Dreseden nice summary :lmao:
I wonder how long this insanity will last....
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
awyala
Guest
*Edit corrected some estimates
Some Number Crunching Below:
Home: $300k (typical suburban cookie cutter 2000 sq ft) (1998), 0 down, 40 years amm period.
Total payments = ~$500k (by 2038) (adjusted for 1198 money, more like ~$400k (the interest on $300k is paid off mostly over the first 20 years and thus there is some depreciation in the value of the dollar when making payments 20 years (2018) into a mortgage.
Home sold at retirement time (2038): $800k (older home by then - currently (2013) going for high $400s). $500k in hand by 2038. Seems like you more than doubled your money don't it?
Toss in the upkeep required over 40 years...safe to guestimate $100k
Property tax ran about $3.5k x 40 yrs = ~$120k
Bills for a large house over a small apartment roughly $300/m = $3.5k x 40 = ~$120k
So that $500k (that hasn't been inflation adjusted) has subtracted from it a further ($120k + $120k + $100k) = ~$160k, but that doesn't consider the additional $200k spent in interest payments!
Totoal profit then? = $160k - $200k = $-40k.
That's right after all is said an done the home owner nets losses of $40k by the end of the 40 year period.
Total spend = $300 (initial 1998 loan) + $200k (interest by 2018) + $100k (1 major reno at end of life to prepare for resale) + $120k (property tax) + $120k (bills above that of renting) = $840k
Do any of you think you can flip a 1998 Mississauga 2000 sq ft house in 20 years for around $900k?!?! Sounds impressive no? Well yes and no...you CAN do it, but you CAN'T do much better. So congrats you may just break even. Flipping a $900k home bought for $300k 40 years earlier is only a realistic growth rate of 2.7%!!!!!! Pretty much inflation.
Still think you came out a bandit?!?! Just to give you an idea of what making out like a bandit looks like....a value growth of say 5% to outstrip an average inflation of 2.5% will mean you need to flip a $600k home (today) for $4.2 MILLION!!!!!! in 40 years. While the home will actually be valued at $1.6 Million when adjusted for inflation. Add to that projected property taxes $336k + bills $336k + major reno at end of life of house $278 ($100k in todays money) = $950k in maintenance and bills
So Note: You did not double your money! So when you say to people "I bought for $500k and sold for a mill", in actually you did not. You likely just broke even. You could have rented and treated your apartment as a home (i.e. put aside pretend money for renos and pretend property tax and pretend higher bills)....or you could have diverted a portion of that money to lifestyle choices such as travel or continued education or whatever.
Others choose to sink that money into their home, as they may be more homely in nature in terms of their lifestyle. It's not they are house poor either, they just have different priorities.
Let's do a renters calc....I'm gonna grab a typical 2bd 900 sq ft apartment from central Mississauga as an example...
15 years ago they were renting for $800 to $1000 per mo. Now they go for $1800. Let's use today's values or close to it for a 40 year average
So. $2000 x 12 x 40 = $960,000.
I gotta say....looks like the home owner comes out on top, having spent $840k over the same period and they were able to enjoy a much better standard of accommodation through out the period. Not to mention the prestige and warm and fuzzy feeling.
But the home owner doesn't really come out with a nest egg. More to the point the home owner pretty much used the home as a money matress...they get out of it what they put into it. It is not an investment. The only way to beat the system and to turn your home into an investment is to utilize the techniques mentioned in the thread above, i.e. flip strategically and move further and further out of the core of the city to bank on price differentials.
Or use the advantage of the flexibility of renting to job hop from city to city and increase income through bounding....also, if it suits you, derive a prestigious lifestyle and that warm fuzzy feeling by traveling the world, etc. Renting adds the flexibility of also immediate up or downsizing to save money. As kids leave the next egg, the renter would need to immediately downsize to a 1 bedroom or studio to improve the renting numbers above.
