Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
And we pretty much stopped expanding transit 20 years ago. Time to catch up.
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Well, yes and no. In Toronto proper, perhaps yes, except perhaps for the Sheppard subway. The Eglinton subway was all set 30 years ago and then Provincial and Municipal politics started the downward spiral. There are a lot of transit funding initiatives going on right now and I'm not sure all of them make sense. I hope the Province does the job right. There are some glaring shortcomings in the transit system that need to be addressed.
 
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

invictus43 said:
Yeah, but you'll take the subway. Transit is probably faster, more convenient and maybe even cheaper for you and that's one less car on the road. That's the way it should be.
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I live in Etobicoke and had a choice to make:
1) 1.5hr travel time using TTC (Bus, Train, Bus)
2) 35mins travel time using car/bike
It was cheaper (3x cheaper), but definitely not faster or more convenient. Also I'm not longer boiling with rage after every ride on the "rocket".
 
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

invictus43 said:
Yeah, but you'll take the subway. Transit is probably faster, more convenient and maybe even cheaper for you and that's one less car on the road. That's the way it should be.
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The cost and speed is comparable given free parking (only cause of my proximity to transit). If I have to pay for parking than it becomes about 4-5 times more expensive and makes zero sense.

From Mississauga taking the bike is marginally faster (maybe about 20%) and MUCH MUCH cheaper (about 40-50% cost) with free parking. If I had to pay for parking than it would be about 50% MORE expensive (so 150% cost) and still marginally faster. Even from Mississauga it's a bit difficult to justify the cost.

My point is, it's hard to justify the cost of commuting on the bike to DT if you have to pay for parking no matter where you live in the GTA. I think the closer you live to DT, the less sense it makes.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

AdRath said:
Between Ford and Jerry Agar it seems this city is destined to become the desolate wasteland that many American cities are rather than the active live world class city like we see over seas.

I can't get over the fact that they are complaining about vehicles being treated different based on size. It happens already and is the norm. Transports are restricted on speed and lane options because of size.

Rob Ford will take us backwards. Making motorcycle transportation less attractive will only increase single occupant car commuters and gridlock. Yeehaw.
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I don't understand, is this been done by Rob Ford? what does Rob Ford has to do with this counselor wanting to do this?

ANyways.......... I just read this today and will email mine, after all I did vote for him.
 
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

We should also get the dealerships behind this since it will effect their business and if it effects business this will be a priority for them.

Just before I was sending my email out to our Councillor of ward 44 I got the idea and since the owner of Snowcity Marine lives in my ward I thought I'd give them a call to see if they have heard anything about this.

I was spoke to one of the sales reps. She didn't know about this motion, when I told her she was quit the ears. She confirmed that after 2005 when the free parking came into effect for downtown they have seen a steady increase in interests/sales in bikes, and the reverse will definitely have an adverse effect on their business, she told me to put the owners on the cc line of the email since they will be interested in voicing their concern to the councillor as well.

In my email to councilor I mentioned the adverse effects to these business thus to the their employees whom also live in my ward. I also cced HD of Toronto although not in my ward perhaps with their economic muscle they can sway things as well.

I also cced Cycleworld Super Store...now get this they are in the same ward as budget chief Mike Del Grande! Maybe this will help although Mike made his mind up but come election time and when votes are in the line politicians move their words from right wing to left wing all the time. (I know that most voters in the area won't seem to concerned as we are a small number anyhow)

I suggest everyone send their councillors emails and phone calls as been echoed on this forum, and also cc any of the dealerships they know and also talk to their local dealerships, I'm sure they will be interested as it will directly will impact their business, and any dealership will confirm that sales are increasing since 2005 and this motion will impact them directly, especially the downtown scooter dealers.

Look people if we just lay hear and whine nothing will come of it...you might as well stop voting if you don't want to try to stand up for what you believe in. You might as well swap places with someone who wants their voice heard and would pay with their one life for that freedom like those in Syria, Egypt & Lebanon.

Just because you live in a democratic society (or think you do) doesn't mean anything if you just accept the leaders views every time.

