Minimum Wage Increase | Page 8 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Minimum Wage Increase

I'm not for universal income , ever. I'm not moving to Norway or Sweden where everyone is very happy , I like a system where I make what I make because of what I do.
Social systems and minimum wages that allow people to live, not drive a porche, but rent an apartment and have groceries and health care is completely needed IMO.
Paying Fred to be a crossing guard and make what a bank mortgage broker makes? Welcome to Cuba. I'm no socialist.

I keep hearing the "In Scandinavia they have blah, blah, blah" and how we should copy them.

It isn't that simple. It's like telling a short person to grow taller. Europe is made up of old countries with centuries of history, ethics and culture. Available land was non-existent.

North America is new and until about a hundred years ago reasonable land was to a degree, there for the asking. A hundred years later the only cheap or free land is in moose pasture.

A century and a half ago a guy could wander off into the bush with an ax, shovel, rifle and bag of seeds and a year or two later have a cabin in a clearing with a garden and some furs to sell. Moving to the city fifty years later, he could get a job in any number of occupations as few required more than basic reading and math skills.

Fast forward another fifty years and the jobs at the mill are more complex and following in dad's shoes of minimal education doesn't work anymore.

"But I have the right to a job so I can afford a house, car, toys and trophy wife". We have rested too long on our laurels, forgetting to include responsibility in our lifestyles. Try backing that truck-train down a narrow political alley.

Our politicians have long since stopped being our guardians and have taken the easier route of being the equivalents of drug pushers. What you want, not what you need is what gets them elected.

I'm a socialist at heart but when there is no hope of continuing down the welfare road some triage decisions will have to be made. If it's OK to dump a high failure rate person in the ditch because of Covid is it unreasonable to do the same for those that can't help themselves socially?

Sadly that includes those that are in those positions due to abuse by others. How do we fix that?
 
Last edited:
I'm not for universal income , ever. I'm not moving to Norway or Sweden where everyone is very happy , I like a system where I make what I make because of what I do.
Social systems and minimum wages that allow people to live, not drive a porche, but rent an apartment and have groceries and health care is completely needed IMO.
Paying Fred to be a crossing guard and make what a bank mortgage broker makes? Welcome to Cuba. I'm no socialist.

What is a living wage? I was talking to a young lady at a fast food place in Kitchener yesterday and they just moved from a four bedroom house in Delhi @ $900 a month to a two bedroom apartment in KW @ $1500 a month. The living wage has to be done practically street by street. Hire another zillion civil servants.

Where do you draw the line on blame?

The politicians you elected so their fault?

The politicians your parents elected so your parents fault?

Failed marriage? Who made the choice?

Picking blame gets really ugly.
 
This seems appropriate in response to @nobbie48 's post...

View attachment 52101
Meanwhile they all just stand around pointing and nobody tries to make a change to improve things. At this point, imo it doesn't really matter how we got here. Lots of things contributed. The reasonable question is now what? Honestly, I think the split between haves and have nots will continue to grow very quickly (roughly along home ownership lines but not entirely locked to that line). Does some/all levels of government go on a social-housing binge? Price it like LTC where they take 30% of your income and provide an apartment? Lots of problems every way I look at those type of programs. Lots of problems if we leave things as they are and renters are literally struggling to eat.
 
Macro, micro, street by street....

On a slightly micro level, I really want to live in Rosedale but I do not make enough money, should the government help me out? My only option is to live where I can afford to live.... is that fair?

On a more macro level, for the population in general, maybe the GTHA, maybe all of Southern Ontario are too expensive, but other parts of the province and country are still affordable. If people did that, it reduces real estate demand in peak areas and creates labour shortages that will increase competition and wages (laws of supply and demand). Areas that are depressed now will come up.... Or the government should get involved and throw some cash around or try to manipulate the economics in some other way?

BTW, I know many people that have done just that, migrated to a place where the economics worked better for them. Some 1000s of kms.
 
What is a living wage? I was talking to a young lady at a fast food place in Kitchener yesterday and they just moved from a four bedroom house in Delhi @ $900 a month to a two bedroom apartment in KW @ $1500 a month. The living wage has to be done practically street by street. Hire another zillion civil servants.

Where do you draw the line on blame?

The politicians you elected so their fault?

The politicians your parents elected so your parents fault?

Failed marriage? Who made the choice?

Picking blame gets really ugly.
What is a living wage? That's complicated but's lets focus on able-bodied people who can participate in the workforce. . I always look at 50% of your gross income being the cost of rent+HLW. That means if you are single in the GTA, a room will cost between $500-700 in the GTA, your gross income would need to be $1000-1400/mo. At the moment the least one could make in the GTA would be $15x40*4 or $2400. A single parent would struggle on this, but a single, or couple with 2 kids would get by. Life would not be bougie, but shelter and food would be there.

