Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

FullMotoJacket said:
Is motorcycling as safe as driving a car? Statistically I'd say no, and I'm sure there's plenty of studies to back that up. If you get to decide who you don't want your tax dollars subsidizing, then others (let's say car drivers) by right should get to decide which of your vices/hobbies their tax dollars don't fund when you get hurt. That's the part you don't seem to get. you don't get to decide..




Justify it however you want, it's still dangerous.



Are you sure you don't mean abuse? There's plenty of drugs that are beneficial medically. Morphine, heroin, steroids, marijuana all have valid medical uses. IIRC there was a study that came out last week that said smoking one joint a week has absolutely no long term harmful affect on a person. (and for the record, I don't use drugs. I'm smart enough to know that they do have benefits when used properly, and don't condemn their use out of some anachronistic belief in Refer Madness propaganda).
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I am aware that some drugs have medically beneifical properties, but I included smoking. without putting a huge qualifer after every time i use the word "drug". the context was clear that I was talking about drugs that cause harm resulting in public costs. the context of the conversation was also recreational drug use, not medical.

With regards to the motorcycling point. As i said above, I am fine with carrying an extra layer of private insurance for my own risky behaviour. You may not agree with me, but that doesnt' mean you get to pretend I want other people to cover my risks while I don't cover others.

And at the end of the day, neither you or caboose have given a valid rationale for why I should pay for the treatment of other's risks. But I guess "thats just how it is" is good enough for you guys.
 
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Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
Live in Canada your whole life? look next door.
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Look next door to what? We're talking about Canada are we not? What does the current US healthcare system have to do with anything?

Only a fool would use their current system as an example of what could be.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Did I say it was perfect? its an example of a system that doesn't cover you no matter what.

Point, its not a fairy tale.

Nice try.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Awww, you mad that your fairy tale point got shot down? Have to go back to that "thats just how it is?"

Maybe I should send you an application for the republican party, all they know how to do is say no but not offer any alternatives. You'll fit right in.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

caboose483 said:
Look next door to what? We're talking about Canada are we not? What does the current US healthcare system have to do with anything?

Only a fool would use their current system as an example of what could be.
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Our health care system is currently underfunded, for what it gives and given the aging population demographic, will be even more poorly funded in the future. There are a couple of ways that this can be handled:

1) Two-tier healthcare with the paying people getting more immediate care, with their funds going to support the public side of the system.

2) Full pay-for heathcare, in the American model, with private medical insurance.

It's going to have to go one of those two ways, eventually, unless we suddenly all start having 4 child families.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

We have a 2 teired system now, even if the Feds like to deny it.

The 3rd solution rob is to raise taxes =D.

The US also has some of the most high quality, innovative and cutting edge health care in the world, They suck at covering everyone, but their infrastrure, for those that can pay for it, is unmatched.

Hong Kong has a 2 teired system, which is very affordable yet also has really high quality. ( tho not necessarily at the same time)
The problem with that system is that it can't be replicated in our geography, one hospital there can serve millions while here, thousands.
 
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Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
Our health care system is currently miss-managed, for what it gives and given the aging population demographic, will be even more poorly funded in the future.
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Let me correct that for you. :D

And i'll reply to the "motorcyclists cost more to the health care system" topic while i'm here.
There are thousands of car crashes each day caused by unskilled drivers, the type of people that will never learn to drive properly. Should we charge them more money?
What about clumsy idiots? I know a guy that couldn't keep his finger out of a table saw, should we bill him extra for being a frikkin clutz?
What about people that require hospitalization after being unfairly assaulted by the cops? Send the bill to police chief Bill?! :lol:
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
We have a 2 teired system now, even if the Feds like to deny it.

The 3rd solution rob is to raise taxes =D.

The US also has some of the most high quality, innovative and cutting edge health care in the world, They suck at covering everyone, but their infrastrure, for those that can pay for it, is unmatched.

Hong Kong has a 2 teired system, which is very affordable yet also has really high quality. ( tho not necessarily at the same time)
The problem with that system is that it can't be replicated in our geography, one hospital there can serve millions while here, thousands.
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The '3rd solution' is what they're currently doing, which will fail to support the current system. That's not an option ;)

Our current system could do quite well, if we adopted some of the Americans' methods more quickly. It's criminal that arthroscopic techniques, that have been used in the US for a couple of decades, still aren't common here. What's wrong with faster, less invasive surgery that results in virtual out patient treatment, for things we keep people in hospital for weeks after, using our current methods?

