Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....

Who was in the wrong?

  • Cop

    Votes: 23 20.5%

  • Dude who got shot

    Votes: 33 29.5%

  • I like turtles

    Votes: 56 50.0%
  • Total voters
    112
fastar1 said:
How can you tell when you're wrong? (Assuming that ever happened. Crazy idea, I know, but indulge me please.)
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When results, based on a choice or theory, don't match with your expectations.
 
Shaman said:
When results, based on a choice or theory, don't match with your expectations.
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Wow, I didn't expect that.

So there's no other way than waiting for the outcome of your decision, it's impossible to figure out ahead of time based on two conflicting views? And if your expected outcome never arises, is that always an indicator that you were wrong?
 
fastar1 said:
So there's no other way than waiting for the outcome of your decision, it's impossible to figure out ahead of time based on two conflicting views? And if your expected outcome never arises, is that always an indicator that you were wrong?
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I suppose it all depends on whether or not you have an infinitive "wrong." Naturally, if you are partially wrong, you could always say that you were partially correct. And of course there are ways of figuring out ahead of time what you are certain to happen, but the vague nature of, well, nature, is sure to prove you wrong on many occasions.

I'm not sure where you're headed with this, but I can guess based on your conflicting view. ;)
 
Shaman said:
I suppose it all depends on whether or not you have an infinitive "wrong." Naturally, if you are partially wrong, you could always say that you were partially correct. And of course there are ways of figuring out ahead of time what you are certain to happen, but the vague nature of, well, nature, is sure to prove you wrong on many occasions.

I'm not sure where you're headed with this, but I can guess based on your conflicting view. ;)
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Actually it's something I'm going through with a guy at work, and I figured I'd try a dry run of this question on you first. But I think I need to approach the question differently...

Assume you had to make a very important decision on some subject in which there was strong disagreement between the two sides. Kinda like the argument to run if the cops chase you or pull over and take your medicine, except the decision needs to be made by a group. Obviously at least one side has to be wrong, could be you, could be them, could be both. You have a strong desire to make the right decision before risking the consequences of experiencing the wrong outcome. What would you look for that might tip you off that you were wrong, (or expect from people on the other side of the argument to do to question the validity of their own point of view)?
 
When it comes to the police, it's every man for themselves. My concern isn't for them (I mostly ride with guys who know the score for themselves), it's for me. Doubly so since when I converse with police, I find it exceedingly hard not to call them out for being thugs for a corporation. Look it up, each municipality and each police group is its own corporation... most people are so deluded and brainwashed by the system that they don't have a clue how it works - police detachments are all warring against each other to get more coverage, more cops, more toys and bigger paycheques every year... if you think that's for public safety, you don't know how the game is being played. So just talking with them, I stew. Knowing a bunch of them makes it worse, because I know how hypocritical it is of them to stop ANYONE for ANYTHING given how they behave in their own lives.

Anyway... now that I know where you're going, I think priority 1 is yourself. If you or they make the wrong choices, then someone's got to live with it... you'd hope it isn't you. I do know that at least two of my friends have taken a big ticket because they refused to rat out their friend/s when the cop tried to cut a deal for the bikes that ran. In my opinion, they made the wrong decision: they stopped. Tougher laws have had the opposite effect they are supposed to, at least amongst the chronically piston-headed - they make it a potentially life-changing event whether you stop OR run... but if you stop, you KNOW it's almost certainly going to be life-changing.

BTW, in both cases of friends who stopped have said that if they could re-live the moment, they'd wouldn't have. Even though one of them was on a SV650 at the time...

PPS - there's a detachment near Kingston in a little village by the name of Hartington on Highway 38. They have a fairly small jurisdiction, mostly Highway 38 to near Sharbot Lake and some of the outlying areas (though they rarely visit since 38 is a cash cow). Napanee detachment has been fighting to get jurisdiction there and replace the Hartington detachment for years - the answer has been this: if you are on Highway 38, you are in constant jeopardy of getting a highway TA violation and if you are stopped, there will be no mercy. They ticket rabidly all day long on 38, because their volume of income for the municipality is such that they have a strong ally in keeping their detachment... so watch yourselves if you're in that area. Just an example of how the system REALLY works.
 
