everyone's deemed innocent until proven otherwise.
yes i realize in the real world simply getting arrested could be grounds for termination in many fields.
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Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
yes i realize in the real world simply getting arrested could be grounds for termination in many fields.
I'm not saying no hearing. I am saying the bar for termination should be well below the bar for criminal conviction. Have the hearing. Present the evidence. Present the defence. Then rule on employment implications. The criminal trial should be an entirely separate process completely unrelated to employment.
No. I am saying criminal trial and hearing are entirely separate. The bar for being fired should be much lower than beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal trial.
1. Hearing
2. Fired.
3.criminal trial
4.jail or apply for jobs. Try not to do something that gets you fired this time.
So you're saying the ONLY way someone can be fired is if they commit a crime?
Double jeopardy is a criminal term. Has nothing to do with whether you are fired. The guy who pushed Ujiri wouldn't have a job but for the fact that he is a cop. If he was just a security guard the guy would have been fired....no crime needed. Here's the door thank you very much. Cops shouldn't be any different.
Hack
Well-known member
Well... let's fire everybody then without due process.
Seen it before...
Guys cleared in court... Then agency goes after them.
As if your retarded witch hunt process trumps a court of law.
People beat a case in court all the time, that doesn’t mean they didn’t commit a crime it just means the prosecution couldn’t get a conviction. As an employer if I have reasonable evidence the employee is gone. The courts can decide what to do with them on the societal level.
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People are wrongly convicted all the time as well.
What 'evidence' are you referring to?
Guy gets arrested in work place in front of his peers, as an owner/boss what would your reaction be?
Do you employ people who have a strong union, that's willing to financially back possible years of wrongful dismissal litigation? Because cops do. A criminal conviction means that's not going to happen.
I actually got dumber reading this.
Never said no due process....
i'll type slowly for you. ARE you saying the only way a police officer(or anyone for that matter) should be fired is if he/she has committed AND found guilty of a crime? If yes....then you are a in fact "retarded". Where does it say the only "Due process" is a criminal conviction? I didn't say there should be no due process......in the case of the Ujiri incident. Cop assaulted Ujiri.....twice....then lied about it. Are you saying that we need more than that? What agency are you talking about? What witch hunt are you talking about. If i see my employee push one of the people they are hired to protect......AND he lies about it: The due process is you are fired.
Well, in that particular case, apparently the Deputy sheriffs boss watched the body cam video and then issued a statement that they stand by their deputy. If police departments want to stick with the story of only a few bad apples, when something goes wrong, they cannot blindly support the liar. By watching that video and then ignoring the contents and backing the officer, I think there needs to be a further purge of that department.
We can continue without the personal insults, or infractions can start being handed out. There's no call for that.
I was intentionally being very general.
Yes people get wrongly convicted all the time as well.
What I would do depends on the specific circumstances.
My point was, no position should be protected and paid until the courts decide. If an employee’s actions dictate dismissal or otherwise that is a decision that generally shouldn’t hang on what a court case decides. Unless that court case is specifically pertaining to their employment.
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Fair
Hack
Well-known member
I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.
'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.
That's the bar.?....as long as i don't commit a crime....i cannot be fired? That's it. Never been convicted. Everyone else is fine?
And courts do not find you innocent nor to they clear you of wrongdoing.....just not guilty, not enough evidence to convict. Huge difference.
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