Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

[raginduck]

I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.







'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.

Just because an incident doesn't meet the threshold for a criminal conviction.. does not mean it did not breach the terms of the contract.
Railroaded? I doubt it... most probably got less than they deserved.
I'm sure that in 'your 30 years experience' that you've seen lots of guys cross the line.. and get away with it.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I thought that's what's being discussed... If I'm charged with assault (as an officer) and the the courts find me not guilty... There's where it should end.

'Blame it on my 30 years experience watching guys get railroaded by their employers AFTER being cleared in court.

The level of proof for a criminal case and for a disciplinary panel can be markedly different. For example in the case of Dennis Mahoney-Bruer, that I brought up, the presiding judge in his findings essentially said, "I know what you did and you know what you did, but I cannot find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." The disciplinary panel could have found him guilty on the same evidence, but I don't think that he was a cop anymore at that point. He was operating a couple of bars. It's been a while now and, despite taking time off to try and attend the trial(s), I could never nail down where they were held until after the fact.

 

[Mad Mike]

I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.

 

[MRR11.6]

I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.

Fudge, I would been in civil court half my career getting fired and hired back !! Lawyers dream ! There is a reason it is the way it is, but yes improvements are needed.

 

[ToSlow]

No charges to be laid in death of Regis Korchinski-Paquet: SIU

The province’s police watchdog says no charges will be laid against responding officers in the case of Regis Korchinski-Paquet, the 29-year-old woman who fell to her death from a High Park Avenue balcony earlier this year.

www.cp24.com

.

 

[GreyGhost]

No charges to be laid in death of Regis Korchinski-Paquet: SIU

The province’s police watchdog says no charges will be laid against responding officers in the case of Regis Korchinski-Paquet, the 29-year-old woman who fell to her death from a High Park Avenue balcony earlier this year.

www.cp24.com

.

I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill. I still think they should model their process on the NTSB. Open and transparent release of facts as they are locked down. No speculation prior to final report that then lays out all facts, a supportable description of timeline and recommendations to avoid repeating the exact same investigation with different actors in it. Right now they do none of the above and basically waste money with nothing to show for it.

 

[raginduck]

I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill. I still think they should model their process on the NTSB. Open and transparent release of facts as they are locked down. No speculation prior to final report that then lays out all facts, a supportable description of timeline and recommendations to avoid repeating the exact same investigation with different actors in it. Right now they do none of the above and basically waste money with nothing to show for it.

Special Investigations Unit -- Director's Report Details, Case Number: 20-TCD-124

This is the [...] page of the SIU website.

www.siu.on.ca

 

[GreyGhost]

London, ON police officer got a year in jail for an on the job incident resulting in a death. You don't hear of that happening often.

Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

 

[Hack]

I wish siu would provide more useful statements. They do very little to calm the rumour mill.

It wouldn't/doesn't matter in cases such as the one lucky2 posted a link to.
'Family, friends, community as well as anyone with an axe to grind have their minds made up as to how things went down...

Sometimes the only conspiracy is that the is no conspiracy...

 

[FullMotoJacket]

London, ON police officer got a year in jail for an on the job incident resulting in a death. You don't hear of that happening often.

Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

And.........................

suspended with pay. Convicted criminal. And his lawyer contended going to jail would be too hard on him.

 

[Mad Mike]

How do you get suspended, go to jail as a criminal, yet continue to collect a $90K taxpayer salary for 3 years?

The guy was suspended with pay when he was charged July 2017, convicted in Nov 2019 and is on the payroll?

 

[ToSlow]

The blue thin line will always protect themselves

 

[backmarkerducati]

For a change some (mostly) good. 5 ish AM this morning.

Woke up this morning to TTC supervisors and special constables in front of our house and a naked guy standing on the neighbour's hydro meter base (so basically between our houses, yes standing on the meter base) yelling and screaming. The guy is ranting and raving and yelling that there was/is a dog (we do not have one but our cat can be a real jerk....) and the dog attacked him and took his clothes.

EMS showed up next (in minutes) and with the TTC SCs tried to talk him down, no luck. So they backed off to the street.

The bad, it took TPS a good half hour to show up, to be fair I did not call them so I don't know when the TTC guys called it in. One of the TPS mentioned shift change...

The good, once they showed up they had it wrapped up in about 20 minutes. Deescalated the guy and talked him down (he had no weapon, no where to conceal one and white if it matters....).

The guy was obviously on a bad trip. His backpack had a good half dozen prescription pill containers. We live close to the TTC, it likely all started there.