However that being said, the numbers I crunched above are guesstimates and not considerate of the specific details of when you purchased (high or low markets), locations, your family circumstances, etc. For example
My inlaws baught a house for $550k in 1990...can't sell for even $850k now. To crunch these numbers would probably come out worse than a renters scenario. However they also had 4 kids, and penty of room to even accommodate their children's families every time one of them hit some hard times and needed to move into the basement, or moved in to capitalize on a flip sale of their properties. Essentially the large home became a base to kick start 4 successful offsprings' lives from that of a working class immigrant couple. An apartment can't meet those needs.
A lot of people seem to produce some impressive stats and figures but these are so skewed and tailored to our individual needs that no one answer is right for the other.
You should all do CPI (including rent) comparisons to other world cities...you'll find the "madness" of Toronto is actually quite tame.
I am considering a move to the Middle East and when seriously number crunching I have short listed the following. Muscat stands out as a place to head to, but even that choice is highly personal and has a lot to do with cultural factors. How many of you would seriously move away from the GTA to say Nebraska to achieve that elusive income to CPI advantage? It's not madness when you still can't tear yourself away from this city. Buffalo, Hamilton, or Montreal stand out as options to TO if you're inclined.
[TABLE="width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]City[/TD]
[TD]Consumer Price Index[/TD]
[TD]Rent Index[/TD]
[TD]Consumer Price Plus Rent Index[/TD]
[TD]Groceries Index[/TD]
[TD]Restaurant Price Index[/TD]
[TD]Local Purchasing Power Index[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hong Kong, Hong Kong (151)[/TD]
[TD]79.44[/TD]
[TD]128.31[/TD]
[TD]102.91[/TD]
[TD]78.1[/TD]
[TD]64.05[/TD]
[TD]96.31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Perth, Australia (11)[/TD]
[TD]130.07[/TD]
[TD]70.41[/TD]
[TD]101.41[/TD]
[TD]116.25[/TD]
[TD]126.02[/TD]
[TD]121.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]London, United Kingdom (26)[/TD]
[TD]113.84[/TD]
[TD]86.69[/TD]
[TD]100.8[/TD]
[TD]89.48[/TD]
[TD]106.27[/TD]
[TD]79.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]New York, NY, United States (73)[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Paris, France (17)[/TD]
[TD]119.44[/TD]
[TD]68.56[/TD]
[TD]95.01[/TD]
[TD]113.37[/TD]
[TD]111.49[/TD]
[TD]89.89[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vancouver, Canada (47)[/TD]
[TD]105.3[/TD]
[TD]59.31[/TD]
[TD]83.21[/TD]
[TD]108.55[/TD]
[TD]92.63[/TD]
[TD]81.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Auckland, New Zealand (38)[/TD]
[TD]106.3[/TD]
[TD]49.97[/TD]
[TD]79.24[/TD]
[TD]94.19[/TD]
[TD]91.14[/TD]
[TD]96.78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rome, Italy (92)[/TD]
[TD]96.29[/TD]
[TD]60.2[/TD]
[TD]78.96[/TD]
[TD]79.94[/TD]
[TD]107.18[/TD]
[TD]62.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kuwait City, Kuwait (49)[/TD]
[TD]104.87[/TD]
[TD]49.71[/TD]
[TD]78.38[/TD]
[TD]131.76[/TD]
[TD]87.86[/TD]
[TD]76.01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Doha, Qatar (157)[/TD]
[TD]78.9[/TD]
[TD]77.76[/TD]
[TD]78.35[/TD]
[TD]68.33[/TD]
[TD]82.97[/TD]
