced per City's RFP, then motorcycles & scooters should pay 1/5 the parking fees that cars pay, because that, in the Mayor's words, would be "fair" based on the smaller space requirements of motorcycles & scooters.

Re Mayor's 2nd reason:
As detailed in many earlier posts, the City's decision should take into account ALL the costs (e.g., increased congestion if fewer people ride; enforcement costs; etc.) and benefits (e.g., incremental parking revenue from motorcycle/scooters).

Even if the City does launch a "Pay-by-Phone" parking system, they would still need to show that the benefits of charging motorcycles/ scooters for parking exceed the costs. What may seem like an easy (but small) source of revenue, may not be a net benefit to the City.

As others have pointed out in previous posts, many large US & European cities have already decided that it does NOT make sense to charge motorcycles/scooters for parking. But when motorcycles/ scooters are charged, many of those cities charge a lower rate than cars to be fair.

Not to get too far off topic ...
But keep in mind, that Councillor Doug Ford (Mayor's brother) recently said that the estimated $65M cancellation fee for Transit City (plus many more millions just to STUDY the feasibility of the alternative subway expansion, etc.) is worth it because Torontonians want subways. Really? That sounds like gravy (waste) to me.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Here is the response from my councillor:

Dear [GnatWest],

Thank you for writing me regarding the proposed removal of on-street parking permit fee exemptions for motorcycles and motor scooters. At this point no decision has been made regarding this issue. On November 30th City Council asked staff to investigate options for removing the parking fee exemption and report back with their findings. I voted in favour of the motion to have staff gather this information. City Council will consider the proposal when the Staff Report is completed so it can make an informed decision. Thank you for sharing your views with me.

Sincerely,
Janet




Councillor Janet Davis
Ward 31, Beaches - East York
Phone: 416-392-4035
www.janetdavis.ca
Twitter @Janet_Davis
Requests for City service may also be directed to 311@toronto.ca, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Here's the latest form e-mail from the staff responsible for writing the report on fees for motorcycle parking.

"I acknowledge receiving your e-mail, and thank you for outlining your concerns for consideration in our staff assessment of this matter. This is to advise that there will not be a staff report before the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee at its January 4, 2012 meeting. The time line from City Council's request at its last meeting simply does not permit sufficient opportunity to properly address the range of issues involved.

I will be discussing with the Committee Administrator to ensure that notice is provided to interested parties at such time as the matter is dealt with.

Yours truly,


Andrew Koropeski, P.Eng.
Director, Toronto and East York District
Transportation Services
Email: akoropes@toronto.ca "

Send Andy an e-mail if you want to be on his mailing list for updates, and notice for any public consultation, or when it goes back to Committee & Council.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

What I think is ridiculous about the whole thing is that I could get ticketed every single day and it would only be marginally more expensive than buying a monthly pass.

Hell I might do it for the flexibility.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Why is it that every time I hear of a new idea being implemented in the 5hity of Toronto, it's always something that makes life worse, and not better?

Seriously, the only thing that I DON'T hate about Toronto is the free parking for motorcycles. If this is repealed, to whomever is in charge, they need to know that I will no longer be traveling to Toronto to spend any of my money. The loss in taxable revenues from my spending in Toronto will not be offset by the gain in revenues from what they would make on my parking.

Do this, Toronto, and it's the very last straw, you worthless piece of trash city. I'm glad a utter feceshole like Atlanta won the 1996 Olympics. Atlanta was literally the worst city I had ever been to, for a variety of reasons, but I'd rather they have the Olympics than a wannabe city like Toronto.

What a joke. Grow up, Toronto.

Mike
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

viper84737 said:
Why is it that every time I hear of a new idea being implemented in the 5hity of Toronto, it's always something that makes life worse, and not better?
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Because all of the decisions seem to be made based on political dogma, rather than logic and best practices. A prime example would be the bicycle lanes on Jarvis. Miller loved bicycles. Very few people rode bicycles on Jarvis but they decided that it made sense to remove the centre swap lane, one of the few ideas in Toronto that worked to improve traffic flow, in order to add bicycle lanes. I think I read somewhere that bicycle traffic had increased by something like 30%, while only increasing the travel time up Jarvis for cars by 8 minutes. That would make it seem like a win, right? Sure, until you realize that you're talking about increasing the travel time for hundreds of motor vehicles an hour, while only adding single digits of bicycles per hour.

Now you've got a more car friendly administration, but one that's also 'conservative' and 'cash starved.' The knee jerk reaction is to pull all of the 'freebies' that people are getting, without considering the logic involved. Again, dogma trumps logic. The existing system is unfair to motorcyclists, so we were given free parking in a quite limited type of location. The statement is that the free parking is to be removed, in order to treat all motorists the same way, but motorcyclists will not be treated in the same way. I can't remember ever hearing about a car's window being broken so that someone can take a street parking ticket, but they used to disappear from motorcycles all the time. S to treat all motorists the same would require a new system for parking. That costs money. The civic government is cash starved. Do you spend more money, to take in significantly less than that will cost, or do you wait until you can actually afford the new system?

I know what I'd do, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with political dogma.
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