Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly..... | Page 302 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.7%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.7%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 55 49.5%
  • Total voters
    111
nobbie48 said:
The fall out? Didn't one of their VIPs get nabbed DUI.
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yes the senior officer responsible for heading the tribunal which decides punishment for officers convicted of things like...DUI
 
Go police dog go. A little street justice against a dirtbag doing dirtbag things and endangering the public. Still pretty crap that SIU takes seven months to issue a judgement on a dog bite.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario officer not disciplined after police dog bit off man's ear

On Nov. 3, 2022, officers were called to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area for reports of a break-and-enter.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

"Ontario’s police watchdog said that just after 8 a.m. on Nov. 3, 2022, officers with the London Police Service were dispatched to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area following reports that a man was attempting to break into a residence.

Police said the man fled the scene in an SUV before responding officers arrived. Authorities located the suspect but aborted efforts to pursue him when he failed to stop for police.

A short time later, the man fled on foot in a townhouse complex and a police dog was released. The dog bit the 28-year-old man several times, and his left ear was partly severed.

“The dog took the Complainant to the ground and bit him several times, including in the buttocks, and left upper arm and wrist. The most serious injury was one to his left ear, much of which had been ripped off by the police service dog, wrote the Director of the SIU, Joseph Martino."
 
GreyGhost said:
Nothing new here. With the door pinned closed yell at the suspect to get out of the car while continuing to bash their face in with a baton. No criminal charges for cop.

www.cp24.com

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com
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That one is up for grabs. The suspect was actively using a 2.5-3.0 tonne weapon at the time. A shooting might well have been ruled as justified.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
That one is up for grabs. The suspect was actively using a 2.5-3.0 tonne weapon at the time. A shooting might well have been ruled as justified.
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Yes but I still think it is a training fail. You can't be swearing and yelling at people to do something while they are physically prevented from doing what you are requesting while also continuing to bash them for not complying. It seems like most police have far more escalation tendencies than de-escalations.

Obviously this suspect did many dumb things. It wasn't clear from what I read whether the vehicle was in motion at the time of the beating. It sure sounded like retribution for bad behaviour after vehicle was stopped. If vehicle was in motion, delivering continued blows to the face should not be possible.
 
GreyGhost said:
Go police dog go. A little street justice against a dirtbag doing dirtbag things and endangering the public. Still pretty crap that SIU takes seven months to issue a judgement on a dog bite.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario officer not disciplined after police dog bit off man's ear

On Nov. 3, 2022, officers were called to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area for reports of a break-and-enter.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

"Ontario’s police watchdog said that just after 8 a.m. on Nov. 3, 2022, officers with the London Police Service were dispatched to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area following reports that a man was attempting to break into a residence.

Police said the man fled the scene in an SUV before responding officers arrived. Authorities located the suspect but aborted efforts to pursue him when he failed to stop for police.

A short time later, the man fled on foot in a townhouse complex and a police dog was released. The dog bit the 28-year-old man several times, and his left ear was partly severed.

“The dog took the Complainant to the ground and bit him several times, including in the buttocks, and left upper arm and wrist. The most serious injury was one to his left ear, much of which had been ripped off by the police service dog, wrote the Director of the SIU, Joseph Martino."
Click to expand...
Play silly games... win silly prizes.
 
GreyGhost said:
Yes but I still think it is a training fail. You can't be swearing and yelling at people to do something while they are physically prevented from doing what you are requesting while also continuing to bash them for not complying. It seems like most police have far more escalation tendencies than de-escalations.

Obviously this suspect did many dumb things. It wasn't clear from what I read whether the vehicle was in motion at the time of the beating. It sure sounded like retribution for bad behaviour after vehicle was stopped. If vehicle was in motion, delivering continued blows to the face should not be possible.
Click to expand...
I will certainly agree that many police seem to lack some pretty basic de-escalation skills, but not sure this is an example. Sounds like hands off steering wheel, lay down on seat would have stopped the beating. Instead the suspect was apparently still in control of the vehicle.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I will certainly agree that many police seem to lack some pretty basic de-escalation skills, but not sure this is an example. Sounds like hands off steering wheel, lay down on seat would have stopped the beating. Instead the suspect was apparently still in control of the vehicle.
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Or that would have got you shot for reaching for a weapon. Cop was mentally gone and acting on pure rage or terror.

De-escalation training needs a complete rethink. Cops that are no good at it should no longer be cops. It is possibly the most critical part of their job.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I will certainly agree that many police seem to lack some pretty basic de-escalation skills, but not sure this is an example. Sounds like hands off steering wheel, lay down on seat would have stopped the beating. Instead the suspect was apparently still in control of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

The beating wouldn't stop until he was out of the vehicle and on the ground.
 
GreyGhost said:
Go police dog go. A little street justice against a dirtbag doing dirtbag things and endangering the public. Still pretty crap that SIU takes seven months to issue a judgement on a dog bite.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario officer not disciplined after police dog bit off man's ear

On Nov. 3, 2022, officers were called to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area for reports of a break-and-enter.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

"Ontario’s police watchdog said that just after 8 a.m. on Nov. 3, 2022, officers with the London Police Service were dispatched to the Wellington Street and Horton Street East area following reports that a man was attempting to break into a residence.