[TD]134.82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Toronto, Canada (84)[/TD]
[TD]97.42[/TD]
[TD]54.28[/TD]
[TD]76.7[/TD]
[TD]91.3[/TD]
[TD]86[/TD]
[TD]98.72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mississauga, Canada (56)[/TD]
[TD]103.26[/TD]
[TD]46.95[/TD]
[TD]76.21[/TD]
[TD]102.22[/TD]
[TD]84.79[/TD]
[TD]115.91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Manama, Bahrain (30)[/TD]
[TD]109.11[/TD]
[TD]36.59[/TD]
[TD]74.28[/TD]
[TD]153.85[/TD]
[TD]70.01[/TD]
[TD]36.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Venice, Italy (44)[/TD]
[TD]105.58[/TD]
[TD]40.41[/TD]
[TD]74.28[/TD]
[TD]82.49[/TD]
[TD]115.86[/TD]
[TD]105.78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (208)[/TD]
[TD]67.46[/TD]
[TD]77.46[/TD]
[TD]72.26[/TD]
[TD]54.65[/TD]
[TD]69.51[/TD]
[TD]115.92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Moscow, Russia (153)[/TD]
[TD]79.37[/TD]
[TD]63.17[/TD]
[TD]71.59[/TD]
[TD]55.57[/TD]
[TD]100.01[/TD]
[TD]50.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Los Angeles, CA, United States (166)[/TD]
[TD]77.56[/TD]
[TD]61.92[/TD]
[TD]70.05[/TD]
[TD]66.19[/TD]
[TD]80.38[/TD]
[TD]128.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]San Diego, CA, United States (137)[/TD]
[TD]81.16[/TD]
[TD]56.9[/TD]
[TD]69.51[/TD]
[TD]75.11[/TD]
[TD]80.06[/TD]
[TD]132.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dubai, United Arab Emirates (190)[/TD]
[TD]72.84[/TD]
[TD]64.58[/TD]
[TD]68.87[/TD]
[TD]62.11[/TD]
[TD]67.88[/TD]
[TD]130.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hamilton, Canada (99)[/TD]
[TD]93.63[/TD]
[TD]29.24[/TD]
[TD]62.7[/TD]
[TD]86.05[/TD]
[TD]70.83[/TD]
[TD]112.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Montreal, Canada (119)[/TD]
[TD]88.3[/TD]
[TD]33.32[/TD]
[TD]61.89[/TD]
[TD]89.39[/TD]
[TD]84.52[/TD]
[TD]114.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Buffalo, NY, United States (131)[/TD]
[TD]84.62[/TD]
[TD]34.81[/TD]
[TD]60.7[/TD]
[TD]84.5[/TD]
[TD]67.14[/TD]
[TD]135.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jeddah (Jiddah), Saudi Arabia (81)[/TD]
[TD]98.21[/TD]
[TD]18.52[/TD]
[TD]59.93[/TD]
[TD]116.94[/TD]
[TD]37.9[/TD]
[TD]79.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Muscat, Oman (242)[/TD]
[TD]59.89[/TD]
[TD]37.24[/TD]
[TD]49.01[/TD]
[TD]49.07[/TD]
[TD]54.18[/TD]
[TD]129.09[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (183)[/TD]
[TD]74.1[/TD]
[TD]17.38[/TD]
[TD]46.86[/TD]
[TD]46.87[/TD]
[TD]38.86[/TD]
[TD]116.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Istanbul, Turkey (217)[/TD]
[TD]65.18[/TD]
[TD]19.01[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]49.55[/TD]
[TD]51.99[/TD]
[TD]63.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (259)[/TD]
[TD]57.03[/TD]
[TD]24.82[/TD]
[TD]41.56[/TD]
[TD]55.67[/TD]
[TD]29.69[/TD]
[TD]78.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ankara, Turkey (248)[/TD]
[TD]58.39[/TD]
[TD]13.19[/TD]
[TD]36.68[/TD]
[TD]45.28[/TD]
[TD]45.53[/TD]
[TD]63.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cairo, Egypt (328)[/TD]
[TD]41.72[/TD]
[TD]11.49[/TD]
[TD]27.2[/TD]
[TD]36.21[/TD]
[TD]36.19[/TD]
[TD]26.96[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I'm gonna end with a calculation below:
So if you pay $600k now, in 40 years you will break even if you sell for $2.6 million (adjusted at 2.5% inflation over 40 years). Sounds like you quadrupled your money don't it?!?! Nope.
