Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[Mikedezo44]

Hmm I wonder if the intruders were after something specific, at least one of them had a gun of their own...
At least this lady didn't get charged with murder from what I can tell it was labelled an "accident"... the youtube comments underneath are quite comical.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Not an indictment on the police but man are our laws ever screwed up. Five armed bad guys conducting a home invasion and assaulting a woman and one gets killed by the homeowner. Homeowner now charged with murder. Other guys will probably sue and win for moral anguish from seeing their dirtbag friend get blasted. Cops want a monopoly on shooting bad guys.

Man, 22, charged with murder after shooting suspect who tried to rob his house, lawyer says

A 22-year-old is facing murder charges after he shot and killed a man who was allegedly attempting to rob his family home in Milton, Ont., his lawyer says.

www.cp24.com

There's worse things than being tried by twelve.

 

[ToSlow]

There's worse things than being tried by twelve.

Carried by 6 in this case.

 

[nobbie48]

Not an indictment on the police but man are our laws ever screwed up. Five armed bad guys conducting a home invasion and assaulting a woman and one gets killed by the homeowner. Homeowner now charged with murder. Other guys will probably sue and win for moral anguish from seeing their dirtbag friend get blasted. Cops want a monopoly on shooting bad guys.

Man, 22, charged with murder after shooting suspect who tried to rob his house, lawyer says

A 22-year-old is facing murder charges after he shot and killed a man who was allegedly attempting to rob his family home in Milton, Ont., his lawyer says.

www.cp24.com

One shot but a cop can pump eight into a kid on a streetcar and the other officers perjured themselves to try to get him off.

I am concerned that armed resistance can bring on more aggresive attacks. Police say the home was targetted and I wonder why.

Now that he is charged he doesn't have to comment as the case is before the courts. Hopefully they drop the charges.

 

[ToSlow]

Hugh home on the corner of Trafalgar and 5th. Wondering if that’s the house

 

[FullMotoJacket]

Hugh home on the corner of Trafalgar and 5th. Wondering if that’s the house

It's behind the Sargent's Farms truck yard off 25 south of Derry.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[backmarkerducati]

Not an indictment on the police but man are our laws ever screwed up. Five armed bad guys conducting a home invasion and assaulting a woman and one gets killed by the homeowner. Homeowner now charged with murder. Other guys will probably sue and win for moral anguish from seeing their dirtbag friend get blasted. Cops want a monopoly on shooting bad guys.

Man, 22, charged with murder after shooting suspect who tried to rob his house, lawyer says

A 22-year-old is facing murder charges after he shot and killed a man who was allegedly attempting to rob his family home in Milton, Ont., his lawyer says.

www.cp24.com

While my personal opinion is he should not have been charged my guess is there are also complicating factors. Complicating factors in this case, why was the home targeted and was the gun and ammo properly/legally stored. If it was well it is almost impossible to use it in such a situation (time wise). So was the guy expecting something and was at the ready.... just happened to be cleaning the gun type of thing. It was under the pillow... or whatever.

Sadly though, this is the logic of the legal system, person gets charged for defending themselves and they get found not-guilty they say the system works....except for the huge cost (money and otherwise) to the person that was charged!

Not in this case (gun fight) but legally IMO the best tool for self defence in your home is a fire extinguisher. Can be used as a stand off weapon and can be swung, no reason not to have one at hand (fires)... Using a knife, gun, baseball bat or other "weapon", etc. will likely get some sort of charge as it comes back to why did you have "that weapon" at hand.... were you playing baseball in your bedroom?

 

[GreyGhost]

While my personal opinion is he should not have been charged my guess is there are also complicating factors. Complicating factors in this case, why was the home targeted and was the gun and ammo properly/legally stored. If it was well it is almost impossible to use it in such a situation (time wise). So was the guy expecting something and was at the ready.... just happened to be cleaning the gun type of thing. It was under the pillow... or whatever.

Sadly though, this is the logic of the legal system, person gets charged for defending themselves and they get found not-guilty they say the system works....except for the huge cost (money and otherwise) to the person that was charged!

Not in this case (gun fight) but legally IMO the best tool for self defence in your home is a fire extinguisher. Can be used as a stand off weapon and can be swung, no reason not to have one at hand (fires)... Using a knife, gun, baseball bat or other "weapon", etc. will likely get some sort of charge as it comes back to why did you have "that weapon" at hand.... were you playing baseball in your bedroom?

