Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Baggsy said:
Funny thing, when I was little, every second kid wanted to be a cop.

What has changed since then?
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I was thinking the same thing. I got to thinking that something has changed since "the good ole days" then I quickly realized that LEO's were the most corrupt participants in Prohibition, The Wild West, etc...

Maybe the charm and ideals are only appealing to children who rarely have any insight into "the other side"?
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

eastcoast_gsx said:
I was thinking the same thing. I got to thinking that something has changed since "the good ole days" then I quickly realized that LEO's were the most corrupt participants in Prohibition, The Wild West, etc...

Maybe the charm and ideals are only appealing to children who rarely have any insight into "the other side"?
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It might also have something to do with the rise of thugs as heroes, in the last 20 years.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

eastcoast_gsx said:
I was thinking the same thing. I got to thinking that something has changed since "the good ole days" then I quickly realized that LEO's were the most corrupt participants in Prohibition, The Wild West, etc...

Maybe the charm and ideals are only appealing to children who rarely have any insight into "the other side"?
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I don't think there's any maybe about it.

Kids look at firefighters and cops the same way. They're the valiant knights that protect us lowly smallfolk from evil and the bad things. Kids are stupid.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
It might also have something to do with the rise of thugs as heroes, in the last 20 years.
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I've been trying really hard not to post in this thread, but if Rob's going to... then I'll just wholeheartedly agree. Cops have been trained and conditioned to be thugs... and they're hiring them that way for the last 10 years, now. In the states (and possibly here) they're even deliberately passing over applications from people with IQ over 120, because they know they can't be trusted to just do what they're told... despite the injustice of it.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Baggsy said:
I could say Jean Chretian. I think there is more of a general distrust rather than just specific varieties.
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The person I named has a negative rep just for doing his job, and well might I add.

The people you named have a negative rep for doing unethical things.

Thats the point.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Shaman said:
I've been trying really hard not to post in this thread, but if Rob's going to... then I'll just wholeheartedly agree. Cops have been trained and conditioned to be thugs... and they're hiring them that way for the last 10 years, now. In the states (and possibly here) they're even deliberately passing over applications from people with IQ over 120, because they know they can't be trusted to just do what they're told... despite the injustice of it.
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Obviously not where I was going with that. I was talking about 'thug culture' and how, for some reason, drug dealers and thieves are frequently painted as heroes these days. This obviously makes police the 'bad guys', to those who idolize criminals. Police, as thugs, would be far more a thing of the past, than the present. We simply hear about every incident now, large and small, where we didn't in the past. Just as with violent crime, which has been on the fall for decades, this gives the impression that it is increasing rather than decreasing.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Do you need a post secondary degree to be a cop in Ontario, I know they do in BC ( not sure if its a legal requirement or as a result of competition )
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
Do you need a post secondary degree to be a cop in Ontario, I know they do in BC ( not sure if its a legal requirement or as a result of competition )
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Technically, no. In reality you're unlikely to be hired, without some sort of post secondary diploma.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
Obviously not where I was going with that. I was talking about 'thug culture' and how, for some reason, drug dealers and thieves are frequently painted as heroes these days. This obviously makes police the 'bad guys', to those who idolize criminals. Police, as thugs, would be far more a thing of the past, than the present. We simply hear about every incident now, large and small, where we didn't in the past. Just as with violent crime, which has been on the fall for decades, this gives the impression that it is increasing rather than decreasing.
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Nope, the G20 and lots of other ongoing incidents paint the cops pretty clearly as thugs. And frankly, knowing them and what they get up to will paint the picture just as clearly. They no longer respect people or their rights, and damned few of them care a whit about the public.

Feel free to disagree, but you'll be flat-out wrong. It's not an opinion.

But there is also a reason that the "thug lyfe" thing is happening - everyone understands, especially the youth - that many of the laws and the anti-charter enforcement of them are no longer just and do not serve the general public.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Shaman said:
Nope, the G20 and lots of other ongoing incidents paint the cops pretty clearly as thugs. And frankly, knowing them and what they get up to will paint the picture just as clearly. They no longer respect people or their rights, and damned few of them care a whit about the public.

Feel free to disagree, but you'll be flat-out wrong. It's not an opinion.

But there is also a reason that the "thug lyfe" thing is happening - everyone understands, especially the youth - that many of the laws and the anti-charter enforcement of them are no longer just and do not serve the general public.
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I'm not going to argue the G20. Lord knows that was a god awful mess. It was also unprecedented.

Back in 1980, you wouldn't hear about things like a cop beating a kid, in a Timmie's parking lot. The whole thing would be swept under the rug. These days it's on camera. It might only be one guy, but the whole force looks bad.

When did the thug life thing start? It sure wasn't last week. Your polar position is automatically wrong, because it's polar.

*Edited to add*

There's no more Cherry Beach Express.

You don't need to worry about getting pulled over, at three in the morning, in Waterloo anymore.
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
I'm not going to argue the G20. Lord knows that was a god awful mess. It was also unprecedented.

Back in 1980, you wouldn't hear about things like a cop beating a kid, in a Timmie's parking lot. The whole thing would be swept under the rug. These days it's on camera. It might only be one guy, but the whole force looks bad.

When did the thug life thing start? It sure wasn't last week. Your polar position is automatically wrong, because it's polar.

*Edited to add*

There's no more Cherry Beach Express.

You don't need to worry about getting pulled over, at three in the morning, in Waterloo anymore.
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Let me tell you a back in the 80's story...

