Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[GreyGhost]

Even if the gun was illegal.. It's still very likely the murder charge would be dropped as it was. They would still proceed with poss. of the illegal gun charges, but that would have no bearing on the murder charge.

I'd have no problem with an illegal gun charge. Possibly even a careless discharge charge as you are firing within city limits (I'm not sure about this one, with hollowpoints in the gun and a reasonable field of fire, I think no charge but if bullets were lobbed through windows, it seems justified even in the face of an armed attacker).

 

[raginduck]

Stand your ground obviously has issues and is regularly abused. On the other hand, after an armed intruder has crossed the threshold of your house, I don't think laying the charge benefits society.

I am torn on this... I don't like that they had to spend money... BUT.. I don't want the police to decide if it's self defence or not.. and do think lawyers and courts should be involved in that determination. Considering the circumstances... I think they could have waited until the crown made its decision... and not just immediately charged him just to have to drop them later.

 

[GreyGhost]

I am torn on this... I don't like that they had to spend money... BUT.. I don't want the police to decide if it's self defence or not.. and do think lawyers and courts should be involved in that determination. Considering the circumstances... I think they could have waited until the crown made its decision... and not just immediately charged him just to have to drop them later.

Maybe US style with a grand jury is a reasonable approach in some cases. No formal charges until it has been reviewed by a sober third party. Even charges can be life-changing. Dropping them doesn't let you answer no to CBP officers and you have the lawyers bill to pay.

 

[nobbie48]

Maybe US style with a grand jury is a reasonable approach in some cases. No formal charges until it has been reviewed by a sober third party. Even charges can be life-changing. Dropping them doesn't let you answer no to CBP officers and you have the lawyers bill to pay.

The grand jury concept would still have legal costs but could eliminate the "Been charged" from your border resume. Unless a person is legally trained they should never be part of any legal action without some council.

We also have to consider trial by the media. They can headline anything they want and if in error, get off with a page 27 retraction that will never get read.

Anything that involves courts involves having legal representation. I don't know the Canadian Miranda equivalent to "If you can't afford a lawyer one will be appointed." What if you can afford a lawyer but don't feel you should pay for one?

I don't know if a "Without prejudice" meeting would be a starting point. Anyone can say anything they want but can back out anytime.

 

[justride]

Peel police seek ban on identifying officers involved in death of mentally ill man Ejaz Choudry​

Lawyers for the police service filed a motion in May requesting a court-ordered publication ban and sealing order, claiming in part that the officers have “faced threats to their safety and well-being, and that of their families”

Peel police seek ban on identifying officers involved in death of mentally ill man Ejaz Choudry

Choudry’s family is suing Peel police, saying they “allowed a straightforward mental health call to spiral out of control.” The officers have been cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the SIU.

www.thestar.com

 

[nobbie48]

Peel police seek ban on identifying officers involved in death of mentally ill man Ejaz Choudry​

Lawyers for the police service filed a motion in May requesting a court-ordered publication ban and sealing order, claiming in part that the officers have “faced threats to their safety and well-being, and that of their families”

Peel police seek ban on identifying officers involved in death of mentally ill man Ejaz Choudry

Choudry’s family is suing Peel police, saying they “allowed a straightforward mental health call to spiral out of control.” The officers have been cleared of criminal wrongdoing by the SIU.

www.thestar.com

It's unfortunate that the man died. Would it have been less tragic if an officer died?

Frail old men can still kill.

He couldn't understand English. Who's fault is that?

He didn't react to a taser.

A schizophrenic we knew died and they found a shopping bag of medications under his bed.

You can't save every victim.

What is the mindset of revenge with those that threaten cleared police officers? It sounds like a Hatfield and McCoy feud.

 

[justride]

Cleared by SIU. Civil trail will probably go ahead.
Police will quickly arrest anyone who threatens them, especially their family without a doubt.
Probably do not want the heavy social burden of killing someone, justified or not.

 

[raginduck]

It's unfortunate that the man died. Would it have been less tragic if an officer died?

Frail old men can still kill.

He couldn't understand English. Who's fault is that?

He didn't react to a taser.

A schizophrenic we knew died and they found a shopping bag of medications under his bed.

You can't save every victim.

What is the mindset of revenge with those that threaten cleared police officers? It sounds like a Hatfield and McCoy feud.

They forced the situation.
Holding a knife in your own home is not illegal.. He was alone in the apartment. They'll say they entered, thru a balcony, for his own safety... but how is for his own safety.. when you're escalating it into a deadly situation.

 

[raginduck]

Read the SIU report on the incident.

 

[justride]

by google
Why do some people not get affected by taser?
It's not always immediately clear why a Taser wasn't effective. Some people have tugged the metal probes from their bodies, rendering the device useless. Mental illness or drug use can also influence how a person reacts to the shock. Sometimes the fault lies with officers who don't use them properly.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

The grand jury concept would still have legal costs but could eliminate the "Been charged" from your border resume. Unless a person is legally trained they should never be part of any legal action without some council.

