N3WMAN
Well-known member
Dude, he's done a trackday now. He's already got his black numbers on order.
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I'm in!
- Thread starter oomis
- Start date
Oh, here we go again. The experts telling every lesser rider what they should and should not be allowed to post.
Jamie posted his impressions of the track. Instead of "pulling rank" and telling him he is not allowed to post that kind of information, why not lok at what he actually posted, and point out where you disagree?
If you take a wide/fast line in turn 1 there's some bumps in the middle of it, don't roll on the throttle too early and you'll be fine.
Correct. There is a bumpy section there.
Turn 2/3 is a funny one, they are just far enough apart to not take a smooth line through them both, so swing way wide on the exit of 2, right to the turtle strip then turn in for 3 (it's much tighter than 2).
That's about right. Some fast guys can make 2/3 into one turn, but novice and intermediate riders mostly do what was described.
Turn 6 is a decreasing radius left hander, most crashes happen here, don't turn in too early, take it easy.
I'm not sure if it is really decreasing radius, but it's true that a lot of crashes happen there and a novice is well-advised to approach it with caution.
Pick a line as straight as possible through the chicane (labelled 7/8 on the above map but generally referred to as 7a/7b)
Check, and check.
and stay to the right for the quick/high speed left hander (9 on the above map) then slow er down for the next right hander (called turn 10 on the above map), it's tighter and longer than it looks.
Correct on both accounts.
Try and ride the double apex corner (labelled 12 and 13 on the above map) in one smooth continuous arc, throttle control is key.
Correct, even a novice should be trying to achieve this - most guys manage it on their first day if they try.
And don't roll on the throttle too early as you come onto the straight, there's a bump that's extra fun if you do
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Not sure about this one. Unclear to me what bump he is taking about. But playing it safe coming onto the straight is good advice for a novice who might get freaked out by the pit wall.
As far as I can tell, what Jamie posted is a decent description of the corners as they would be experienced by someone at TMP for the first time. I expect that a new rider to the track would find the information quite useful.
Either what he posted is right or it is wrong. If it is wrong, point out how it is wrong...don't just pull rank with no further input. That just comes off as arrogant.
Jamie posted his impressions of the track. Instead of "pulling rank" and telling him he is not allowed to post that kind of information, why not lok at what he actually posted, and point out where you disagree?
If you take a wide/fast line in turn 1 there's some bumps in the middle of it, don't roll on the throttle too early and you'll be fine.
Correct. There is a bumpy section there.
Turn 2/3 is a funny one, they are just far enough apart to not take a smooth line through them both, so swing way wide on the exit of 2, right to the turtle strip then turn in for 3 (it's much tighter than 2).
That's about right. Some fast guys can make 2/3 into one turn, but novice and intermediate riders mostly do what was described.
Turn 6 is a decreasing radius left hander, most crashes happen here, don't turn in too early, take it easy.
I'm not sure if it is really decreasing radius, but it's true that a lot of crashes happen there and a novice is well-advised to approach it with caution.
Pick a line as straight as possible through the chicane (labelled 7/8 on the above map but generally referred to as 7a/7b)
Check, and check.
and stay to the right for the quick/high speed left hander (9 on the above map) then slow er down for the next right hander (called turn 10 on the above map), it's tighter and longer than it looks.
Correct on both accounts.
Try and ride the double apex corner (labelled 12 and 13 on the above map) in one smooth continuous arc, throttle control is key.
Correct, even a novice should be trying to achieve this - most guys manage it on their first day if they try.
And don't roll on the throttle too early as you come onto the straight, there's a bump that's extra fun if you do
.Not sure about this one. Unclear to me what bump he is taking about. But playing it safe coming onto the straight is good advice for a novice who might get freaked out by the pit wall.
As far as I can tell, what Jamie posted is a decent description of the corners as they would be experienced by someone at TMP for the first time. I expect that a new rider to the track would find the information quite useful.
Either what he posted is right or it is wrong. If it is wrong, point out how it is wrong...don't just pull rank with no further input. That just comes off as arrogant.
no, doing one trackday and posting advice that is incorrect is arrogant.
a good portion of what both of you posted is incorrect.
turn one is VERY important,,, getting on the gas early is key and, don't take a wide line, it's not correct.