Police said the man fled the scene in an SUV before responding officers arrived. Authorities located the suspect but aborted efforts to pursue him when he failed to stop for police.

A short time later, the man fled on foot in a townhouse complex and a police dog was released. The dog bit the 28-year-old man several times, and his left ear was partly severed.

“The dog took the Complainant to the ground and bit him several times, including in the buttocks, and left upper arm and wrist. The most serious injury was one to his left ear, much of which had been ripped off by the police service dog, wrote the Director of the SIU, Joseph Martino."
Click to expand...

if they found the doggo guilty of excessive force, would he have gotten a demotion and some subpar treats for a while? or does he go on paid time off and chill at the dog park all day on our dime??
 
GreyGhost said:
Yes but I still think it is a training fail. You can't be swearing and yelling at people to do something while they are physically prevented from doing what you are requesting while also continuing to bash them for not complying. It seems like most police have far more escalation tendencies than de-escalations.

Obviously this suspect did many dumb things. It wasn't clear from what I read whether the vehicle was in motion at the time of the beating. It sure sounded like retribution for bad behaviour after vehicle was stopped. If vehicle was in motion, delivering continued blows to the face should not be possible.
Click to expand...
I suspect that causing panic in the enemy is part of the police mind set. I'm not sure if it works but it beats the perpetrator causing panic within the police.

In a "Mission Impossible" world where the police had detailed knowledge of exactly what the suspect was going to do they would have a custom designed and built device on hand to peacefully and kindly effect an arrest. Due to the lack of ESP and one cure fits all devices the police have limited resources.

The suspect tried to ram his way out of the blockade and endangered the cops. If he was successful in breaking out it could have resulted in a high speed chase endangering many more innocent people.

Criticizing a F bomb is amusing if you've watched Arkansas State Police chase videos. They take potty mouth to a whole new level.
 
nobbie48 said:
I suspect that causing panic in the enemy is part of the police mind set. I'm not sure if it works but it beats the perpetrator causing panic within the police.

In a "Mission Impossible" world where the police had detailed knowledge of exactly what the suspect was going to do they would have a custom designed and built device on hand to peacefully and kindly effect an arrest. Due to the lack of ESP and one cure fits all devices the police have limited resources.

The suspect tried to ram his way out of the blockade and endangered the cops. If he was successful in breaking out it could have resulted in a high speed chase endangering many more innocent people.

Criticizing a F bomb is amusing if you've watched Arkansas State Police chase videos. They take potty mouth to a whole new level.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying that screaming and swearing by definition increases the energy in a situation. That never ever works to reduce the time to resolution. Whiskey throttle into a crash is a much bigger problem than steady braking to pull out energy. You still may crash but it won't be nearly as bad. There are many good examples of de-escalation (for instance cop taking down van attack guy in Toronto) but they are the exception to normal police behaviour. Tbh, I would have had no problem with shooting suspect while he was ramming cruisers with his car. Once motion was stopped and cop was right in his face, beating him was retribution and had very little to do with control or safety.
 
GreyGhost said:
I'm just saying that screaming and swearing by definition increases the energy in a situation. That never ever works to reduce the time to resolution. Whiskey throttle into a crash is a much bigger problem than steady braking to pull out energy. You still may crash but it won't be nearly as bad. There are many good examples of de-escalation (for instance cop taking down van attack guy in Toronto) but they are the exception to normal police behaviour. Tbh, I would have had no problem with shooting suspect while he was ramming cruisers with his car. Once motion was stopped and cop was right in his face, beating him was retribution and had very little to do with control or safety.
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There are so many catch-22's in the situation. The guy was asleep and they were able to box him in but not knowing if he was armed or not, distance is a strategic advantage.

More physical tools on hand would help but deciding which one to use could cause a critical delay in response to a person with an unknown mindset. A bullet to the brain is a universal solution but politically unpopular.

I've wondered about the reality of a shot through the hood of the car taking out the engine because of component damage. What about collateral damage, ricochets, fire etc?

Of course if it had Lucas electrics you could use a water pistol.
 
nobbie48 said:
I suspect that causing panic in the enemy is part of the police mind set. I'm not sure if it works but it beats the perpetrator causing panic within the police.

In a "Mission Impossible" world where the police had detailed knowledge of exactly what the suspect was going to do they would have a custom designed and built device on hand to peacefully and kindly effect an arrest. Due to the lack of ESP and one cure fits all devices the police have limited resources.

The suspect tried to ram his way out of the blockade and endangered the cops. If he was successful in breaking out it could have resulted in a high speed chase endangering many more innocent people.

Criticizing a F bomb is amusing if you've watched Arkansas State Police chase videos. They take potty mouth to a whole new level.
Click to expand...
Hell, or a Florida State Police traffic stop video.
 
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