Now let's do a rental calc in today's money for a 2bdrm apartment (currently estimating $2000 / mo rent) = $1.6 Million over 40 years, adjusted for 2.5% inflation.
With the current home prices you may be better off renting!!! with the caveat below...
Note however I did not compare renting a 2000 sq ft home! I compared a 2bdrm apartment. The lesson here is if you can do with less space and rent you can save money on buying space you dont need. And it is these sort of questions and calcs you have to run over and over again to find what works for you! If you rent a house for $4000k / mo you will end up spending $3.2 Million...(buying being the winning option in this case), however the question isn't about renting a house of equal space and quality as opposed to buying...the question is, is it worth buying the house YOU DON"T REALLY NEED vs buying a smaller home or renting only what you do need.
Every time I crunch the numbers home owning comes out on top by a small margin when comparing like for like. But who would rent a 2000sq ft house for 40 years anyways?!??!?!
Some Number Crunching Below:
Home: $300k (typical suburban cookie cutter 2000 sq ft) (1998), 0 down, 40 years amm period.
Total payments = ~$500k (by 2038) (adjusted for 1198 money, more like ~$400k (the interest on $300k is paid off mostly over the first 20 years and thus there is some depreciation in the value of the dollar when making payments 20 years (2018) into a mortgage.
Home sold at retirement time (2038): $800k (older home by then - currently (2013) going for high $400s). $500k in hand by 2038. Seems like you more than doubled your money don't it?
Toss in the upkeep required over 40 years...safe to guestimate $100k
Property tax ran about $3.5k x 40 yrs = ~$120k
Bills for a large house over a small apartment roughly $300/m = $3.5k x 40 = ~$120k
So that $500k (that hasn't been inflation adjusted) has subtracted from it a further ($120k + $120k + $100k) = ~$160k, but that doesn't consider the additional $200k spent in interest payments!
Totoal profit then? = $160k - $200k = $-40k.
That's right after all is said an done the home owner nets losses of $40k by the end of the 40 year period.
Total spend = $300 (initial 1998 loan) + $200k (interest by 2018) + $100k (1 major reno at end of life to prepare for resale) + $120k (property tax) + $120k (bills above that of renting) = $840k
Do any of you think you can flip a 1998 Mississauga 2000 sq ft house in 20 years for around $900k?!?! Sounds impressive no? Well yes and no...you CAN do it, but you CAN'T do much better. So congrats you may just break even. Flipping a $900k home bought for $300k 40 years earlier is only a realistic growth rate of 2.7%!!!!!! Pretty much inflation.
Still think you came out a bandit?!?! Just to give you an idea of what making out like a bandit looks like....a value growth of say 5% to outstrip an average inflation of 2.5% will mean you need to flip a $600k home (today) for $4.2 MILLION!!!!!! in 40 years. While the home will actually be valued at $1.6 Million when adjusted for inflation. Add to that projected property taxes $336k + bills $336k + major reno at end of life of house $278 ($100k in todays money) = $950k in maintenance and bills
So Note: You did not double your money! So when you say to people "I bought for $500k and sold for a mill", in actually you did not. You likely just broke even. You could have rented and treated your apartment as a home (i.e. put aside pretend money for renos and pretend property tax and pretend higher bills)....or you could have diverted a portion of that money to lifestyle choices such as travel or continued education or whatever.
Others choose to sink that money into their home, as they may be more homely in nature in terms of their lifestyle. It's not they are house poor either, they just have different priorities.
Let's do a renters calc....I'm gonna grab a typical 2bd 900 sq ft apartment from central Mississauga as an example...
15 years ago they were renting for $800 to $1000 per mo. Now they go for $1800. Let's use today's values or close to it for a 40 year average
So. $2000 x 12 x 40 = $960,000.
I gotta say....looks like the home owner comes out on top, having spent $840k over the same period and they were able to enjoy a much better standard of accommodation through out the period. Not to mention the prestige and warm and fuzzy feeling.