2-3 should be taken as 1 turn by EVERYONE, you get faster by taking the proper line.
want me to continue?
a good portion of what both of you posted is incorrect.
turn one is VERY important,,, getting on the gas early is key and, don't take a wide line, it's not correct.
2-3 should be taken as 1 turn by EVERYONE, you get faster by taking the proper line.
want me to continue?
plz continue I want to learn
to be fair I think most of what Jamie said is correct for someone who is new/starting doing TDs. You really can't expect a beginner to downshift+brake and make 2/3 in 1 turn.
to be fair I think most of what Jamie said is correct for someone who is new/starting doing TDs. You really can't expect a beginner to downshift+brake and make 2/3 in 1 turn.
I think the issue is having someone that's turned 20-30 laps on a track for their first day ever giving advice. Let the op go out and ask/follow someone's line that knows what their doing. Granted TAFB is just trying to help but he's also coming off as if he knows what he's talking about. There's a way around almost all the bumps mabie even all of them I don't know I've only been there 4/5 times.
Why not??
Would it not make sense to learn Properly?
If you ride the turn properly, even if you're lap times are more slow to begin with, you will ride INTO the line, and will not be required to adjust your line as you progress to a quicker pace.
As a beginner, there is ONE way to do it,, as you gain experience and skill, you can adjust line selection and corner techniques based on conditions.
lol, you guys are funny
I was just regurgitating what the instructors at the Intro to Track course told us, the lines they showed us, and my impressions of the track and it's corners. I would expect someone doing their first track day to encounter the same noob issues as myself, so wanted to give him a heads up so he can keep his stuff shiny!
I would have been super grateful if someone had posted the TMP track map before my intro to track day, so when they were talking "turn 6" I woulda had some freaking clue what part of the track they were talking about! The track map on TMP's site is confusing (shows both configs overlapping) and none of the turns are numbered
Sorry for trying to help.
-Jamie M.
I was just regurgitating what the instructors at the Intro to Track course told us, the lines they showed us, and my impressions of the track and it's corners. I would expect someone doing their first track day to encounter the same noob issues as myself, so wanted to give him a heads up so he can keep his stuff shiny!
I would have been super grateful if someone had posted the TMP track map before my intro to track day, so when they were talking "turn 6" I woulda had some freaking clue what part of the track they were talking about! The track map on TMP's site is confusing (shows both configs overlapping) and none of the turns are numbered
Sorry for trying to help.
-Jamie M.
At the TMP days run by GWB (Guys With Bikes), if someone is by themselves you give your information to the organizers there, and they record it and also write it on a piece of tape and stick it to your helmet. You can leave your car keys with them, etc. If you get knocked out or seriously injured they will take care of your equipment, car, animals at your house, etc. (their words, not mine). Made the few people that were there by themselves feel really comfortable!
-Jamie M.
Seriously? Half of what he wrote is fairly valid while the other half is wrong.
If you were at the track and wanted some help with something like this would you go ask another beginner group rider or would you go ask someone in the advanced group who clearly knows how to get themselves around a race track? Back when I was new, and even now, there are two rules I like to follow.
1- There are people who know a lot more about this than I do.
2- When those people are talking, shut up and listen.
I don't always feel comfortable giving advice, especially on the internet where anyone can read it in perpetuity and it doesn't evolve into a natural discussion and they might not understand it properly.
Jamie's thoughts on turn 1 make no sense to me. A wide line makes no sense because this isn't NASCAR. You can make a wide entry or exit, but a wide line in general simply makes no sense. How people run off the track in turn 1 is a great mystery to me, their approach to that corner must be incredibly wrong if they are anywhere near the left side of the track on the exit. I honestly don't understand how anyone crashes or runs off in that corner.
There is a white paint line that runs down the inside of of the track between 1 and 2. If your right knee does not pass over the end of that paint line at the exit of 1 your line is wrong. Once you figure that out you can get on the gas very early and very hard exiting 1.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2
If you were at the track and wanted some help with something like this would you go ask another beginner group rider or would you go ask someone in the advanced group who clearly knows how to get themselves around a race track? Back when I was new, and even now, there are two rules I like to follow.
1- There are people who know a lot more about this than I do.
2- When those people are talking, shut up and listen.
I don't always feel comfortable giving advice, especially on the internet where anyone can read it in perpetuity and it doesn't evolve into a natural discussion and they might not understand it properly.
