Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[GreyGhost]

VIDEO: Robbery suspects chased through Toronto forest by police; Mississauga teen, Brampton man among 4 charged | INsauga

A dramatic foot chase through a west Toronto forest led police to the arrests of a 16-year-old Mississauga boy, a Brampton man and two others in connection with a violent jewelry store robbery in Richmond Hill on Tuesday afternoon. Video from a York Regional Police helicopter involved in the...

www.insauga.com

Another jewellery store smash and grab.. We've seen numerous incidents of young folks involved in crimes.. I suspect they're often coerced by older people.. I think that the government should look at creating new laws to use against adults using or coercing kids to commit crimes.

I'd like it as an enhance to sentencing too. If you involve a minor in your crimes, mandatory five years. Make it too painful to involve the kids as if you rob the store without them, you probably get less than a year.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I'd like it as an enhance to sentencing too. If you involve a minor in your crimes, mandatory five years. Make it too painful to involve the kids as if you rob the store without them, you probably get less than a year.

I'd be careful about mandatory minimums. It's that sort of thing that resulted in the "multiple credit for time served" business.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'd be careful about mandatory minimums. It's that sort of thing that resulted in the "multiple credit for time served" business.

The whole point of sentencing is to teach you a lesson and keep you away from the public. Drastically reducing your sentence because it took a while to convict you is insane. The courts are almost as messed up as the politicians (especially the supreme court).

 

[Rob MacLennan]

The whole point of sentencing is to teach you a lesson and keep you away from the public. Drastically reducing your sentence because it took a while to convict you is insane. The courts are almost as messed up as the politicians (especially the supreme court).

Given that our system is largely successful, overall, I would like to see some numbers on who the recidivists actually are. My gut tells me that we're looking at a relatively small number of offenders who constantly play the system, making it look far worse than it actually is. We're seeing American style behaviours and if we try to correct the trend using American style methods, then we're looking at a system that fails in the same way that theirs does. We need an adjustment, to deal with a relative few corner cases, rather than an overhaul.

I see it in much the same way that I see Trudeau's gun bans, with the expressed purpose of 'cutting down on gun crime.' He's fixing a leaky roof by replacing the windows. Going all "tough on crime", following the usual conservative doctrinarian approach, will likely break far more than it fixes.

 

[GreyGhost]

Given that our system is largely successful, overall, I would like to see some numbers on who the recidivists actually are. My gut tells me that we're looking at a relatively small number of offenders who constantly play the system, making it look far worse than it actually is. We're seeing American style behaviours and if we try to correct the trend using American style methods, then we're looking at a system that fails in the same way that theirs does. We need an adjustment, to deal with a relative few corner cases, rather than an overhaul.

I see it in much the same way that I see Trudeau's gun bans, with the expressed purpose of 'cutting down on gun crime.' He's fixing a leaky roof by replacing the windows. Going all "tough on crime", following the usual conservative doctrinarian approach, will likely break far more than it fixes.

Fair enough. As a start, I would closely tie immigration and criminal systems. If you come here and commit crimes, you're out. While that is unlikely to be the majority of criminals, it is low hanging fruit that hopefully never hurts us again and cost is almost trivial compared to other options. No probation, ride from the court to the airport.

Edit:
As for bail, this idiot is canadian and lives in a 2M house. He breached his bail conditions so they granted him bail again with a 5k bond. Screw that. If you want to give him bail, it should be at least 100k and possibly 1M. He'll breach again in a heartbeat as it only costs him 5k.

Man accused of human trafficking released from custody following new charges

Lauriston Maloney was released from custody on a $5,000 pledge following a special bail hearing in Barrie on Thursday.

barrie.ctvnews.ca

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Fair enough. As a start, I would closely tie immigration and criminal systems. If you come here and commit crimes, you're out. While that is unlikely to be the majority of criminals, it is low hanging fruit that hopefully never hurts us again and cost is almost trivial compared to other options. No probation, ride from the court to the airport.

There is already a threshold for offences beyond which immigration status is supposed to receive a review. They just need to apply it. Perhaps there's an issue with a waiting list?