We also have to consider trial by the media. They can headline anything they want and if in error, get off with a page 27 retraction that will never get read.

Anything that involves courts involves having legal representation. I don't know the Canadian Miranda equivalent to "If you can't afford a lawyer one will be appointed." What if you can afford a lawyer but don't feel you should pay for one?

I don't know if a "Without prejudice" meeting would be a starting point. Anyone can say anything they want but can back out anytime.

"You have the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay, you have the right to telephone any lawyer you wish, you have the right to free advice from a Legal Aid lawyer and If you're charged with an offence you may apply to the Ontario Legal Aid Plan for legal assistance."

At least that's the version used by Peel Regional Police.

 

[nobbie48]

"You have the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay, you have the right to telephone any lawyer you wish, you have the right to free advice from a Legal Aid lawyer and If you're charged with an offence you may apply to the Ontario Legal Aid Plan for legal assistance."

At least that's the version used by Peel Regional Police.

IIRC the income limit for legal aid is $40 K. If that is correct and you make a bit more the money comes out of your grocery or housing budget.

 

[GreyGhost]

Near miss. A man in the process of being hired by Peel Regional Police to be an officer just got child pornography charges so they have terminated the hiring process.

Camp counsellor who allegedly filmed 6-year-old in washroom was ‘in the hiring process’ to become police officer

A Mississauga camp counsellor charged with child pornography-related offences after allegedly filming a six-year-old in a washroom was in the process of being hired as a police officer, according to Peel Regional Police.

www.cp24.com

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I feel slightly dirty for doing it, but i find watching SovCits getting slapped down sooooo enjoyable. Guilty pleasure, I guess?

 

[nobbie48]

I feel slightly dirty for doing it, but i find watching SovCits getting slapped down sooooo enjoyable. Guilty pleasure, I guess?

My B-I-L was into it for a while. I don't know how cops put up with it for more than thirty seconds. Find an obscure section of a constitution and pervert it.

Cop: "So you're a Sovereign Citizen but not a person. OK by me as I am only banned from shooting persons. Keep talking while I pin this bullseye on your shirt and check my sights."

 

[Rob MacLennan]

My B-I-L was into it for a while. I don't know how cops put up with it for more than thirty seconds. Find an obscure section of a constitution and pervert it.

Cop: "So you're a Sovereign Citizen but not a person. OK by me as I am only banned from shooting persons. Keep talking while I pin this bullseye on your shirt and check my sights."

They seem to have a habit of defying American police up to the point that they end up doing The Worm on the pavement, after getting Tased. Not so long ago one got Tased, after trying to quote American Constitutional Law-like garbage to Canadian cops. I don't remember where it happened, but saw the video of it.

EDIT - I was mis-remembering this one. He didn't get Tased, but did get arrested. Guess I've seen too many videos in which US police use Tasers as "tools for generating compliance", rather than less lethal weapons. It was in Chestermere, Alberta. Warning: NWS language from the SovCit.

 

[ToSlow]

What about the auditors that video? Are they in the wrong or right

 

[Mikedezo44]

I feel slightly dirty for doing it, but i find watching SovCits getting slapped down sooooo enjoyable. Guilty pleasure, I guess?

I enjoy those, and on the other side of the coin have been watching many first amendment audits. Guy filming a factory from a public road that has a sign posted saying "no filming" Cops come up and try to ID them and detain them for "Acting suspicious" Is that a misdemeanor or a felony? Really gets the cops aggravated, so much so that some lose their temper and the citizen gets a nice payday from the illegal arrest/tackle to the ground.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

What about the auditors that video? Are they in the wrong or right

Right about in what way Canadian law differs? Yes, though in most US States you are also required to present proof of license, registration, and insurance when stopped for a driving infraction. In many you aren't required to do so for a random stop, if no crime is being legitimately investigated. In Canada you are also required to "identify" if stopped by police, in or out of a vehicle, but identifying does not mean presenting a government issues ID. It means saying something like, "My name is john Doe and I reside at 123 Fake Street, in Sometown, Ontario."

 

[Evoex]

Right about in what way Canadian law differs? Yes, though in most US States you are also required to present proof of license, registration, and insurance when stopped for a driving infraction. In many you aren't required to do so for a random stop, if no crime is being legitimately investigated. In Canada you are also required to "identify" if stopped by police, in or out of a vehicle, but identifying does not mean presenting a government issues ID. It means saying something like, "My name is john Doe and I reside at 123 Fake Street, in Sometown, Ontario."

Fairly certain you are required to present your license on demand at any traffic stop.

I get your point otherwise.