Jamie's thoughts on turn 1 make no sense to me. A wide line makes no sense because this isn't NASCAR. You can make a wide entry or exit, but a wide line in general simply makes no sense. How people run off the track in turn 1 is a great mystery to me, their approach to that corner must be incredibly wrong if they are anywhere near the left side of the track on the exit. I honestly don't understand how anyone crashes or runs off in that corner.
There is a white paint line that runs down the inside of of the track between 1 and 2. If your right knee does not pass over the end of that paint line at the exit of 1 your line is wrong. Once you figure that out you can get on the gas very early and very hard exiting 1.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2
See, now this is actually getting useful.
I agree on Turn 1 - I have never been able to get even close to running out of room on the exit there, no matter how much I screw up my courage and take as much entry speed as I dare. It is not a corner where you should really have any problems as a novice, other than taking it too slow and losing time.
I completely disagree that a novice track day rider should expect to make T2 / T3 into one continuous turn. That's just not realistic and would be very awkward at green-group pace. I have done maybe 9 days at TMP, and have maybe pulled that off once or twice. Granted, I am somewhat untalented, but most of the fast guys that I follow after getting blown away between T1 and T2 aren't doing it either. I suggest that fast guys who recommend that just have no recollection of what 1:37 feels like.
Another thing no one has mentioned: at TMP track days, there are cones out marking turn entry points, apices and exits. They shouldn't be taken as gospel, but they are pretty good first guesses for someone totally new to the track, or to track riding in general. I found them very useful on my first visit to TMP.
I agree on Turn 1 - I have never been able to get even close to running out of room on the exit there, no matter how much I screw up my courage and take as much entry speed as I dare. It is not a corner where you should really have any problems as a novice, other than taking it too slow and losing time.
I completely disagree that a novice track day rider should expect to make T2 / T3 into one continuous turn. That's just not realistic and would be very awkward at green-group pace. I have done maybe 9 days at TMP, and have maybe pulled that off once or twice. Granted, I am somewhat untalented, but most of the fast guys that I follow after getting blown away between T1 and T2 aren't doing it either. I suggest that fast guys who recommend that just have no recollection of what 1:37 feels like.
Another thing no one has mentioned: at TMP track days, there are cones out marking turn entry points, apices and exits. They shouldn't be taken as gospel, but they are pretty good first guesses for someone totally new to the track, or to track riding in general. I found them very useful on my first visit to TMP.
I would have been super grateful if someone had posted the TMP track map before my intro to track day, so when they were talking "turn 6" I woulda had some freaking clue what part of the track they were talking about! The track map on TMP's site is confusing (shows both configs overlapping) and none of the turns are numbered
Yes, that map you posted is the best I have seen of TMP. Too bad about the non-standard numbering beginning at 7, but otherwise it is very useful.
Gona have to disagree, TMP was my first track day and that's how i felt it was the best way
Just another point of view
I wasn't 100% sure on the numbering after 6 so I didn't want to photoshop it to correct it. So the chicane is called 7A/7B and each number is one less after that? The final double apex is called 11 and 12?
I e-mailed TMP to see if they can provide a PDF or higher res version of that map, it's so excellent. Shows you the main entrance, the two roads to take you to the track area, where you can park/camp, food, washrooms, timing beacon location, etc.! Great map!!
Also, are there any nicknames for the corners? I saw "the kink" for the chicane, any more?
-Jamie M.
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Personally, once I get on the track I know I'm going to forget it all. I need to see it and be on it and follow someone around listening and learning at the scene so I can assess and make my own decisions. I need to run the course over and over to get it imprinted, the same way riding roads get imprinted over time.
That's what's worked for me on the road in the 100,000+ kms I have on 2 wheels so far, so it'll be what I do on the track.
I realize that I'm new,and my ego's checked at the door.
That's what's worked for me on the road in the 100,000+ kms I have on 2 wheels so far, so it'll be what I do on the track.
I realize that I'm new,and my ego's checked at the door.
HBHarrison
Well-known member
:agave:
As soon as i started reading jamies post i was like ...."oh no, he is gonna get hammered from so many people for giving full riding /track advice after 1 beginner ttack day" (no offense jamie) i know your just trying to help
I'm pretty sure people miss turn 1 because they are coming in too hot.
We were taught to do t2/t3 in one continuous turn and I managed it 99% of the time. Not really that difficult at all and I've only done 4 tds.
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