48Connor
Well-known member
Your call center example is an extreme case of someone with zero education benefitting. On actually skilled roles (engineers, finance, lawyers) they are making less.
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More than 120,000 federal public servants across Canada, has voted in favour of a strike
- Thread starter Jampy00
- Start date
Your call center example is an extreme case of someone with zero education benefitting. On actually skilled roles (engineers, finance, lawyers) they are making less.
So a negotiation is a good time to fix the inequity. If skilled roles are paid too low to fill the seats, increase comp in those roles and freeze comp in overpaid roles to allow market to catch up (or have a step in pay where new hires make substantially less).
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Extreme case? The educational bar isn't that high for most of the civil service, and for the most part the lion's share of their workforce is in roles that don't require much if any formal education.
It's always hard to compare professional roles between the public service and private sector as the traditional gov't job tradeoff still exists. Think about it for a second... why would an engineer or CPA take a gov't gig over a more lucrative private sector job? It's simple -- in the higher-skill professions, there are still plenty of people that are willing to trade salary for Gov job security, generous benefits, and lower productivity expectations.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
ftfu - they just got a raise.
I think this is likely the case here. I know I have been offered public sector jobs many times over my career, all at a significant pay cut for the same level. Everyone I know that has gone to (even very recently) and/or is currently working in the public sector is making below what they could or did in private. All are educated professionals (many in those three quoted with accounting as a fourth) not call centres or other unskilled workers, those I have no idea.
Personally I have been offered some very interesting civil servant opportunities, but the pay cut was a no-go for me. The pay grades are and still are not compelling for most professionals.
48Connor
Well-known member
In my industry, the guy working for the crown corp is making 10-25% less (depending on years of service) than the guy doing the exact same job in the private sector. Both are engineering jobs and are part of the same union, just different collective agreements.
Many people I know in the private sector go into public, make some connections and gain experience (on the other side) and then return to private sector for a much higher salary because they’re now ‘experienced in public sector’.
This is my plan, just depends on how long I do this role.
This is my plan, just depends on how long I do this role.
Total comp or salary? The number of private firms with defined benefit is very small. Sadly, from an employee perspective, they rarely see total comp and only really know about salary.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Why do you think so many skilled workers are willing to work for the crown? Certainly, experience is a factor for younger workers.... but if you dig deeper you might find there are some good reasons gov't workers are willing to take the salary tradeoff.
As mentioned by others, and myself. Work life balance, salary, stability (unless DOFO or JT fire a lot of us), and of course…the pension. That sweet sweet OMERS pension that pays me 65% of my best 5 years indexed to inflation.
And my wife gets a % if I die.
Stop the incessant thinking. It annoys the realists.
In the 50's a tradesman could buy a house in TO for three years gross wages. If the parents were generous and let the kid live rent free at home until he got his journeyman's papers he could almost pay cash for a house and put up the white picket fence.
Travel becomes almost impossible for most in the private sector because they can't afford travel medical insurance in their senior years. I know of a couple in the public sector that went south for months just after major surgery.
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~30% directly collecting from the government in wages. Add the seniors with CPP, OAS and GIS as another government dependent group. Then there are the homeless programs, the drug programs, housing assisted, special needs types, the rights programs many of which are government funded.
GTAM members are supporting the whole bloody country.
Some of the seniors programs are theoretically self funded. You are basically getting your money back. Some poor policies and mismanagement mean that doesnt function quite as advertised.
If a time machine made me 25 again but living in 2023 that would be me. Instead, I bought my first house 50 years ago with a small inheritance for a down payment. I was single and the house was worth about five times my modest annual salary.
You can't buy a semi in TO for $400 K and your mortgage isn't fixed for 25 years @ 5%.
We have to change our cap gain situation. Every home buyer b*****s about prices until they get their first home and then brag about the killing they're making on their investment. You can't have both.
There are solutions but people want their cake but still want to eat it.
Own the house but lease the land
Opt out of the tax free cap gain and claim interest as a tax deduction.
When I started to work I was more concerned about cash in my hand on payday than benefits. As I aged I saw the value of benefits. When you're young and healthy, take the cash and plant financial seeds. When appropriate, start looking at future funding.
Other than defined benefit pension, I agree with you. You dont see many private sector workers retiring in their early 50's with pension/savings that are good for 70k+ for the rest of your life (and 50k+ to your spouse if they outlive you).
I've said it before, we need to somewhat separate the investment side of housing from the dwelling side. Something like the small business program with a lifetime limit on cap gain exemption seems decent to me. If you have made over xxx on housing (500k, 1M? Open for discussion) you've got your share of the pie and every thing else is a taxable capital gain.
I have no idea for federal in the context of this thread, for OMERS etc. in Ontario over 10% of the person's gross income goes to pension, the sweet deal is the gov matches the amount put in by the worker (so funded half and half). But it is not some total feebee that in this context the gov employee gets.
New entrants into defined benefit is a rare bird in the private sector but the ones I have participated or seen the worker does not pay anywhere near half--really closer to a freebee model. Defined contribution is typically half and half in private... (ie employer matched).... ironically.
New entrants into defined benefit is a rare bird in the private sector but the ones I have participated or seen the worker does not pay anywhere near half--really closer to a freebee model. Defined contribution is typically half and half in private... (ie employer matched).... ironically.
In the private sector Wingboy pointed out that he gets sweet P all from everything his lady put into the system.
Do the math and find out how bad it gets if you are old, become single and don't have a fat piggy bank.
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