Nah, they have to react and make a decision in seconds. Wasted time.
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Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
pfbmgd
Well-known member
I asked a simple question . I gave a simple senerio .You're on a streetcar with the doors closed. A guy goes crazy and starts threatening people with a knife. The streetcar operator has him largely calmed down before police arrive and the passengers are off. What do you do? I guess you put yourself close enough that you feel threatened, shoot the guy who can't reach you, then have a co-worker Taser the corpse. Does that seem reasonable, or does waiting for an hour for a "social worker" make more sense? The former gets you a dead suspect. The latter might get you a live suspect, with no one being in danger for that hour. There was no pressing need to force the issue.
As I said, divert the money being wasted on militarizing police and spend it on training for people trained in mental health intervention. That's what "defund the police" means.
Sure. Here's another link for you to ignore, about how Axon gets in the way of investigations, involving their weapons.
Shock Tactics: Taser inserts itself in probes involving its stun guns
Taser has defended the safety of its weapons by funding research and forging ties with cops and coroners. After a death, it springs into actionwww.reuters.com
I suggest that you review the Continuum of Force model for Ontario, if you think that things like conductive energy weapons come before hands-on control. I will attach it here.
And you never asked a reasonable question. As I said it's not hours of negotiation, but rather minutes until someone gets Tasered.How many minutes is too long to wait, for the ego of an officer?
YOU are on the street car . A guy goes crazy you can't get off the street car . Do you want a cops with lethal force or wait for a social worker for an hour ?
You keep failing to answer . How much more a year are you willing to pay for all the mental health teams ? Take the tazers away that is probably a saving of a few million in onatrio . The mental health teams for each region will cost millions .
About your arcticle . All weapons have a down side . What works on one person may not on another . People complain about people being shot . Police use less then lethal . A person dies because of a tazer . They probably would have dies due to a gun shot .
I never stated Ontario has that a policy of tazer first . But it is there in the continuuim . Even in Onatrio if a cop grabs your arm and you pull away they can tazer you .
Are you that obtuse ? I asked you a simple question . HOW MANY HOURS WOULD YOU WAIT FOR A PERSON TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES ? It has nothing to do with what is happening now . What is your proffessional opinion . How long should police have to wait to arrest a person if they don't cooperate ?
If they were warned of the consequences already then arrest them immediately, that's the reasonable result of not following a lawful order.
But you don't start the use of force scale at tazers.
And I refused to deal with a "what if", when we all know the actual scenario and its outcome.
I've been pretty consistent in my discussion of "when there is no immediate danger to the public." You just refuse to read that part, it seems.
I have also repeatedly said how to pay for it. Again, you seem to refuse to read it. Add to my previous statements that some number of officers, who are retiring, could be replaced with trained mental health professionals. The exact number needed would need to be studied, based on the number and type of interactions police have annually.
And Axon actively works to hide that downside, for marketing and liability reasons. This leads to people thinking that Tasers are as safe as the stun setting on a Star Trek Phaser. They aren't, and shouldn't be used indiscriminately.
No, you said that Taser comes before Hands-on, in the Continuum of force. It doesn't. Less lethal options come after attempting hands-on, unless there is a clear and present danger to the officer(s). The Continuum calls for re-evaluation of the situation at every step.
Temper... temper... I haven't answered your question because you want a nonsensical numerical answer. It seems I'm going to continue to disappoint because the answer remains, "As long as it reasonably takes, when there is no danger to the public."
pfbmgd
Well-known member
You are the type of person that is put on ignore . You go in the same circles .
You refuse to deal with "what if" . That is the diffrence between what you do and the police . They deal with that daily and in all interactions .
Replacing cops with mental health workers don't work . Who will do the police work ? You will need a complete new squad just like the tactical unit . This is not fantasy land were you retire cops and hire social workers . They had pilot project in Toronto for social workers riding with police . Not sure what happened to it . My guess is that social workers did not feel comfortable dealing with people in psychosis on the street . Way to many variables to deal with .
I said tazers are the first use of force in SOME jurisdictions . I will repeat it for you once more .
You can't answer my money question because you know the answer . You don't want to pay for such program .You don't want to answer the time question beacuse you know cops would be sitting for hours . Then in the end probably use force anyways .
Right back atcha!
Who will do the work? Police will do police work and mental health professionals will free police from having to do mental health work.
Can you show me the use of force continuum for one of those jurisdictions?
I'm a fiscal conservative. I like using existing funds to do a job, until such time as it's made clear that those funds are insufficient. I also don't want to see budgets balloon just for the sake of empire building.
*EDIT* Oh, and what you call "going in circles" I call having a consistent point of view
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Amazing. Excerpts from article below. There is a lot more I didn't copy.
www.cp24.com
The operation known as Trojan Shield led to police raids in 16 nations. More than 800 suspects were arrested and more than 32 tons of drugs - including cocaine, cannabis, amphetamines and methamphetamines - were seized along with 250 firearms, 55 luxury cars and more than $148 million in cash and cryptocurrencies.
The seeds of the sting were sown when law enforcement agencies earlier took down two encrypted platforms, EncroChat and Sky ECC, that had been used by criminal gangs to organize drug trafficking and underworld hits. With the gangs in the market for a new means of communication, the FBI stepped in with a covertly developed app called ANOM that was installed on modified mobile phones. Over the past 18 months, the FBI provided phones via unsuspecting middlemen to more than 300 gangs operating in more than 100 countries.
The ANOM app became popular in criminal circles as users told one another it was a safe platform. All the time, police were looking over the shoulders of criminals as they discussed hits, drug shipments and other crimes.