If there were firearms offenses committed, firearms charges would make sense. Afaik, there is only a single charge for murder. lack of firearms charges would lead me to believe they didn't have evidence to lay any.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

While my personal opinion is he should not have been charged my guess is there are also complicating factors. Complicating factors in this case, why was the home targeted and was the gun and ammo properly/legally stored. If it was well it is almost impossible to use it in such a situation (time wise). So was the guy expecting something and was at the ready.... just happened to be cleaning the gun type of thing. It was under the pillow... or whatever.

Sadly though, this is the logic of the legal system, person gets charged for defending themselves and they get found not-guilty they say the system works....except for the huge cost (money and otherwise) to the person that was charged!

Not in this case (gun fight) but legally IMO the best tool for self defence in your home is a fire extinguisher. Can be used as a stand off weapon and can be swung, no reason not to have one at hand (fires)... Using a knife, gun, baseball bat or other "weapon", etc. will likely get some sort of charge as it comes back to why did you have "that weapon" at hand.... were you playing baseball in your bedroom?

I have several swords, a couple of daggers, and two bows with about 30 arrows on display in my home. If they also happen to be handy when an intruder breaks in, well....

 

[Wind Shear]

While my personal opinion is he should not have been charged my guess is there are also complicating factors. Complicating factors in this case, why was the home targeted and was the gun and ammo properly/legally stored. If it was well it is almost impossible to use it in such a situation (time wise). So was the guy expecting something and was at the ready.... just happened to be cleaning the gun type of thing. It was under the pillow... or whatever.

Sadly though, this is the logic of the legal system, person gets charged for defending themselves and they get found not-guilty they say the system works....except for the huge cost (money and otherwise) to the person that was charged!

Not in this case (gun fight) but legally IMO the best tool for self defence in your home is a fire extinguisher. Can be used as a stand off weapon and can be swung, no reason not to have one at hand (fires)... Using a knife, gun, baseball bat or other "weapon", etc. will likely get some sort of charge as it comes back to why did you have "that weapon" at hand.... were you playing baseball in your bedroom?

According to other reports, there was apparently police activity in the area in the week leading up to this (SWAT type?).
Perhaps both sides are known to police. Perhaps home occupant was expecting this "visit" and was laying in wait/trap.

 

[ToSlow]

It's behind the Sargent's Farms truck yard off 25 south of Derry.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

There was a shooting at a B&B a couple yrs back in Georgetown, Didn’t hear much about after the fact

 

[nobbie48]

While my personal opinion is he should not have been charged my guess is there are also complicating factors. Complicating factors in this case, why was the home targeted and was the gun and ammo properly/legally stored. If it was well it is almost impossible to use it in such a situation (time wise). So was the guy expecting something and was at the ready.... just happened to be cleaning the gun type of thing. It was under the pillow... or whatever.

Sadly though, this is the logic of the legal system, person gets charged for defending themselves and they get found not-guilty they say the system works....except for the huge cost (money and otherwise) to the person that was charged!

Not in this case (gun fight) but legally IMO the best tool for self defence in your home is a fire extinguisher. Can be used as a stand off weapon and can be swung, no reason not to have one at hand (fires)... Using a knife, gun, baseball bat or other "weapon", etc. will likely get some sort of charge as it comes back to why did you have "that weapon" at hand.... were you playing baseball in your bedroom?

The double edged sword of firearm storage. If it is properly stored it's close to useless in a hurry, which keeps people from thinking of it as a first resort instead of last.

I'm guessing a gang can take over a house a lot faster than someone can run to a gun cabinet and arm themselves. The gang just picks up a new weapon.

If you have a safe room I suppose the gun cabinet can be in there and arms retrieved once the door is locked from the inside. Catch 22 again, since you're in a safe spot you have time to call police so no need to use the gun.

The bothersome part of this is you have to let the other party strike first, weapon or fist. All too often, the first blow is the winning one.

 

[raginduck]

Not an indictment on the police but man are our laws ever screwed up. Five armed bad guys conducting a home invasion and assaulting a woman and one gets killed by the homeowner. Homeowner now charged with murder. Other guys will probably sue and win for moral anguish from seeing their dirtbag friend get blasted. Cops want a monopoly on shooting bad guys.

Man, 22, charged with murder after shooting suspect who tried to rob his house, lawyer says

A 22-year-old is facing murder charges after he shot and killed a man who was allegedly attempting to rob his family home in Milton, Ont., his lawyer says.

www.cp24.com

Need more details before I can have an option on this.

 

[ReSTored]

I wonder how a 22 year old guy qualifies for a restricted weapon and why 5 people, some armed, elect to rob his house? Doesn't sound random to me. Sounds like money or drugs or some other type of valuable were expected to be on the scene by people with inside info. Who has a weapon loaded and accessible at 5AM, unless you're expecting trouble?