 

[GreyGhost]

I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.

OPP officer arrested on firearms charges

Accused is a member of the Central Region emergency response team; Police say incidents isolated to on-duty training exercises and did not involve the public

www.barrietoday.com

On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.

OPP officer arrested on firearms charges

Accused is a member of the Central Region emergency response team; Police say incidents isolated to on-duty training exercises and did not involve the public

www.barrietoday.com

On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.

The only way those charges happen is if someone was put in danger by the discharge. That likely means firing while someone is down-range, or firing somewhere other than down-range.

 

[Baggsy]

The only way those charges happen is if someone was put in danger by the discharge. That likely means firing while someone is down-range, or firing somewhere other than down-range.

Could he have been firing around people during a simulation exercise?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I think it should go through an internal process quickly, as it would in any other business.

1) If there are grounds for dismissal, get it done quickly.
2) disciplinary suspensions should be unpaid
3) Any criminal conviction should be grounds for dismissal regardless of the internal process

like the rest of us, a wrongly punished police officer the civil court system to rely on should the have cause to file a case for wrongful termination.

It isn't really a "disciplinary suspension" until a finding by the police board. It's more of a "we can't take a chance on you if you actually did this thing that you're accused of" suspension in most cases.

 

[GreyGhost]

It isn't really a "disciplinary suspension" until a finding by the police board. It's more of a "we can't take a chance on you if you actually did this thing that you're accused of" suspension in most cases.

Which is why the police board process should not be put on hold until the criminal case is complete. I have no problem with not allowing the findings of the PSB report to be brought up in the criminal trial. In most cases, if there is sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges, that should be more than enough to PSB to immediately wield a large disciplinary stick.

 

[Mad Mike]

I have no idea what this cop did, but getting criminal charges for an on-duty incident at firing ranges away from public scrutiny means something must have gone terribly wrong. It also sounds like it may have been multiple different days.

OPP officer arrested on firearms charges

Accused is a member of the Central Region emergency response team; Police say incidents isolated to on-duty training exercises and did not involve the public

www.barrietoday.com

On Sept. 24, 2020, Staff Sergeant Roberto Manca, a 23-year member of the OPP currently serving as a Central Region Emergency Response Team, was arrested and charged with four counts of section 244.2(1)(b) discharging firearm - recklessness, and four counts of section 86(1) careless use of a firearm, contrary to the Criminal Code.

The incidents were isolated to on-duty police training exercises at firearm ranges and did not involve the public.

Those are pretty serious offences - 5 years in prison for the first, 2 years for the second. The blueliners normally take care of one another, this guy must have done something really bad to warrant being arrested by his own for actions on a closed range. Is he really the kind of cop we want patrolling the streets?

Anyway, another case where he gets sent home with full pay, probably take 2-3 years to get to trial - but what's another $300K to Ontario taxpayers plus another chunk of change to cover his legal fees?

Ontario is the only province that pays suspended police officers -- when will this end?

I always love this quote from a a few years ago by a Waterloo Regional Police officer who was suspended with pay for three years. He sent an email to the police thanking them for his continued salary while he sat at home, played golf, travelled and took a course to become a firefighter.

"I am very thankful and fortunate to have received such as a nice gift from WRPS over the last three years. You have opened up others doors for me and have paid me to sit back and watch. What a dream come true," Craig Markham wrote.

 

[GreyGhost]

Those are pretty serious offences - 5 years in prison for the first, 2 years for the second. The blueliners normally take care of one another, this guy must have done something really bad to warrant being arrested by his own for actions on a closed range. Is he really the kind of cop we want patrolling the streets?

Anyway, another case where he gets sent home with full pay, probably take 2-3 years to get to trial - but what's another $300K to Ontario taxpayers plus another chunk of change to cover his legal fees?

Ontario is the only province that pays suspended police officers -- when will this end?

I always love this quote from a a few years ago by a Waterloo Regional Police officer who was suspended with pay for three years. He sent an email to the police thanking them for his continued salary while he sat at home, played golf, travelled and took a course to become a firefighter.

"I am very thankful and fortunate to have received such as a nice gift from WRPS over the last three years. You have opened up others doors for me and have paid me to sit back and watch. What a dream come true," Craig Markham wrote.

After 23 years on the force, he is never coming back. He will ride suspended with pay as long as possible and then retire prior to PSB verdict so that he doesn't have a PSB judgement against him. They should eliminate that loophole and allow PSB to dock the pension of those that offend (especially when on-duty).