 

[Gaoler]

Recidivists... it's been my observation that the vast majority of "frequent flyers" are the low hanging fruit of the criminal element of society.
Usually offenses related to the drug using sub culture... Possession, trafficking, property crimes with a little bit of assault thrown in.
Most of these people are so immersed in the lifestyle that arrest, court, jail, probation is just what they do.
Sadly, most never break out of the cycle.
In over 30 years I can think of only a couple I know of who actually straightened out enough to lead decent, productive lives.
The rest just keep coming back to jail or end up prematurely dead.

 

[timtune]

Given that our system is largely successful, overall, I would like to see some numbers on who the recidivists actually are. My gut tells me that we're looking at a relatively small number of offenders who constantly play the system, making it look far worse than it actually is. We're seeing American style behaviours and if we try to correct the trend using American style methods, then we're looking at a system that fails in the same way that theirs does. We need an adjustment, to deal with a relative few corner cases, rather than an overhaul.

I see it in much the same way that I see Trudeau's gun bans, with the expressed purpose of 'cutting down on gun crime.' He's fixing a leaky roof by replacing the windows. Going all "tough on crime", following the usual conservative doctrinarian approach, will likely break far more than it fixes.

I can't remember the name of the book I read on Amerikan Supermax prisons but it was a scary read. If you're paid to lock people up (privatized prisons) then you push hard to make sure lots of people get locked up for long periods, regardless of whether or not it's warranted.
A particularly scary part was learning about how solitary confinement is used so much more than is actually permitted. That and how guys who have been driven almost crazy with too much solitary are one day let out of the hole and given a bus ticket with the "hope" they can fit back into society.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I can't remember the name of the book I read on Amerikan Supermax prisons but it was a scary read. If you're paid to lock people up (privatized prisons) then you push hard to make sure lots of people get locked up for long periods, regardless of whether or not it's warranted.
A particularly scary part was learning about how solitary confinement is used so much more than is actually permitted. That and how guys who have been driven almost crazy with too much solitary are one day let out of the hole and given a bus ticket with the "hope" they can fit back into society.

Now look up "Kids for Cash Scandal" and get REALLY angry.

 

[raginduck]

Recidivists... it's been my observation that the vast majority of "frequent flyers" are the low hanging fruit of the criminal element of society.
Usually offenses related to the drug using sub culture... Possession, trafficking, property crimes with a little bit of assault thrown in.
Most of these people are so immersed in the lifestyle that arrest, court, jail, probation is just what they do.
Sadly, most never break out of the cycle.
In over 30 years I can think of only a couple I know of who actually straightened out enough to lead decent, productive lives.
The rest just keep coming back to jail or end up prematurely dead.

I got into some trouble when I was young.. and got to visit some of our fine institutions. My tour included Syl Apps.. Camp Dufferin.. Guelph Reformatory.. Millbrook.. Millhaven and Collins Bay. I was 22 years old when I left 'the bay'.. 29 years ago.. and I haven't' been in any trouble since... except some traffic offences.
IMO.. based on my experiences.. one of the flaws in our system is the young offender act and the way it eases young folks into the system.. and allows them to slowly graduate up the system.. getting used to it as they go. I think if they took a 16 year old and sent him straight to a real prison setting instead of the co-ed group home type of setting they do now... it would change a lot of young minds about their life choices.

 

[Mad Mike]

That's why I posted sunshine list. Two years had substantial reductions in pay. I don't know why but that seems suspicious.

Edit:
Tribunal was scheduled Thursday. He died Wednesday.

Did he off himself?

 

[GreyGhost]

Did he off himself?

I haven't seen official word. Reading between the lines that seems likely.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

VIDEO: Robbery suspects chased through Toronto forest by police; Mississauga teen, Brampton man among 4 charged | INsauga

A dramatic foot chase through a west Toronto forest led police to the arrests of a 16-year-old Mississauga boy, a Brampton man and two others in connection with a violent jewelry store robbery in Richmond Hill on Tuesday afternoon. Video from a York Regional Police helicopter involved in the...

www.insauga.com

Another jewellery store smash and grab.. We've seen numerous incidents of young folks involved in crimes.. I suspect they're often coerced by older people.. I think that the government should look at creating new laws to use against adults using or coercing kids to commit crimes.