Got pulled over for ride and cop said "had anything to drink" i replied "had a few beers" (i wasnt drunk buy had a few) so the cop taps me on the shoulder and says " well go on and have a few more son"

Cops used to be cool. Now they are pullin you over and its like they have complex and they gotta be an ass
 
Now that 'few beers' would have you losing your car and license, for a few days, and it wasn't a cop that made it that way.
 
When I was growing up in the 70s my father had 5 women working for him. They were all married to cops. 4 were staff Sargents on the local force, the other was a constable and father of a good friend. Staff christmas parties and pool parties at our house was always wall to wall cops. Those 5 men were some of the most upstanding men I'd ever met. Were there bad cops on the force? There were rumours of a couple, but they were nowhere near the norm, and didn't associate socially with the cops that I knew. Unfortunately, they handed over the reigns to little weasles like Fantino, and the die was cast. Entire forces of jack-boot thugs like Dim and Georgie in A Clockwork Orange, and a handfull (like my riding buddy in 51 division) who get so disolusioned with the graft, deceit, and outright thuggery, that they form an exit strategy and get the hell out ASAP to save their sanity.

As that great American philosopher Tracy Marrow said, **** ain't like that no more.
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
Now that 'few beers' would have you losing your car and license, for a few days, and it wasn't a cop that made it that way.
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Yep got me suspended for 3 days last year superbowl sunday. I am 190 pounds had 4 beers over 4 hours i was straight as an arrow not even slighly buzzed

I blew the new .05 rule and got 3 days suspended. Not sure how long that stay in insurance? Its been a year now
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
Obviously not where I was going with that. I was talking about 'thug culture' and how, for some reason, drug dealers and thieves are frequently painted as heroes these days. This obviously makes police the 'bad guys', to those who idolize criminals. Police, as thugs, would be far more a thing of the past, than the present. We simply hear about every incident now, large and small, where we didn't in the past. Just as with violent crime, which has been on the fall for decades, this gives the impression that it is increasing rather than decreasing.
Click to expand...

A thought that crossed my mind is that with respect to the drug issue, there is a certain population segment that thinks drugs should be legal. They are exposed to music and movies that makes light of it, images and news stories of people getting arrested and doing time for possession, etc. Police, in this view, are seen as the enemy. That view of being an enemy then gets amplified of said music, and those for the legalization of drugs. That view of being an enemy then crosses over other areas of the law.

For the sake of full disclosure, I think all drugs should be legal. People want to do drugs, regardless of the negative side effects.
 
All in all policing is and extremely tough job so i am not going to say anything bad about them

Sure they are not as cool as they used to be in the 80's but then again thats just a sign of the times

Everyone is less cool these days in some sense. When i was a kid we have a beef with some one, we would punch each other out. Now kids carry guns and knives. Not cool!

Point is if everyone else is changed then how can we expect the police not to
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Chaos said:
A thought that crossed my mind is that with respect to the drug issue, there is a certain population segment that thinks drugs should be legal. They are exposed to music and movies that makes light of it, images and news stories of people getting arrested and doing time for possession, etc. Police, in this view, are seen as the enemy. That view of being an enemy then gets amplified of said music, and those for the legalization of drugs. That view of being an enemy then crosses over other areas of the law.

For the sake of full disclosure, I think all drugs should be legal. People want to do drugs, regardless of the negative side effects.
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I don't think that all drugs should be legal, certainly not when we all share the same health insurance pool.
I also think that the government has a reponsibility to protect the public from drugs the same way it regulates food safety. The fact that a lot of drugs are mixxed in some guys basement is hugely problematic.
There may be a personal freedom argument for the legalisation of drugs, but there will still be a massive amount of regulation on it.

I however, reiterate my insurance point and I wish that all smokers were in their own insurance pool.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
I don't think that all drugs should be legal, certainly not when we all share the same health insurance pool.
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Why not? People do not make a decision to do drugs (especially so called hard drugs) based on the legality of it (well, maybe a handfull might)

The argument that the US and Canada uses is something like this...

[No no folks, we don't have any moral objection to drugs per se, but the crime element and lowlife that it generates are a burden on the general public. Therefore we must spend BILLIONS to eradicate this from society (even though we know that is NEVER going to happen)]

Lets take heroin in Switzerland, they had a HUGE problem with it in the 70/80's and they decided to give up the battle and treat the seriously addicted as patients rather then criminals (they only become societal criminals when they steal/pillage for their next fix) All signs point to REDUCED drug use (folks are introduced without judgement to programs that can help them), REDUCED crime and REDUCED cost for the treatment of the individuals. The ONLY way to really argue with that outcome would be to adopt a MORAL position but disguise it as something else.

Think about it this way, how can an addict do anything useful if their only MAIN CONCERN is where, how and how$ they are going to get their next fix. Their brain becomes single minded (even stripping away the desire to eat) Take that constant thought out of their head (as the Swiss have done) and NOW they can spend some mental energy thinking about what they are actually doing to themselves and how they may be able to rise above it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_reduction#Heroin_maintenance_programs
Canada has studied the Swiss approach and they think it is effective (well, the ones not driven from an idealogical perspective anyway)

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/371/ille/presentation/ucht1-e.htm

A few other countries are giving it a try (portugal) with success (here is the full report http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf <-- 4mb)

What are we planning to do in Canada, same as Texas… Lets not do what Texas does. (even Texas says this, same with California)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/10/17/pol-vp-milewski-texas-crime.html
http://www.csdp.org/news/news/tulia.htm

Here is a good place for those interested in the real facts of the issue, not propoganda BS from either side.

http://natgeotv.com/ca/drugs-inc

The US and Canada's approach to the topic amounts to MORAL control, it is plain and simple. Oh yeah... and all those Prison Dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison–industrial_complex
 
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