More than 800 criminals arrested after using encrypted messaging app developed by FBI
A global sting involving an encrypted communications platform developed by the FBI has sparked raids and arrests around the world, delivering “an unprecedented blow” to crime gangs, law enforcement authorities said Tuesday.
www.cp24.com
The operation known as Trojan Shield led to police raids in 16 nations. More than 800 suspects were arrested and more than 32 tons of drugs - including cocaine, cannabis, amphetamines and methamphetamines - were seized along with 250 firearms, 55 luxury cars and more than $148 million in cash and cryptocurrencies.
The seeds of the sting were sown when law enforcement agencies earlier took down two encrypted platforms, EncroChat and Sky ECC, that had been used by criminal gangs to organize drug trafficking and underworld hits. With the gangs in the market for a new means of communication, the FBI stepped in with a covertly developed app called ANOM that was installed on modified mobile phones. Over the past 18 months, the FBI provided phones via unsuspecting middlemen to more than 300 gangs operating in more than 100 countries.
The ANOM app became popular in criminal circles as users told one another it was a safe platform. All the time, police were looking over the shoulders of criminals as they discussed hits, drug shipments and other crimes.
I wonder if that might have had something to do with the interception of the Bitcoin wallet containing the ransom from the Colonial Pipeline hit?Amazing. Excerpts from article below. There is a lot more I didn't copy.
More than 800 criminals arrested after using encrypted messaging app developed by FBI
A global sting involving an encrypted communications platform developed by the FBI has sparked raids and arrests around the world, delivering “an unprecedented blow” to crime gangs, law enforcement authorities said Tuesday.
The operation known as Trojan Shield led to police raids in 16 nations. More than 800 suspects were arrested and more than 32 tons of drugs - including cocaine, cannabis, amphetamines and methamphetamines - were seized along with 250 firearms, 55 luxury cars and more than $148 million in cash and cryptocurrencies.
The seeds of the sting were sown when law enforcement agencies earlier took down two encrypted platforms, EncroChat and Sky ECC, that had been used by criminal gangs to organize drug trafficking and underworld hits. With the gangs in the market for a new means of communication, the FBI stepped in with a covertly developed app called ANOM that was installed on modified mobile phones. Over the past 18 months, the FBI provided phones via unsuspecting middlemen to more than 300 gangs operating in more than 100 countries.
The ANOM app became popular in criminal circles as users told one another it was a safe platform. All the time, police were looking over the shoulders of criminals as they discussed hits, drug shipments and other crimes.
That would make sense, pay the ransom to get the fuel flowing again and grab it on the back side. Both provides an impetus to expose the scheme now and drives up the numbers to make the busts look bigger.
Just a heads up, early this wk going north on 69 i seen a white car parked in a parking lot. Thought nothing of it till i got close enough to see the guy pointing radar out the window.
It was a cop car but only had the Ontario sticker with the trillium on the door like a regular government car you would see.
Never seen a ghost car like that before
It was a cop car but only had the Ontario sticker with the trillium on the door like a regular government car you would see.
Never seen a ghost car like that before
POWERMAN
Well-known member
Do you remember the make/model?
Saw a blacked out undercover RAM on Mavis/403 today.
Does anyone know whether cops have mechanisms to detect whether or not public uses Radar/Lidar detectors in their vehicles without physically seeing the unit?
yes they can detect them.
The legendary anti-radar detector cop in toronto would just flick the gun on and off and look for well timed brake lights. He seized more detectors than the rest of the force combined.
I havent looked in a while but there was a radar detector detector that only a few were able to beat. Not sure if cops carry that in their cars or not.
It looked like one of the old impales they used to drive
Via the leakage from poorly sealed units, in many cases.
Seems a little excessive reaction for doing a burnout, but maybe there's a backstory
www.instagram.com
6ixBuzz TV 6️⃣🐝 on Instagram: "A man got arrested for doing a burnout to celebrate Italy's win 😭🚔6️⃣🐝 (Via: @ninoosmoshi93)"
66K likes, 4,383 comments - 6ixbuzztv on June 26, 2021: "A man got arrested for doing a burnout to celebrate Italy's win 😭🚔6️⃣🐝 (Via: @ninoosmoshi93)".
www.instagram.com
Cops have had enough of intersection takeovers. They aren't playing around anymore. It will be interesting to see what charges he gets. He can get 172 for sure. Careless/Dangerous? He wasn't moving much and appeared to be in control but he was in close proximity to pedestrians. Seems like a hard one for them to win in court. He can get a noise ticket as value added.Seems a little excessive reaction for doing a burnout, but maybe there's a backstory
6ixBuzz TV 6️⃣🐝 on Instagram: "A man got arrested for doing a burnout to celebrate Italy's win 😭🚔6️⃣🐝 (Via: @ninoosmoshi93)"
66K likes, 4,383 comments - 6ixbuzztv on June 26, 2021: "A man got arrested for doing a burnout to celebrate Italy's win 😭🚔6️⃣🐝 (Via: @ninoosmoshi93)".
Probably catch a stunting for it (172).
POWERMAN
Well-known member
So who pays for damages to the bike and riding gear?
Cop just pushed him over - didn't even give him a chance to get off it?
And why take off his pants? I don't get that part...
Edit: Does anyone know what the final outcome was for this?: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/motorcycle-police-video-1.5794427
Cop just pushed him over - didn't even give him a chance to get off it?
And why take off his pants? I don't get that part...
Edit: Does anyone know what the final outcome was for this?: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/motorcycle-police-video-1.5794427
How about having enough with hooligans partying like it's 1999 every time their team manages to kick a ball.
Every two years we go through this. Some groups of hooligans definitely over do it more then others.
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