Assigning blame is a pointless exercise. At the end of the day able-bodied individuals decide where they want to be in the social strata.
 
Meanwhile they all just stand around pointing and nobody tries to make a change to improve things. At this point, imo it doesn't really matter how we got here. Lots of things contributed. The reasonable question is now what? Honestly, I think the split between haves and have nots will continue to grow very quickly (roughly along home ownership lines but not entirely locked to that line). Does some/all levels of government go on a social-housing binge? Price it like LTC where they take 30% of your income and provide an apartment? Lots of problems every way I look at those type of programs. Lots of problems if we leave things as they are and renters are literally struggling to eat.
I guess I have to ask where renters are struggling to eat? There are 2500 apartments in the Kijiji sample below, the sweet spot is between $1000 and $2400/mo inside a 20km radius of City Hall Toronto.

That certainly doesn't look un affordable to me.

1636143034641.png
 
I guess I have to ask where renters are struggling to eat? There are 2500 apartments in the Kijiji sample below, the sweet spot is between $1000 and $2400/mo inside a 20km radius of City Hall Toronto.

That certainly doesn't look un affordable to me.


If it's anything like Vancouver.... I wouldn't let my dog live in a $1000 place.
 
I guess I have to ask where renters are struggling to eat? There are 2500 apartments in the Kijiji sample below, the sweet spot is between $1000 and $2400/mo inside a 20km radius of City Hall Toronto.

That certainly doesn't look un affordable to me.

View attachment 52102
I honestly havent looked at rents lately. The last time I looked at apartment rents, my wife was paying >$1000 a month for a crappy bachelor at Jarvis and Bloor over 15 years ago. I figured things haven't gotten better since then. I have a suspicion that many of the $1000 options are rooms in a shared dwelling. I did that for a while when I first graduated but it is very far from good.
 
My one daughter rents a one bedroom apartment right on Bloor, steps from Christie Pits. $1500/month and its quite nice.
 
My Cuban friend stated that although she could be, not all Cubans can be dentists/Dr's. Someone has to be the garbage man.

We can't all afford live in Toronto so make a viable plan and stick with it. I wanted to go to uni in Toronto but couldn't afford it so Peterborough was close enough.

My first min wage job was $3.65. The jobs are not meant to be a career - for student, retirees, part timers etc. If your plan is to live on minimum wage for the rest of your then it is a terrible one.
 
My Cuban friend stated that although she could be, not all Cubans can be dentists/Dr's. Someone has to be the garbage man.

We can't all afford live in Toronto so make a viable plan and stick with it. I wanted to go to uni in Toronto but couldn't afford it so Peterborough was close enough.

My first min wage job was $3.65. The jobs are not meant to be a career - for student, retirees, part timers etc. If your plan is to live on minimum wage for the rest of your then it is a terrible one.
Early in life with a wife and kid we did have a decent amount of Toronto house equity. The game plan was to minimize paying for life insurance. My wife was from a small town and if something happened to me she would comfortable with selling in Toronto and moving to a smaller place (Peterborough was discussed) and buying a same size home with money left over for investments. The insurance salesman's reply was "You wouldn't want her to lower her standards would you???"

Why is living in a 1500 SF house in Peterborough (City water, transit, stores, hospital, police, fire, ambulance , schools, fresh air, parks, etc) a lower standard than living in Toronto?
 
Early in life with a wife and kid we did have a decent amount of Toronto house equity. The game plan was to minimize paying for life insurance. My wife was from a small town and if something happened to me she would comfortable with selling in Toronto and moving to a smaller place (Peterborough was discussed) and buying a same size home with money left over for investments. The insurance salesman's reply was "You wouldn't want her to lower her standards would you???"

Why is living in a 1500 SF house in Peterborough (City water, transit, stores, hospital, police, fire, ambulance , schools, fresh air, parks, etc) a lower standard than living in Toronto?
We have been lazy and put off life insurance. A few acquaintances dropping dead has us cleaning that up now. I don't know what it will cost yet but I am not looking forward to the bill.

I agree about your assessment of standard of living. If you move from an ok Toronto neighbourhood to an ok peterborough neighbourhood, you probably stepped up in terms of standards as distances to all amenities are likely shorter in petey. Similar for dodgy neighbourhood to dodgy neighbourhood.
 
We have been lazy and put off life insurance. A few acquaintances dropping dead has us cleaning that up now. I don't know what it will cost yet but I am not looking forward to the bill.

I agree about your assessment of standard of living. If you move from an ok Toronto neighbourhood to an ok peterborough neighbourhood, you probably stepped up in terms of standards as distances to all amenities are likely shorter in petey. Similar for dodgy neighbourhood to dodgy neighbourhood.
I also put it off unfortunately. Instead of paying $40/month for $1,000,000 I’m paying $84/month for $500,000. Double the payment for $1,000,000.