But the home owner doesn't really come out with a nest egg. More to the point the home owner pretty much used the home as a money matress...they get out of it what they put into it. It is not an investment. The only way to beat the system and to turn your home into an investment is to utilize the techniques mentioned in the thread above, i.e. flip strategically and move further and further out of the core of the city to bank on price differentials.
Or use the advantage of the flexibility of renting to job hop from city to city and increase income through bounding....also, if it suits you, derive a prestigious lifestyle and that warm fuzzy feeling by traveling the world, etc. Renting adds the flexibility of also immediate up or downsizing to save money. As kids leave the next egg, the renter would need to immediately downsize to a 1 bedroom or studio to improve the renting numbers above.
However that being said, the numbers I crunched above are guesstimates and not considerate of the specific details of when you purchased (high or low markets), locations, your family circumstances, etc. For example
My inlaws baught a house for $550k in 1990...can't sell for even $850k now. To crunch these numbers would probably come out worse than a renters scenario. However they also had 4 kids, and penty of room to even accommodate their children's families every time one of them hit some hard times and needed to move into the basement, or moved in to capitalize on a flip sale of their properties. Essentially the large home became a base to kick start 4 successful offsprings' lives from that of a working class immigrant couple. An apartment can't meet those needs.
A lot of people seem to produce some impressive stats and figures but these are so skewed and tailored to our individual needs that no one answer is right for the other.
You should all do CPI (including rent) comparisons to other world cities...you'll find the "madness" of Toronto is actually quite tame.
I am considering a move to the Middle East and when seriously number crunching I have short listed the following. Muscat stands out as a place to head to, but even that choice is highly personal and has a lot to do with cultural factors. How many of you would seriously move away from the GTA to say Nebraska to achieve that elusive income to CPI advantage? It's not madness when you still can't tear yourself away from this city. Buffalo, Hamilton, or Montreal stand out as options to TO if you're inclined.
[TABLE="width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]City[/TD]
[TD]Consumer Price Index[/TD]
[TD]Rent Index[/TD]
[TD]Consumer Price Plus Rent Index[/TD]
[TD]Groceries Index[/TD]
[TD]Restaurant Price Index[/TD]
[TD]Local Purchasing Power Index[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hong Kong, Hong Kong (151)[/TD]
[TD]79.44[/TD]
[TD]128.31[/TD]
[TD]102.91[/TD]
[TD]78.1[/TD]
[TD]64.05[/TD]
[TD]96.31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Perth, Australia (11)[/TD]
[TD]130.07[/TD]
[TD]70.41[/TD]
[TD]101.41[/TD]
[TD]116.25[/TD]
[TD]126.02[/TD]
[TD]121.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]London, United Kingdom (26)[/TD]
[TD]113.84[/TD]
[TD]86.69[/TD]
[TD]100.8[/TD]
[TD]89.48[/TD]
[TD]106.27[/TD]
[TD]79.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]New York, NY, United States (73)[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Paris, France (17)[/TD]
[TD]119.44[/TD]
[TD]68.56[/TD]
[TD]95.01[/TD]
[TD]113.37[/TD]
[TD]111.49[/TD]
[TD]89.89[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vancouver, Canada (47)[/TD]
[TD]105.3[/TD]
[TD]59.31[/TD]
[TD]83.21[/TD]
[TD]108.55[/TD]
[TD]92.63[/TD]
[TD]81.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Auckland, New Zealand (38)[/TD]
[TD]106.3[/TD]
[TD]49.97[/TD]
[TD]79.24[/TD]
[TD]94.19[/TD]
[TD]91.14[/TD]
[TD]96.78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rome, Italy (92)[/TD]