Using kids to commit crimes is nothing new. My place was broken into in the 90s. 2 young offenders being driven around in a van by a Fagin and dropped off at target houses. Still waiting for the court ordered restitution.

 

[crankcall]

We had that two yrs ago , van drops kids at the top of the street , they run down trying the doors on all cars grabbing wallets and charge cards . Van had starlink internet and they would start online shopping immediately. Then apparently go to a ATM and using business cards try and get cash by guessing pins ( last four digits of phone number is a common pin) . They got nabbed by nieghbour that can’t sleep at night . Kids from fourteen to seventeen.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

 

[Gaoler]

IMO.. based on my experiences.. one of the flaws in our system is the young offender act and the way it eases young folks into the system..

The YOA is gone... Dead. No longer a thing.
What we have now is the YCJA... Youth Criminal Justice Act.
By far a gentler, kinder philosophy towards young doers of crime.

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what we do...
Rarely does "scaring straight" work. If someone is going to stop behaving in a criminal manner, it's because of something else.
Career criminals hate being locked up yet they continue to do stuff that gets them locked up.

 

[raginduck]

The YOA is gone... Dead. No longer a thing.
What we have now is the YCJA... Youth Criminal Justice Act.
By far a gentler, kinder philosophy towards young doers of crime.

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what we do...
Rarely does "scaring straight" work. If someone is going to stop behaving in a criminal manner, it's because of something else.
Career criminals hate being locked up yet they continue to do stuff that gets them locked up.

So.. it's even gentler than the YOA?
How about the facilities they're sent to.. also gentler than they were in the YOA days?
Is it working?

 

[backmarkerducati]

It does not need to be a mandatory sentence but there should be a fat add-on (2 to 10) for involving a minor OR committing a crime with a minor. Many of these smash and grabs, carjackings, etc. have "adults' (early 20s) and minors all in that group. Catch them, another fat charge for those that are not minors. Same for the more "organized" adult groups that just have minors do the bidding, not just smash and grab but shootings etc. The kids are being groomed... if they were being groomed for a different "crime" society would be more up in arms...

Youth Justice Act also needs to be adjusted to add more responsibility to the youth. This is where not ruin your entire life is still a factor but some harsher outcomes to think about things...

Will the above 100% stop it, no. But these people are smarter than they often get credit for.... we adjust, they will adjust....

 

[Gaoler]

So.. it's even gentler than the YOA?
How about the facilities they're sent to.. also gentler than they were in the YOA days?
Is it working?

From what I recall it's like this... Whatever the circumstance, it's the least restrictive measure that is to be taken when it comes to sentencing.
That's putting it in its simplest terms as each case is looked at individually.
"Gentler" may not be the right term... It appears to me to be more clinical than anything else.
You have an army of social workers, psychologists and the like "working" with these kids trying to fix 'em.
Unfortunately many are beyond fixing.

Honestly... There are some kids that never stood a chance in this world. 'Not that it's an excuse, but man... there are a LOT of ****** parents/adults in this world.

 

[Robp]

Honestly... There are some kids that never stood a chance in this world. 'Not that it's an excuse, but man... there are a LOT of ****** parents/adults in this world.

I really wish more people would understand this. What chance does a kid born to drug addicts have. Even if the kid is born without physical/mental issues, that kid inevitably falls into gang life and gets sent to a facility. Then when they get out, the cycle just repeats back, because it's not like they get released to wonderful supportive parents. People don't think about the fact that it's such a deep issue, that starts decades before with helping the parents not falling into drug addiction in the first place.

 

[Gaoler]

I really wish more people would understand this. What chance does a kid born to drug addicts have. Even if the kid is born without physical/mental issues, that kid inevitably falls into gang life and gets sent to a facility. Then when they get out, the cycle just repeats back, because it's not like they get released to wonderful supportive parents. People don't think about the fact that it's such a deep issue, that starts decades before with helping the parents not falling into drug addiction in the first place.

It's not only drugs...
Suffice it to say there re some pretty messed up cultures/sub-cultures within our society.
You wouldn't believe the stuff some people believe is perfectly normal and acceptable with regards to raising children.