Mind you I had to go through hoops and medical exams with interviews with my doctors and surgeons following my cancer diagnosis and treatment.

EDIT: I know some friends who put life insurance on their kids...not sure how I feel about it. But apparently the kids get a payout at year X, so it may help? Not sure.
 
Just for grins I throw this out.

I worked at a Habitat for Humanity ReStore. Our shirts proclaimed "everyone deserves a decent place to live". Most people working there did not earn enough to qualify for HFH's own low cost mortgage. I always thought that was hypocritical.
 
I also put it off unfortunately. Instead of paying $40/month for $1,000,000 I’m paying $84/month for $500,000. Double the payment for $1,000,000.

Mind you I had to go through hoops and medical exams with interviews with my doctors and surgeons following my cancer diagnosis and treatment.

EDIT: I know some friends who put life insurance on their kids...not sure how I feel about it. But apparently the kids get a payout at year X, so it may help? Not sure.
The rule with life insurance is "only insure the bread winner".
 
The rule with life insurance is "only insure the bread winner".
Typically yes. My wife’s insurance for $250k is ‘only’ $40/month so we’re ok with that. If I croak first she gets to pay off the house with some left over. I’m not financing the next guys lifestyle.

If she croaks first then we can still make do but obviously other costs would come to light which would be covered by that.

I may up mine to $1,000,000 though just to make sure they’re covered.
 
I also put it off unfortunately. Instead of paying $40/month for $1,000,000 I’m paying $84/month for $500,000. Double the payment for $1,000,000.

Mind you I had to go through hoops and medical exams with interviews with my doctors and surgeons following my cancer diagnosis and treatment.

EDIT: I know some friends who put life insurance on their kids...not sure how I feel about it. But apparently the kids get a payout at year X, so it may help? Not sure.
Thanks for some numbers, I didn't really know what to expect. We need coverage in that ballpark. If we'd stayed in our old house, we probably would have been ok with nothing (although we may have gone crazy as 1000 sq ft is great for a couple but not great for multiple kids and covid lockdowns).

I'm with Tim, kids don't need life insurance. My wife and I need life insurance to keep the house of cards up. Unfortunately, although current house increases equity by more than we make in salary, to keep the house of cards up we need two incomes (or insurance to cover the lost income). If a kid dies, it's tragic and has short-term implications on cash flow as parents likely have trouble working but over a longer period it probably improves the families financial situation. That assumes the marriage survives the death but if it doesn't I doubt there would have been enough insurance on the kid to fix that financial mess. With the wording though, was that kids as beneficiary on a policy that covers the parents? That's ok but unnecessary imo. Cover the surviving spouse and they can make decisions in the future on how to support the children. Dropping 100K into the lap of a young adult often does more harm than good.

My FIL is getting quite old and maintains a policy to cover estate taxes so the amount he has saved gets passed down to the next generation without getting decimated. I'm not convinced of that route but whatever, it's their money.

Friend of a friend (born in 87) dropped dead last week. Two young kids. No life insurance. Building a new house with cashflow. Gofundme was set up 3 days ago. Crossed 100K today. For better or worse, imo the campaign was successful in a large part due to the appearance of the family.

Our current situation is not tragic without insurance but ideally you want to minimize the disruption on the kids if they've just lost a parent. We could dump this house and get somewhere adequate to live with no mortgage. The remaining income is then sufficient to keep things going. Insurance avoids that mess and allows for some time off work to get your head straight.
 
Last edited:
Let me go dig through my files this week @GreyGhost and can get you actual numbers. I believe (it's been a while) we're signed up for a 25-30 year term insurance.

The way I see it, at that stage in life I'm (hopefully) out of any type of debts and won't need insurance any longer. Until then...
 
When we bought the house we did 400K term on each of us for 20 years. Not enough to fully pay off the home day one but with other life insurance including from work it would get the job done. Of course if one of us died day one it would be tight, decade later much less is needed and we took that into consideration at the time. A bit of risk management, being slightly under insured day one vs way over insured a decade or more later and still paying a higher monthly rate. House will be fully paid well before it ends.

The younger you start the lower the rates. Lots of risk in waiting, specially if you try to get it after health issues creep up, at min the rates go up the older you start. Lots of people dislike them but I also have a separate hybrid full life policy I pulled in my mid 20s. Rate is really cheap as I started early, 150K payout and I get some cash back in the end... less than a few pints a month in cost. Not a great investment but I have many worse ones....

The worst deal out there is life insurance as part of your mortgage. Rates usually stay flat but it pays out less each month as the mortgage gets paid down!
 

Back
Top Bottom