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Shaman said:
So, allow yourself to be thrown directly into a self-perpetuating system, the very one that created the laws that you don't agree with. Great plan. Let me know how that plan works for you if you ever find yourself in that position. Not to mention that you will first have to deal with the stupid, frightened, heavily armed animals in the police force...
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Uh yeah. Good luck with that running from the law thing...
 
Re: Another cop chases/kills rider

coyo said:
Can't fault the cop here; the guy on the ground needs help, the dog goes after the woman then turns and goes after the cop. Gotta give the cop credit for a quick assessment, quick draw, and quick and accurately fired shot.

But I suppose many here feel that he should have let the dog bite him.
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Dog wasn't attacking. I didn't see a need to shoot it, but then I'm not a coward as, IMO, most cops these days are...
 
Shaman said:
When it comes to the police, it's every man for themselves. My concern isn't for them (I mostly ride with guys who know the score for themselves), it's for me. Doubly so since when I converse with police, I find it exceedingly hard not to call them out for being thugs for a corporation. Look it up, each municipality and each police group is its own corporation... most people are so deluded and brainwashed by the system that they don't have a clue how it works - police detachments are all warring against each other to get more coverage, more cops, more toys and bigger paycheques every year... if you think that's for public safety, you don't know how the game is being played. So just talking with them, I stew. Knowing a bunch of them makes it worse, because I know how hypocritical it is of them to stop ANYONE for ANYTHING given how they behave in their own lives.

Anyway... now that I know where you're going, I think priority 1 is yourself. If you or they make the wrong choices, then someone's got to live with it... you'd hope it isn't you. I do know that at least two of my friends have taken a big ticket because they refused to rat out their friend/s when the cop tried to cut a deal for the bikes that ran. In my opinion, they made the wrong decision: they stopped. Tougher laws have had the opposite effect they are supposed to, at least amongst the chronically piston-headed - they make it a potentially life-changing event whether you stop OR run... but if you stop, you KNOW it's almost certainly going to be life-changing.

BTW, in both cases of friends who stopped have said that if they could re-live the moment, they'd wouldn't have. Even though one of them was on a SV650 at the time...

PPS - there's a detachment near Kingston in a little village by the name of Hartington on Highway 38. They have a fairly small jurisdiction, mostly Highway 38 to near Sharbot Lake and some of the outlying areas (though they rarely visit since 38 is a cash cow). Napanee detachment has been fighting to get jurisdiction there and replace the Hartington detachment for years - the answer has been this: if you are on Highway 38, you are in constant jeopardy of getting a highway TA violation and if you are stopped, there will be no mercy. They ticket rabidly all day long on 38, because their volume of income for the municipality is such that they have a strong ally in keeping their detachment... so watch yourselves if you're in that area. Just an example of how the system REALLY works.
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Must be a different highway 38 than I take all the time then.
 
Re: Another cop chases/kills rider

raginduck said:
Dog wasn't attacking. I didn't see a need to shoot it, but then I'm not a coward as, IMO, most cops these days are...
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Really, you can tell that in the split second that occurred in... or only from your arm chair. The dog went after the woman (it's only after that they find out it bit her pants, not her) then turns and goes after the cop. I suppose you would have just waited to see what the dog did then?
 
jc100 said:
Must be a different highway 38 than I take all the time then.
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You must be blind. I'm not even kidding. I've counted two undercover and two full-badge police vehicles (one SUV, one interceptor) in *one* trip from Sharbot Lake to Kingston.
 
Tuesday Wednesday last week I was there to and from Ottawa saw one OPP cruiser. That's one of my fave routes back after getting off the 509. Highway 7 I mostly avoid now as its way worse.
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