At the very least just email or phone your councilor to put your name the the cause so you can ride another day....(into downtown smoggy sunset with-out being gorged for parking), maybe some day many years from now if we still enjoy this freedom you can say you were one of the freedom riders...You stood up for the cause to ride another day....;)
 
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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

whetaus-tr said:
"For me it has a lot to do with public safety. I have seen 750 cc and 1200 cc motorcycles roll onto the sidewalk while the engine is still on." as if we kill or injure a few citizens every other day.
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Well riding on the sidewalk is both wrong and illegal. Parking a motor vehicle on the sidewalk or boulevard is also illegal. I've mentioned, many times in the past, that it would be the people who do that sort of thing, that would result in the rest of us losing the benefits that The City of Toronto has given us. Sometimes I hate being right.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

whetaus-tr said:
"For me it has a lot to do with public safety. I have seen 750 cc and 1200 cc motorcycles roll onto the sidewalk while the engine is still on." as if we kill or injure a few citizens every other day.
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This woman is a tool....if on street parking is free, and parking anything larger than a scooter is illegal on a sidewalk, then already running your 750cc+ engine on the curb is illegal and there exists a free option on the other side of the curb! So now if we make the street charged parking, this would cause more popped curbs as we look for private properties that permit parking (for example Sheridan Hotel at Queen and Bay). If there was on street parking around there I wouldn't be popping any curbs to park in the private motorcycle bay. So it makes absolutely no sense to follow her rationale, other than she has a general hard on against motorcycles and wants to see them off the streets altogether.

No problem Wong...you'll have me back in my car in no time...or maybe I'll cycle in and take the whole damn lane. I'll be sure to go at a nice safe 15kph so I don't get killed by a door prize. After all safety first, and with a wheel diameter over 24" I can't be using pedestrian walk ways right? Safety first Wong, safety first.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

awyala said:
This woman is a tool....if on street parking is free, and parking anything larger than a scooter is illegal on a sidewalk, then already running your 750cc+ engine on the curb is illegal and there exists a free option on the other side of the curb! So now if we make the street charged parking, this would cause more popped curbs as we look for private properties that permit parking (for example Sheridan Hotel at Queen and Bay). If there was on street parking around there I wouldn't be popping any curbs to park in the private motorcycle bay. So it makes absolutely no sense to follow her rationale, other than she has a general hard on against motorcycles and wants to see them off the streets altogether.

No problem Wong...you'll have me back in my car in no time...or maybe I'll cycle in and take the whole damn lane. I'll be sure to go at a nice safe 15kph so I don't get killed by a door prize. After all safety first, and with a wheel diameter over 24" I can't be using pedestrian walk ways right? Safety first Wong, safety first.
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Also as I have mentioned many times, it's illegal for that scooter too. They could get all the money that they're looking for by pulling the free parking for motorcycles, just by tagging every illegally parked scooter in the city.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
Well riding on the sidewalk is both wrong and illegal. Parking a motor vehicle on the sidewalk or boulevard is also illegal. I've mentioned, many times in the past, that it would be the people who do that sort of thing, that would result in the rest of us losing the benefits that The City of Toronto has given us. Sometimes I hate being right.
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I have questioned at least 4 parking wardons over this issue because I can't understand why 50cc + petrol scooters don't get tickets for parking on curbs. I have been told in all instances that scooters are exempt. When I asked what the exemption was based on, being engine fuel (electric or petrol), or engine size, possibly 150cc and under, I was told in every instance "they are just allowed". In two cases I asked further if it was based on their engine location...scooters being mounted in the swing arm, to which the reply was an obviously ignorant "yes".

The fact is even the wardons are not properly educated and seem to be instructed to give scooters on sidewalks a pass.

It's no wonder there is so much of it going on and not their fault that this is happening now. It is the fault of a switched off and ignorant civil service who work on knee jerk ad hoc basis.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Rob MacLennan said:
Well riding on the sidewalk is both wrong and illegal. Parking a motor vehicle on the sidewalk or boulevard is also illegal. I've mentioned, many times in the past, that it would be the people who do that sort of thing, that would result in the rest of us losing the benefits that The City of Toronto has given us. Sometimes I hate being right.
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Not that I disagree with you and ride on a sidewalk on regular basis or anything, but I don't understand how people doing just that, can have an impact on going for a change in the "street" parking regulations.
 
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

soto said:
Half of the printed receipt is to be put on the dash, the other half is your proof of purchase. You're supposed to tear your half and keep it with you.

So... Anybody going to thank the mayor?
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Like republicans in the states, people are very misinformed in this board. It's like they hear something on fox and they believe it. Ford has nothing to do with this.

Is this counselor not caring about the revenue the city will lose from cars that normally would have paid for a parking ticket but now will just pick it up from a bike?
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

awyala said:
I have questioned at least 4 parking wardons over this issue because I can't understand why 50cc + petrol scooters don't get tickets for parking on curbs. I have been told in all instances that scooters are exempt. When I asked what the exemption was based on, being engine fuel (electric or petrol), or engine size, possibly 150cc and under, I was told in every instance "they are just allowed". In two cases I asked further if it was based on their engine location...scooters being mounted in the swing arm, to which the reply was an obviously ignorant "yes".