 

[GreyGhost]

I wonder how a 22 year old guy qualifies for a restricted weapon and why 5 people, some armed, elect to rob his house? Doesn't sound random to me. Sounds like money or drugs or some other type of valuable were expected to be on the scene by people with inside info. Who has a weapon loaded and accessible at 5AM, unless you're expecting trouble?

How do we know it was restricted? I havent seen a description of gun. One description said one shot, one fatality so I would be surprised if it was a handgun (and if it was a restricted weapon, I would have expected police to charge that as well).

 

[matt365]

How do we know it was restricted? I havent seen a description of gun. One description said one shot, one fatality so I would be surprised if it was a handgun (and if it was a restricted weapon, I would have expected police to charge that as well).

A few thoughts on this.

We have no "stand your ground" law in Canada. Gun is locked up, bullets are locked up. I'm sure the crown will argue that he had to take the time to unlock both (should be locked up in different areas of the house), and that for 2nd degree murder, he had enough time to think about it while loading, so its premeditated.

Its a screwed up situation for sure.

If he picked up a blunt object and hit an offender into submission, or killed them, would it be the same end result? Murder2?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

 

[DownUnder]

A few thoughts on this.

We have no "stand your ground" law in Canada. Gun is locked up, bullets are locked up. I'm sure the crown will argue that he had to take the time to unlock both (should be locked up in different areas of the house), and that for 2nd degree murder, he had enough time to think about it while loading, so its premeditated.

Its a screwed up situation for sure.

If he picked up a blunt object and hit an offender into submission, or killed them, would it be the same end result? Murder2?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Pretty sure with a proper safe the ammo can be kept with the firearm no? And unless someone is intimate with the layout of a house, it actually takes a fair amount of time to clear rooms, so plenty of time to access a weapon if there is no escape route.

 

[GreyGhost]

A few thoughts on this.

We have no "stand your ground" law in Canada. Gun is locked up, bullets are locked up. I'm sure the crown will argue that he had to take the time to unlock both (should be locked up in different areas of the house), and that for 2nd degree murder, he had enough time to think about it while loading, so its premeditated.

Its a screwed up situation for sure.

If he picked up a blunt object and hit an offender into submission, or killed them, would it be the same end result? Murder2?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Nothing requires a different area of the house, just a different container (or IIRC downunder is correct and a proper safe even avoids that requirement). Assuming you are setup for home defence (probably not that common in çanada), two code lock boxes can be open in a couple seconds, pop in pre-loaded magazine (or slide in some shotgun shells) and chamber a round. With some practice, sub 10 seconds from decision to ready to fire should be easily possible. It sounds like mom encountered bad guys first so that would have slowed them down. If it was your standard hunter that needed to find keys, open a cabinet, find he key that fit the ammo cabinet, open that, load a magazine (why stress a spring by storing it full), then chamber, it's obviously a much longer process.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

A few thoughts on this.

We have no "stand your ground" law in Canada. Gun is locked up, bullets are locked up. I'm sure the crown will argue that he had to take the time to unlock both (should be locked up in different areas of the house), and that for 2nd degree murder, he had enough time to think about it while loading, so its premeditated.

Its a screwed up situation for sure.

If he picked up a blunt object and hit an offender into submission, or killed them, would it be the same end result? Murder2?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I seem to recall that the current interpretation is "separate means unloaded", but it's been a while since I looked it up. Keeping them stored in different containers is the safer way, but I don't believe it's necessary.

The "blunt object" scenario depends on the situation. If it occurs when faced with an intruder then it's much easier to claim that it was a reflexive action, than if you were to take the time to unlock and load a firearm, for example. In my case as I'm typing this there is a Smallsword on the shelf above my monitor (well, Smallsword, 1897 Pattern Infantry Sabre, and a replica WWII Japanese officer's sword), so it's more than plausible that I would grab one as a weapon of defence.

 

[raginduck]

A few thoughts on this.

We have no "stand your ground" law in Canada. Gun is locked up, bullets are locked up. I'm sure the crown will argue that he had to take the time to unlock both (should be locked up in different areas of the house), and that for 2nd degree murder, he had enough time to think about it while loading, so its premeditated.

Its a screwed up situation for sure.

If he picked up a blunt object and hit an offender into submission, or killed them, would it be the same end result? Murder2?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

We have sections 34 and 35 in our criminal code.

1st degree is premeditated.

There are far too many unknowns at this point for anyone other than someone with firsthand knowledge of the incident to be able to give an opinion.