I'm in!

[SFer]

This has been asked recently but I don't remember what thread. There is a big spread in times in both green and yellow, but generally if you can do 1:35 or so you won't be too much of a roadblock in intermediate. Some people in that group run below 1:25 though.

The consensus about red group seems to be that it is more about running consistent lines and comfort being passed in close quarters than it is about times per se. Some guys in that group may be racers on slower bikes, who have big corner speed but still aren't going to post super fast times becasue of lack of hp. But if you can't do below 1:25 regularly you would be pretty darn slow in that group I would think.

Good to know.
I'm obviously in the green group as it will be my first time, I won't be tryin to get a goo time. I just want to get out there and see what the bike can do without worrying about anything but my skills(which ain't much)Learn some lines and just have fun.
If I can figure out how to use the lap timer in my bike it would be nice to know where I am at at the start of the day vs the end of the day though.

Thanks

 

[cors]

I agree with you,
under 1:25 -> red,
over 1:32 -> green
anything in between ->intermediate

close to 1:15 you are talking about within 2 seconds of lap records

Great! My cheapish laptimer arrived, can't wait to see where I stand on the 20th.

 

[kellen]

Great! My cheapish laptimer arrived, can't wait to see where I stand on the 20th.

I've never owned a laptimer.

 

[toysareforboys]

I've never owned a laptimer.

My R1 has one built in, but it's a huge pain in the *** to use!

-Jamie M.

 

[gsxr guy]

This has been asked recently but I don't remember what thread. There is a big spread in times in both green and yellow, but generally if you can do 1:35 or so you won't be too much of a roadblock in intermediate. Some people in that group run below 1:25 though.

The consensus about red group seems to be that it is more about running consistent lines and comfort being passed in close quarters than it is about times per se. Some guys in that group may be racers on slower bikes, who have big corner speed but still aren't going to post super fast times becasue of lack of hp. But if you can't do below 1:25 regularly you would be pretty darn slow in that group I would think.

My suggestion to people on this is, run in green group until you are almost never being passed. Then move to red group. Not only is red safer you learn more and more quickly than in intermediate. I run in what ever group my buds are in and ride according to the passing rules in that group

 

[Brian P]

A few of us were talking about the evolution of track days, and trends that we (old timers) are seeing in track days - mostly bad. And with that in mind, here's the suggestion.

TAKE A TRAINING COURSE. Preferably, a reputable one. Do this before you set wheels on the track (i.e. the training course should be the first time you set wheels on the track).

It doesn't matter which one. FAST (the old standby), or Racer 5 (new, upstart), are the two common ones in this area. If you want to spend more money, there are others in the States. But I'd start with either one of those.

After that, go to a track day with a REPUTABLE track day organizer. I will give some known-good names here: Pro 6 Cycle, Rider's Choice, Racer 5, and GTAM (a.k.a. Paul). I won't dispute that there may be others who do a good job. But there are definitely some sketchy providers out there, who are best avoided. I won't name names but I'll name some alarm bells: No (enforced) rules. No tech inspection. No (useful) rider's meeting. Not giving new riders at least some sort of orientation. No corner marshals. No track ambulance. Not at least making an attempt to match your level of experience to the appropriate group to be assigned to.

Why should you do this ...

Because we (old timers) are seeing a trend of people not taking a training course and then going straight out with their green-group companions, who are equally lacking in experience, and are not learning how to do this PROPERLY, and in the course of not learning how to do this properly, are contributing to each other's errors ... and that is hazardous to your health and to that of everyone on track at the same time.

People in track days are doing outright stupid things on track and not even realizing that they could get themselves or someone else seriously hurt or worse.

 

[Fiery254]

My suggestion to people on this is, run in green group until you are almost never being passed. Then move to red group. Not only is red safer you learn more and more quickly than in intermediate. I run in what ever group my buds are in and ride according to the passing rules in that group

Not all track day organisers would allow this. And, don't forget, most of the idiots that frequently populate yellow groups do come from somewhere. And its usually from green group. So letting them loose in red would be even worse. At my favoured track, Calabogie, that could be a 50 second per lap disparity. Great lines or not, you're gonna get creamed going that slow.

 

[gsxr guy]

I agree. Calabobgie and mosport are high speed and technical. And if every one had to take a track school it would be safer for all. pro 6 won't let you just choose what group you want. My first time riding bogie was this summer. Got down to 218 I love this track makes me not want to ride any where else!

 

[dricked]

That's way too slow for red group. Just because you can hold a line and aren't spooked by quicker riders doesn't mean you belong in red. If your quick go in yellow but go out when it's clear not in a group if you can't handel it. If you get caught up in a group and aren't comfortable, pull into the pits untill it's clear again no matter what group. If you can ride at a safe comfortable pace, your not mowing people over and aren't getting passed with a 50kmh difference, that's the group you should ride in.

 

[Fiery254]

I agree. Calabobgie and mosport are high speed and technical. And if every one had to take a track school it would be safer for all. pro 6 won't let you just choose what group you want. My first time riding bogie was this summer. Got down to 218 I love this track makes me not want to ride any where else!