AGAVE said:
Let me correct that for you. :D
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Somewhat correct but, again, not enough to support the system with an aging population.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
Somewhat correct but, again, not enough to support the system with an aging population.
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I hear that.
Not sure what the hell i'm gonna do when my parents are too old to care for themselves.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

AGAVE said:
I hear that.
Not sure what the hell i'm gonna do when my parents are too old to care for themselves.
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Well, to start with they're going to live with you, because you won't be able to afford a nursing home. You'll be doing in-home care and calling a roaming nurse, for home visits that you'll likely have to pay for, by that time.

Obviously some 'rationalizing' of costs has to be done, because there's always waste. Having hospitals specialize, in certain types of care and surgeries, will reduce costs and increase performance. Having one place specialize in things like knee and hip replacements would see them being performed more quickly, more expertly, and (likely) with reduced times of convalescence. Certain types of care will become pay-for; removed from the "free" services list (we've already seen some of this, in Ontario).
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
Awww, you mad that your fairy tale point got shot down? Have to go back to that "thats just how it is?"

Maybe I should send you an application for the republican party, all they know how to do is say no but not offer any alternatives. You'll fit right in.
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You seem to have a hard time differentiating Canada from the United States.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

caboose483 said:
You seem to have a hard time differentiating Canada from the United States.
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You seem to have a hard time demonstrating knowledge, or a point for that matter.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
With regards to the motorcycling point. As i said above, I am fine with carrying an extra layer of private insurance for my own risky behaviour. You may not agree with me, but that doesnt' mean you get to pretend I want other people to cover my risks while I don't cover others.
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I asked my coworker who dislikes motorcycles and thinks they're dangerous, and he thinks you should bear the cost of all your health care because you partake in what he deems an un-necessary risky behavior. You only want to assume partial responsibility. He thinks his opinion is more valid that yours. Maybe you'd like to counter and say he should assume all his health care responsibilities because he rides a mountain bike?

Wait, he just countered that his riding improves his cardiovascular fitness and your motorcycling doesn't so you have no business making your claim.

Wanna keep going?
It's called The Slippery Slope. Google it.
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

OpenGambit said:
You seem to have a hard time demonstrating knowledge, or a point for that matter.
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You seem to have no job, and alot of time for GTAM for a "smart guy", shouldn't you be shuffling legal papers or something?
Just askin'. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

Rob MacLennan said:
Well, to start with they're going to live with you, because you won't be able to afford a nursing home. You'll be doing in-home care and calling a roaming nurse, for home visits that you'll likely have to pay for, by that time.

Obviously some 'rationalizing' of costs has to be done, because there's always waste. Having hospitals specialize, in certain types of care and surgeries, will reduce costs and increase performance. Having one place specialize in things like knee and hip replacements would see them being performed more quickly, more expertly, and (likely) with reduced times of convalescence. Certain types of care will become pay-for; removed from the "free" services list (we've already seen some of this, in Ontario).
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Well right now the trend seems to be 2 teired.
I am afraid that would lead to the best medical professionals moving into the private system. But the reality is that is really happening right now, they are just moving out of Canada entirely ( or studying abroad and not entering the Canadian system at all ).
 
Re: Wonder why some folks distrust LEO's?

FullMotoJacket said:
I asked my coworker who dislikes motorcycles and thinks they're dangerous, and he thinks you should bear the cost of all your health care because you partake in what he deems an un-necessary risky behavior. You only want to assume partial responsibility. He thinks his opinion is more valid that yours. Maybe you'd like to counter and say he should assume all his health care responsibilities because he rides a mountain bike?

Wait, he just countered that his riding improves his cardiovascular fitness and your motorcycling doesn't so you have no business making your claim.

Wanna keep going?
It's called The Slippery Slope. Google it.
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partial? I assume responsiblity based on the additional risk I take. There was no reason or suggestion that someone taking a risky behaviour should have to pay extra for medical expenses not associated with that behaviour, hence not "all", but "extra".

And the reality is, I do pay for "all" of my own health care through taxes and a good portion of someone elses.
Slippery slopes go the other way too and nothing you said supports drugs being legal, which is the basis of the original point.
 
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