The fact is even the wardons are not properly educated and seem to be instructed to give scooters on sidewalks a pass.

It's no wonder there is so much of it going on and not their fault that this is happening now. It is the fault of a switched off and ignorant civil service who work on knee jerk ad hoc basis.
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There's a lot of disinformation and confusion on the matter, where parking control and City Hall are concerned. There would be none, if the people involved would just read the actual bylaws. The Star did a story on it, a while back.

http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/332546

whetaus-tr said:
Not that I disagree with you and ride on a sidewalk on regular basis or anything, but I don't understand how people doing just that, can have an impact on going for a change in the "street" parking regulations.
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Because you never notice the guy who's behaving in a reasonable manner. You notice the idiot. And unfortunately there are a lot of them.
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

Toronto postpones vote to end to free parking for motorcycles and scooters. You have time to do something about it. It appears the reason http://esr.cc/uvKfbh

"I'm more concerned about the use of public space by really large motorcycles," says Kristyn Wong-Tam (Ward 27, Toronto Centre-Rosedale), who seconded the motion moved by Mike Del Grande (Ward 39, Scarborough-Agincourt). Wong-Tam says her main concern is motorcycles using sidewalks as parking spaces, and how they get there—the largest motorcycles almost by definition have to be ridden under power up over the curb when they're parked on sidewalks, something Wong-Tam says she sees regularly in her ward.

If 27 year old Kristyn Wong-Tam is in your Ward - take the time to send her a note!
 
Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

EatSleepRIDE said:
If 27 year old Kristyn Wong-Tam is in your Ward - take the time to send her a note!
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You can use the direct route: http://ward27news.ca/contact

But don't hold your breath, Wong-Tam is an ultra lefty and thinks motorcycles are evil, profile sample:

"As a tireless community advocate, Councillor Wong-Tam has championed for the expansion of green public spaces, farmers' markets, community gardens including improvements to parks and ravines. She has lead efforts to defend the rights of tenants to obtain affordable and decent standards of rental housing and helped create a neighbourhood association to preserve and protect heritage buildings and historical landscapes in the ward."
 
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Re: City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

A couple points to make.

When composing your letters, it may be useful to incorporate existing precedent. The current by-law acknowledges that parking spaces can fit three motorcycles. Would it be fair for them to turn around and say motorcycles pay for one space and use one space? This is a grand contradiction.

“(4) Despite anything else in this § 400-42, up to three motorcycles may be parked in a parking space, provided
that no person shall park a motorcycle in a parking space at an angle greater than sixty (60) degrees to the curb.”

Also note that in the days before residential parking permits were free, we motorcyclists were charged 50% of the rate that a car driver was charged. See above statement regarding contradiction.

As well, the issue of stolen or otherwise removed or damaged pay and display tickets is not going to go way. How could it? The system in place relies on having vehicle with a lockable cockpit -- by design (and I am not suggesting that it was deliberate) they have created a system that they cannot adequately enforce (for motorcycles). Each time a pay-and-display ticket is stolen or otherwise not present, I can very rightfully go down to the parking tags unit at City Hall and request to fight the ticket having kept my receipt. Chances are, if it makes it to a hearing, it is going to be dismissed. The problem is that this will cost me an enormous amount of time if it is repetitive (would wouldn't it be? -- broken system). What will the clerical and court cost be? So unless they implement transponders for motorcycles, or something to this effect, how is pay-and-display ever going to be enforcible?

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...sg=AFQjCNE7useJKUY996DFHMF6068OxWt6pw&cad=rja
 
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Face said:
I've just spoken with the Clerk's department and the 2/3 votes, if approved will only implement the recommendations to study & report back. It would not pass a by-law today! If they are not approved, the motion would get a public notice and be heard by the next Works & Transportation Committee, where the public can speak to it. This item has not been heard by Council yet, and people can e-mail the Clerks department right now, and they will bring the e-mails to the attention of Council members. The e-mail address is clerk@toronto.ca Let's at least try to get the 2/3rds votes defeated so that we can speak to Committee and hopefully encourage them to not waste staff's time on this whole silly exercise. The Clerk's Department will be looking out for our e-mails!
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It's 7:25 and Council still has not dealt with this item. They have received e-mails from 7 of us. Thanks guys, please keep them coming!

BTW, if Councillor Del Grande's motion passes, staff will have to report to Public Works & Infrastructure on January 4th in order to make the February Council deadline. That means "0" public consultation & some poor staff schmuck is going to have to deal with this over the holidays. Not what I would call fair consideration of the issue. Clearly Del Grande was trying to sneak this one through without anyone noticing. Please lend your voice & send Council an e-mail!
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