[TD]96.29[/TD]
[TD]60.2[/TD]
[TD]78.96[/TD]
[TD]79.94[/TD]
[TD]107.18[/TD]
[TD]62.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kuwait City, Kuwait (49)[/TD]
[TD]104.87[/TD]
[TD]49.71[/TD]
[TD]78.38[/TD]
[TD]131.76[/TD]
[TD]87.86[/TD]
[TD]76.01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Doha, Qatar (157)[/TD]
[TD]78.9[/TD]
[TD]77.76[/TD]
[TD]78.35[/TD]
[TD]68.33[/TD]
[TD]82.97[/TD]
[TD]134.82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Toronto, Canada (84)[/TD]
[TD]97.42[/TD]
[TD]54.28[/TD]
[TD]76.7[/TD]
[TD]91.3[/TD]
[TD]86[/TD]
[TD]98.72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mississauga, Canada (56)[/TD]
[TD]103.26[/TD]
[TD]46.95[/TD]
[TD]76.21[/TD]
[TD]102.22[/TD]
[TD]84.79[/TD]
[TD]115.91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Manama, Bahrain (30)[/TD]
[TD]109.11[/TD]
[TD]36.59[/TD]
[TD]74.28[/TD]
[TD]153.85[/TD]
[TD]70.01[/TD]
[TD]36.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Venice, Italy (44)[/TD]
[TD]105.58[/TD]
[TD]40.41[/TD]
[TD]74.28[/TD]
[TD]82.49[/TD]
[TD]115.86[/TD]
[TD]105.78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates (208)[/TD]
[TD]67.46[/TD]
[TD]77.46[/TD]
[TD]72.26[/TD]
[TD]54.65[/TD]
[TD]69.51[/TD]
[TD]115.92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Moscow, Russia (153)[/TD]
[TD]79.37[/TD]
[TD]63.17[/TD]
[TD]71.59[/TD]
[TD]55.57[/TD]
[TD]100.01[/TD]
[TD]50.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Los Angeles, CA, United States (166)[/TD]
[TD]77.56[/TD]
[TD]61.92[/TD]
[TD]70.05[/TD]
[TD]66.19[/TD]
[TD]80.38[/TD]
[TD]128.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]San Diego, CA, United States (137)[/TD]
[TD]81.16[/TD]
[TD]56.9[/TD]
[TD]69.51[/TD]
[TD]75.11[/TD]
[TD]80.06[/TD]
[TD]132.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dubai, United Arab Emirates (190)[/TD]
[TD]72.84[/TD]
[TD]64.58[/TD]
[TD]68.87[/TD]
[TD]62.11[/TD]
[TD]67.88[/TD]
[TD]130.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hamilton, Canada (99)[/TD]
[TD]93.63[/TD]
[TD]29.24[/TD]
[TD]62.7[/TD]
[TD]86.05[/TD]
[TD]70.83[/TD]
[TD]112.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Montreal, Canada (119)[/TD]
[TD]88.3[/TD]
[TD]33.32[/TD]
[TD]61.89[/TD]
[TD]89.39[/TD]
[TD]84.52[/TD]
[TD]114.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Buffalo, NY, United States (131)[/TD]
[TD]84.62[/TD]
[TD]34.81[/TD]
[TD]60.7[/TD]
[TD]84.5[/TD]
[TD]67.14[/TD]
[TD]135.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jeddah (Jiddah), Saudi Arabia (81)[/TD]
[TD]98.21[/TD]
[TD]18.52[/TD]
[TD]59.93[/TD]
[TD]116.94[/TD]
[TD]37.9[/TD]
[TD]79.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Muscat, Oman (242)[/TD]
[TD]59.89[/TD]
[TD]37.24[/TD]
[TD]49.01[/TD]
[TD]49.07[/TD]
[TD]54.18[/TD]
[TD]129.09[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (183)[/TD]
[TD]74.1[/TD]
[TD]17.38[/TD]
[TD]46.86[/TD]
[TD]46.87[/TD]
[TD]38.86[/TD]
[TD]116.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Istanbul, Turkey (217)[/TD]
[TD]65.18[/TD]
[TD]19.01[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]49.55[/TD]
[TD]51.99[/TD]
[TD]63.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (259)[/TD]
[TD]57.03[/TD]
[TD]24.82[/TD]
[TD]41.56[/TD]
[TD]55.67[/TD]
[TD]29.69[/TD]
[TD]78.71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ankara, Turkey (248)[/TD]
[TD]58.39[/TD]
[TD]13.19[/TD]
[TD]36.68[/TD]
[TD]45.28[/TD]
[TD]45.53[/TD]
[TD]63.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cairo, Egypt (328)[/TD]
[TD]41.72[/TD]
[TD]11.49[/TD]
[TD]27.2[/TD]
[TD]36.21[/TD]
[TD]36.19[/TD]
[TD]26.96[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I'm gonna end with a calculation below:
So if you pay $600k now, in 40 years you will break even if you sell for $2.6 million (adjusted at 2.5% inflation over 40 years). Sounds like you quadrupled your money don't it?!?! Nope.
