List of guns in the ban proposal USA

[FiReSTaRT]

Forum Sponsor

and not allowing you to sell your guns to anyone on a street corner for cash? Not exactly defensible.

Perfectly defensible and well within our Canadian values, hence Bill C-19. All of my guns were bought without any background checks. All I had to do was show my PAL and in one case I didn't even have to do that (but that was at a pretty uptight range where I already had one rifle and was chatting it up with the event director). They're all enjoying their paper-murdering careers and none of them have ever been pointed at a human being since I took possession of them, tyvm

 

[OpenGambit]

Perfectly defensible and well within our Canadian values, hence Bill C-19. All of my guns were bought without any background checks. All I had to do was show my PAL and in one case I didn't even have to do that (but that was at a pretty uptight range where I already had one rifle and was chatting it up with the event director). They're all enjoying their paper-murdering careers and none of them have ever been pointed at a human being since I took possession of them, tyvm

you have a PAL. Are you telling me that doesn't involve a background check?

you are endorsing a regime where you can purchase a gun without a licence or check of any kind, and also sell it to anyone you want for cash...
really? Cool. So lets just let every insane deranged mentally ill criminal buy guns, that makes so much sense.

So you think that you should be able to offer your gun to the guy standing in your street corner whenever you are short a few bucks?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

you have a PAL. Are you telling me that doesn't involve a background check?

you are endorsing a regime where you can purchase a gun without a licence or check of any kind, and also sell it to anyone you want for cash...
really? Cool. So lets just let every insane deranged mentally ill criminal buy guns, that makes so much sense.

So you think that you should be able to offer your gun to the guy standing in your street corner whenever you are short a few bucks?

I never said I was against background checks. I am for them within the licensing process but not every time you need to buy a gun. We also have laws against unlicensed people buying guns and I'd do my due diligence to make sure the buyer is licensed to own a firearm by taking a look at his PAL.

 

[OpenGambit]

I said that its stupid that in some states in the US you can buy a gun without a licence or a check, and then turn it around and sell it to a criminal for cash. That isn't defensible.

you said thats consistent with our Canadian values.

and now you are ok with background checks. So you are still ok with me taking all the guns in my safe and selling them at jane and finch for small bills?


Pretty damn easy to be a law abiding gun owner when there aren't even laws against selling to criminals.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I said that its stupid that in some states in the US you can buy a gun without a licence or a check, and then turn it around and sell it to a criminal for cash. That isn't defensible

I agree with you on that point, but I don't believe that the law should be the only thing preventing one from it. There is such a thing as social responsibility. If I wanted to sell a rifle to a criminal, there'd be no prospect of conviction if he got caught committing a crime with it, since a rifle could change hands 10, 20, 50, 1000 times without it being recorded by anyone. The reason I only sell to licensed firearm owners is that I don't wanna live in a country where thugs have easy access to firearms (even though it's still cheaper/easier for them than for us), so I do my part as a law-abiding citizen to make sure it doesn't happen.

Pretty damn easy to be a law abiding gun owner when there aren't even laws against selling to criminals.

We have laws against it but as I said, how can you convict someone if a rifle could have changed hands a whole bunch of time between me and the criminal, assuming there's even a paper trail tying that rifle to me? I'll do my part to keep my backyard clean but sometimes you just gotta stop trying to legislate every action and treat people as adults.

 

[OpenGambit]

I agree with you on that point, but I don't believe that the law should be the only thing preventing one from it. There is such a thing as social responsibility. If I wanted to sell a rifle to a criminal, there'd be no prospect of conviction if he got caught committing a crime with it, since a rifle could change hands 10, 20, 50, 1000 times without it being recorded by anyone. The reason I only sell to licensed firearm owners is that I don't wanna live in a country where thugs have easy access to firearms (even though it's still cheaper/easier for them than for us), so I do my part as a law-abiding citizen to make sure it doesn't happen.

Hey thats great if you think people should be responsible. Thats wonderful.

What does that have to do with your statement that being able to buy guns without checks and being able to sell it to anyone you want being consistent with Canadian principles? What its clearly not.

The fact is, right now, in lots of states in the US, if the hells angels want to set up a booth next to a government buyback offering 5 bucks more per gun, they can, and thats stupid, and people that oppose common sense laws making that illegal are also stupid.