I've been riding 'Bogie 2 seasons now and have just got down to 2.18s so you can do one, you fast mofo!!!!

And yeah, it took a while before I jumped to red but the step change in time, and consistent lapping time especially is great.

 

[gsxr guy]

I've been riding 'Bogie 2 seasons now and have just got down to 2.18s so you can do one, you fast mofo!!!!

And yeah, it took a while before I jumped to red but the step change in time, and consistent lapping time especially is great.

Thanks. I used to race 500 two strokes on bias plys back in the day. I'm old and getting slower!

 

[Brian P]

I agree. Calabobgie and mosport are high speed and technical. And if every one had to take a track school it would be safer for all. pro 6 won't let you just choose what group you want. My first time riding bogie was this summer. Got down to 218 I love this track makes me not want to ride any where else!

I should add something to my earlier post (to new track day riders). Stay with Cayuga, Shannonville, Grand Bend, and Mosport RDT (your choice) in the beginning until you are comfortable with those. Calabogie and the big track at Mosport are much higher-speed tracks and have blind-entrance corners, and the consequences of an error are much greater.

 

[rmemedic]

Brian, I'm curious to know what you would think of an experienced MX guy that might decide to give asphalt a try?
Obviously, I'd hit the slowest group, but given the fact that I've done a few hundred days on a track, I've obviously learned proper behavior in traffic, either with passing or having a faster guy behind me. And in MX the lines are all over the place so you REALLY need to learn how to read where people are going.

Would you still suggest someone like me takes an "introduction" course or would I be ok going with someone experienced to bring me up to speed on the way things are run and just ride the slow group?

 

[Brian P]

It will still not hurt to take a course, just to account for differences in how stuff works on pavement and in dirt. You'll probably progress through the groups a lot faster with the head start that you've got.

Most tracks have specific procedures for entering and exiting the track, for example ("thou shalt not cross this yellow blend line ..."), and there are certain general principles for entering/exiting, red flag conditions, etc. Pavement riding typically has much higher speeds than dirt, which means closing speeds are much higher, and anyone going abnormally slowly (e.g. because they are planning to exit the track, or because they saw a red flag) has to take into account what could be coming up from behind them.

 

[atss2006]

What Brian P said.
From a pure noob perspective. I did the Racer5 4 day course this year, and the Soar race with our group. Yeah, 125's but I still loved it. I had bought a strictly track bike so I was ready to go. Went to Shanny for my first official track day. WHAT a difference. In the beginner group it was really scary. I figured I'd be the pure noob but no way. So many riders were doing the basics so wrong. Passing was scary because you really had no idea what the rider in front would do..shoulder checks weaving around..then they'd pin it on the straight away. No tech, riders meeting was a mess, not surprising..there were lots of crashes a couple serious. It was the opposite from what I experienced with Racer5 and SOAR. I did my next weekend with Ducati and it was great again (a couple strange flags). Proper tech and riders meetings. There were some really slow riders, but they held their line and didnt do anything crazy. Wife gave permission..or at least didn't say no so I'm good to go for the 20th if the weather is good. Looks like Racer5 is putting it on so my expectations will be high.

 

[reciprocity]

Brian, I'm curious to know what you would think of an experienced MX guy that might decide to give asphalt a try?
Obviously, I'd hit the slowest group, but given the fact that I've done a few hundred days on a track, I've obviously learned proper behavior in traffic, either with passing or having a faster guy behind me. And in MX the lines are all over the place so you REALLY need to learn how to read where people are going.

Would you still suggest someone like me takes an "introduction" course or would I be ok going with someone experienced to bring me up to speed on the way things are run and just ride the slow group?

The experience you have will find you moving to the intermediate group quickly(a quick day of learning is all that's needed for you) you already know how to race and how to ride, you just need some experience with trackday etiquette and road course manners so to speak.

I'd say you'd be better off if you bought Brian lunch and asked him to help you out

 

[toysareforboys]

Wife gave permission..or at least didn't say no so I'm good to go for the 20th if the weather is good. Looks like Racer5 is putting it on so my expectations will be high.

Congrats! I'll see ya there.

-Jamie M.

 

[oomis]

Alright - coolant flushed and replaced with water. Most of the crap I think I need but probably won't is more or less ready to go.

I'll be the 6'3" gorilla on the black sv650 with track fairings in brand new leathers, looking lost, confused and probably hungry.

I'm bringing a camp stove and a percolator. I'm not above buying friends - stop by for a cup and tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

 

[infernobuster]

Hmmmm .. might consider loading the bike and coming out for Thursday. Weather dependent of course

 

[cors]

Alright - coolant flushed and replaced with water. Most of the crap I think I need but probably won't is more or less ready to go.

I'll be the 6'3" gorilla on the black sv650 with track fairings in brand new leathers, looking lost, confused and probably hungry.

I'm bringing a camp stove and a percolator. I'm not above buying friends - stop by for a cup and tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

Hmmmm .. might consider loading the bike and coming out for Thursday. Weather dependent of course

Be honest, you can't resist the coffee machine oomis will have there Oomis, I'm definitely stopping by for a cup! I'm only a 5'9", but with my 200lb I qualify to be called a gorilla