Now let's do a rental calc in today's money for a 2bdrm apartment (currently estimating $2000 / mo rent) = $1.6 Million over 40 years, adjusted for 2.5% inflation.
With the current home prices you may be better off renting!!! with the caveat below...
Note however I did not compare renting a 2000 sq ft home! I compared a 2bdrm apartment. The lesson here is if you can do with less space and rent you can save money on buying space you dont need. And it is these sort of questions and calcs you have to run over and over again to find what works for you! If you rent a house for $4000k / mo you will end up spending $3.2 Million...(buying being the winning option in this case), however the question isn't about renting a house of equal space and quality as opposed to buying...the question is, is it worth buying the house YOU DON"T REALLY NEED vs buying a smaller home or renting only what you do need.
Every time I crunch the numbers home owning comes out on top by a small margin when comparing like for like. But who would rent a 2000sq ft house for 40 years anyways?!??!?!
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You cant seem to grasp the idea that life isn't always easy.
Trade school is full of middle aged men and women with families. Those who feel they cant make the change, well, they put themselves in that position.
Its funny you keep trying to point out my ignorance towards the subject but it seems that you don't actually have a clue what is required to actually get a trade.
lator-illa
Well-known member
I'm confused? I thought I was the one defending that life isn't always easy? lol
You're generalizing that because Trade school is full of middle aged men and women, that all of them should be able to do it and if they can't, well it's completely their fault. Right....
I think I know enough that even if you successfully complete Trade school, you simply just don't earn the big bucks immediately...As someone has already mentioned in this thread.
What is holding you back then? If you want a better paying job you need the schooling usually to qualify for it?
I'm not being an arse, when I asked you what education you had I thought I may have a lead for you. However programming is one thing we outsource.
I have a family member who did 3 different programs before she settled on something that could actually pay the bills. Went from some sort of production (think theatre), to a general arts and science to finally going to a school/work program to get into xray. Her first choice was a passion, second grasped at straws and the third was a reality check.
I'm not being an arse, when I asked you what education you had I thought I may have a lead for you. However programming is one thing we outsource.
I have a family member who did 3 different programs before she settled on something that could actually pay the bills. Went from some sort of production (think theatre), to a general arts and science to finally going to a school/work program to get into xray. Her first choice was a passion, second grasped at straws and the third was a reality check.
Actually when you complete trade school you should be making fully journeymen rate.....or at least vary soon after.
Give one circumstance that would prevent someone from getting a trade that is completely out of their control.
Born with no arms or legs...?
didn't see that in the thread anywhere? Or they can just skid out, crashing and burning as their supports slowly disappear. Lots of people spend their lives just barely hanging on, until their margins run out. That happens a hell of a lot more often than some sort of magical self-reinvention.
Willpower and discipline are important, but if sheer desire was the only thing a man needed to succeed, jonesing crackheads would be the richest people in the world.
lator-illa
Well-known member
No kidding this thread derailed quickly...