I don't really care what you personally do with your guns, thats not the point at all. Or do you think it sbest to just throw out the criminal code and everyone can just be socially responsible? lets just make drunk driving legal and rely on everyone to be adults.

 

[OpenGambit]

We have laws against it but as I said, how can you convict someone if a rifle could have changed hands a whole bunch of time between me and the criminal, assuming there's even a paper trail tying that rifle to me? I'll do my part to keep my backyard clean but sometimes you just gotta stop trying to legislate every action and treat people as adults.

Many states in the US don't. I was talking about the US. Piers morgan was talking about the US, and there is no second amendment here. didn't you just say up there that selling guns to anyone you want was defensible and within Canadian values? and now you say its illegal?
Maybe just your values?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I am saying that the ability to sell guns to anyone without a paper trace is within Canadian values as it recognizes the responsibility placed on us - responsible owners - to do our part in keeping our backyard clean. As I mentioned, there are millions of Canadians with the ability to sell their firearms without a paper trace and plenty of plausible deniability. We don't do it because we're the most responsible segment of the society, least likely to commit a criminal act and have plenty of social conscience, as a group. What Morgan and his ilk are lobbying for is having every transaction go through a government machinery. Bill C-19 proves that Canada won't stand for that B.S. when it comes to hunting and sporting arms.

 

[OpenGambit]

I am saying that the ability to sell guns to anyone without a paper trace is within Canadian values as it recognizes the responsibility placed on us - responsible owners - to do our part in keeping our backyard clean. As I mentioned, there are millions of Canadians with the ability to sell their firearms without a paper trace and plenty of plausible deniability. We don't do it because we're the most responsible segment of the society, least likely to commit a criminal act and have plenty of social conscience, as a group. What Morgan and his ilk are lobbying for is having every transaction go through a government machinery. Bill C-19 proves that Canada won't stand for that B.S. when it comes to hunting and sporting arms.

What you quoted is right up there. That has nothing to do with what you are saying now.

I own guns. I don't try to pretend that makes me more responsible though, because that is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.

Lastly, criminals don't need to buy longguns from lawful owners in Canada, they have plenty of handguns that they can buy that come from across the border. Its easy not to cheat on your wife when there are no options to do so. Talk about confusing lack of opportunity with morality.

Its wonderful that you love to pat yourself on the back about how you own guns and that makes you a better person, but advocating that when one of these people with "plenty of social conscience" decides to go sell a gun to a convicted felon, they should suffer no consequences whatever is ridiculous.

 

[RockerGuy]

I own guns. I don't try to pretend that makes me more responsible though, because that is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.

Nerf don't qualify

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I was speaking statistically. Canadian gun owners are the least likely group to commit a criminal offense. They have been pre-screened (which I am in favour of) and have taken responsibility to enjoy their hobby in a safe and non-disruptive manner. That is what I am talking about.

 

[OpenGambit]

I was speaking statistically. Canadian gun owners are the least likely group to commit a criminal offense. They have been pre-screened (which I am in favour of) and have taken responsibility to enjoy their hobby in a safe and non-disruptive manner. That is what I am talking about.

Laws are for everyone, even for people that are "statstically unlikely to commit crimes". Thats like saying Cops should be exempt from laws because they are statistically less likely to commit crimes. They are also prescreened. That statment is clearly ridiculous. The law has never been about legislating moral behaviour, just minimally acceptable standards. Statistically unlikely is a pretty weak *** reason to not legislate something.

There is no pre-screening in the US. So no. having people that have not been screened at any level selling handguns to other people that haven't been screened at any level is NOT consistent with Canadian values or law.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

That is why I'm pro pre-screening. However, with our current legal framework, one has the ability to make a dark sale with relative ease and get away with it because the government decided to put a bit of trust in the responsible citizens (too little of that happening nowadays). I agree with the second part of your statement.

 

[OpenGambit]

This is the kind of thing I am talking about.

The safeguards in the US are not used. People that take gun rights seriously should have a vested interest in keeping them out of the hands of ppl that shouldn't have them, but many don't.

I note that Texas actually sets a good example. Thats the kind of thing I think we should see in gun laws. People shouldn't be against common sense restrictions on tools that are designed to kill people.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/health/mental-illness-guns/index.html?hpt=ju_c1

Forum Sponsor