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More than 120,000 federal public servants across Canada, has voted in favour of a strike
- Thread starter Jampy00
- Start date
12.6% over 4 years doesn’t seem outlandish to me.
I say that, as my raises are 1-2% working for the province…
What's fair?
To keep the individual from going belly up raises should match inflation but everyone's rate of inflation is different. If you commute from Barrie to TO daily your rate will be significantly different from the person that lives and works downtown, riding a bicycle on roads paid for car drivers.
Owning a house is hidden tax free long term income. Rent isn't.
WFH has a lot of potential savings with wardrobe, transportation, day care, meals and personal time.
From the employer's point of view "I'm paying $XX per hour. You figure out how to make it work."
About the only time most people look at their financial situation realistically is when their kid is in an emergency room. Suddenly the new boat, car, house or trip doesn't mean a lot.
So when they were trying to raise public sentiment, average salary was something like 60K. Now that they have secured a 12.6% raise, average pay increased by 11K to show what a good job they did. Something does not compute.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I guess that needs to be put into perspective. A call center operator in Sudbury or Summerside with Gr 12 starts at $53, and after 5 years would be at $58. With the raises, they jump to $60 & $66K respectively. by next year.
A job with similar complexity, responsibility, and benefits would be a call center rep at a big bank in Toronto. Reps start at $40K and after 5 years can expect to make $50K.
So... considering bankers are near the top end for a call center rep in the private sector... gov't workers getting a 4% annual raise on top of a salary that's already 30% above the high watermark in the private sector leaves me scratching my head.
Can a person in one of those locations survive on those rates?
In the 1950's a one bread winner was considered normal. Now it's two with daycare becoming the parent. What is considered a normal sustainable wage for a normal person and why do only special interest groups (Unions) get the upgrade?
As A.I. gets better many of these positions will disappear. Right now I find A.I. call centres frustrating because my problem has to match their pigeon holes. That is changing.
Interesting question. No easy answer. Should all government employees make a living wage even when not all citizens can? I think the answer is no. I think government jobs should pay less than private sector because they are far more stable.
sburns
Well-known member
I don't think that is right. I believe Gov jobs are meant to demostrate to the priviate sector and future employees what employment should be like in terms of workloads, benefits and generally taking care of your employee, instead of just using them and discarding them when you don't need them.
If by definition government employees make more and they make up >30% of employees in the country, how do you fund that? We are quickly reaching the edge of the spiral. Keep asking more from less and eventually it collapses.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Thing is we don't live in the 50s -- if you want to reframe gov't work from those days government-sector workers would receive lower wages than the private sector in exchange for more generous benefits (i.e. pensions) and job security.
I think the point here isn't comparing now to the 50's it's now to now -- gov't vs private sector.
Statistics Canada data (for Ontario workers) indicates wages are 34.4% higher, on average than wages in the private sector. Wages are just a part of overall compensation, gov workers also enjoy significantly better job security and non-wage benefits.
What benefits do the public (taxpayers) gain or lose by inflating employment costs in the public sector? The losses are certainly identifiable -- higher taxes, and increased competition for scarce workers.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Hmmm. Karl Marx suggests that clears the path to a full socialist state.
When the gov's thumb presses too hard on the scales of wages, supply of goods, and labor for production, free markets, and capitalism starts to fail.
When a free market collapses there are no smiles.
sburns
Well-known member
I'm not in disagreement there, it's a fine balancing act. I did disagree with the suggestion they should not earn a living wage.
Also I am not in agreement with them getting a raise because the union is able to hold the gov hostage and they have the right to bargain because of a deadline, rather then based on necessity and or performance, and they didn't lose 1 pay cheque over the Pandemic where as in private it wasn't the case.
You still didnt answer the funding question. If every government employee has the right to a living wage, how does that get funded? The math is easy, the answers are hard. For instance, we could implement your plan but need to cut 40% of the jobs to remain on budget. Is that better for the country? I don't know.
sburns
Well-known member
I don't know either, gov seems to run without any real budgets in mind. Maybe they receive too much our money in taxes and honestly we should clamp that down. I mean somehow they can keep worker wages somewhat in check, but yet stuff like building some subway tracks in Toronto get totally blown to hell.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
And
Considering that Call Center rep I like to reference now starts around $60K and has a benefit package worth $20K means an entry level gov't job is paying close to 2x a living wage.
According to most sources, living wages are about $23 in the GTA and $20/hr outside for a job with no material benefits. I don't think there is a single gov't job in Canada that pays less than that...
Considering that Call Center rep I like to reference now starts around $60K and has a benefit package worth $20K means an entry level gov't job is paying close to 2x a living wage.
I just can't get past the striker I saw on the news moaning about him and his wife not being able to afford a house on their combined $120K salary. Poor things. I have the feels.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I don't think it's that way.
Public servants are paid with the People's money... so it's understandable that the People paying for the services might have some concerns when the productivity metrics are whack when compared to the private sector.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Sudbury or Summerside at $53K is a joke to make it work.
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