Please bear in mind that i'm not asking these questions for myself in particular. I'm merely defending the ones who aren't as fortunate as us. But to give an overview of my situation. I graduated in Programming during the IT bubble. I got a contract job for 6 months and was let go. After a year of not being able to find a job in my field(or any job for that matter), I was able to land a position with a major Financial Institution. I've grinded my way to where i'm at now in which I make DECENT money. Perhaps not as much as alot of you folks on here but enough where I can spend money on extra clothes and a motorcycle!
Are you serious? Hmm this shouldn't be too hard.
How about a family paying for a mortgage and all other bills + kids in daycare etc etc. One parent unexpectedly gets laid off due to outsourcing...Realistically, can this parent even afford to go to any type of schooling?
I get this impression that you guys think the only reason for these people not willing to change their career is due to laziness. You honestly believe it's just this ONE factor stopping people from going to school? I don't know what fantasy land you guys live in but I know so many people who are grasping to stay afloat and they work their ***** off. Like I said, some people just do not catch their break.
Please bear in mind that i'm not asking these questions for myself in particular. I'm merely defending the ones who aren't as fortunate as us. But to give an overview of my situation. I graduated in Programming during the IT bubble. I got a contract job for 6 months and was let go. After a year of not being able to find a job in my field(or any job for that matter), I was able to land a position with a major Financial Institution. I've grinded my way to where i'm at now in which I make DECENT money. Perhaps not as much as alot of you folks on here but enough where I can spend money on extra clothes and a motorcycle!
Are you serious? Hmm this shouldn't be too hard.
How about a family paying for a mortgage and all other bills + kids in daycare etc etc. One parent unexpectedly gets laid off due to outsourcing...Realistically, can this parent even afford to go to any type of schooling?
I get this impression that you guys think the only reason for these people not willing to change their career is due to laziness. You honestly believe it's just this ONE factor stopping people from going to school? I don't know what fantasy land you guys live in but I know so many people who are grasping to stay afloat and they work their ***** off. Like I said, some people just do not catch their break.
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Laid off? With no job?
Unemployment pays $500 a week while you go to trade school.
The rest of your apprenticeship is spent working.....which comes with a pay cheque.
+ The family, kids, bills.....not exactly out of ones control.
-D-
Banned
This seems to be leaving out an obvious fact.
If you have kids then the house will pass to them when you die.
Now you have added to your family's wealth.
That house the parents paid for allows the kids to leverage to start a business or section it off and rent it out like they did to the "mansions" at Avenue Rd. and Oriole Parkway and the houses in the University areas downtown.
If you have kids then the house will pass to them when you die.
Now you have added to your family's wealth.
That house the parents paid for allows the kids to leverage to start a business or section it off and rent it out like they did to the "mansions" at Avenue Rd. and Oriole Parkway and the houses in the University areas downtown.
lator-illa
Well-known member
Unless you took out a 40 year amm and died before paying it off. Now you just entrusted your kids to your silliness lol
what? you're losing me now.
When my father died he left everything to my stepmother who has since remarried and given stuff to my half-brother (starting with his old car.)
I never received anything. No money, no sentimental items, nothing, just some books nobody else wanted. I was lucky enough to get some photos back and only because I asked for them and it was harder for her to say no because she wasn't in them.
Not everyone gets to inherit from their parents.
I never got to read the will either. The stepmother was the executor and the Quebec notary said the only person who could show me the will was the executor and she refused to. Of course this is the will that was made while he was in hospital.
I never received anything. No money, no sentimental items, nothing, just some books nobody else wanted. I was lucky enough to get some photos back and only because I asked for them and it was harder for her to say no because she wasn't in them.
Not everyone gets to inherit from their parents.
I never got to read the will either. The stepmother was the executor and the Quebec notary said the only person who could show me the will was the executor and she refused to. Of course this is the will that was made while he was in hospital.
lator-illa
Well-known member
*clap* good for you. So what kind of support system did you have when you decided to pursue this? And i'm honestly asking.
Sometimes its a good idea to get a decent job BEFORE filling the mailbox with bills.
I wouldn't say someone "cant catch a break" because they dropped out of school and had kids.
