Having kids, father gets no say ?

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ZX600 said:
Oh I see so she forgot to put "generally", I think we all got the point and there was no need for st to come out that way. I think generally once people get attacked for no reason, they tend to say **** it and stop responding, unless you are turbodish and take the internet really REALLYYYYY seriously.
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Dude, who's taking the internet too seriously here? This is the Romper Room and we debate issues. Sometimes people express opinions and sometimes people get offended.

For what it's worth, I admit I was harsh in my post. And no, I don't go around bolding people's quotes to "feel proud" but rather to point out specifically what I'm responding to (just as everyone else in this forum does). And if someone doesn't like my response or wants to debate the points I made, either ignore me or go at 'er.

What I don't find fair is a woman trying to win the argument by saying/implying that men "will never understand", when it comes to pregnancy and children. But I'll let you go back and read that post, rather than quote it for you lest you think I'm being a prick.
 
Amazon said:
if I got knocked up now, or even in the next 5 years, I'd most likely abort the mission, even if it means "accidentally" tripping and falling down a bunch of stairs.
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that's a horrible statement. I just read the Miss TMP thread and was going to vote for you, but now not a chance. I understand you're only 18, but if you're going to have sex, you should accept the consequences. Only cowards look for the easy way out. Imagine if your mom thought that way, you wouldn't be here, riding a bike, trying to be miss tmp. The problem with kids these days, no class, not mature enough to handle responsibility.
 
oilycreek said:
The problem with kids these days, no class, not mature enough to handle responsibility.
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Talking about harsh responses - Well I am out, this thread just got to emotional for me..umm i feel like a snack

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Just went and voted for Amazon for Miss TMP.
 
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Yawn
 
oilycreek said:
that's a horrible statement. I just read the Miss TMP thread and was going to vote for you, but now not a chance. I understand you're only 18, but if you're going to have sex, you should accept the consequences. Only cowards look for the easy way out. Imagine if your mom thought that way, you wouldn't be here, riding a bike, trying to be miss tmp. The problem with kids these days, no class, not mature enough to handle responsibility.
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OK, I saw on the TMP post that you have daughters. Now, HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, would you be so quick to pass judgement on one of your kids if she got accidentally knocked up, had a secret abortion and came clean to you after the fact?

You're being VERY judgemental and rather rude - just don't be upset if someone does the same thing with you.
For example, I have the exact opposite view that you have (abortion is fine and dandy and can save a ton of problems for both potential parents etc), yet I don't make harsh judgements (could say many things and belittle you simply because you're a pro-lifer, but it would not be practical or productive in this thread) about you. You have a different opinion, which I accept. You should accept and respect other people's opinions even if they fly in the face of your morals.

Amazon stated what she might do if she got pregnant. It would ruin her life at this time - put her into a situation she doesn't want to be in, and may not be capable of (no offense, Amazon). If somebody has an accident, and they're not capable of raising a child, should they really force a life of misery upon the kid?

We're all different and have different morals, wants, needs and goals. That's what makes us all unique. IF we all believed and behaved the same, we'd be awfully boring.

I've donned my asbestos suit, as I am fully expecting to be flamed by oily for my response... so go ahead.... ;-)
 
Bigevildoer said:
We're all different and have different morals, wants, needs and goals. That's what makes us all unique. IF we all believed and behaved the same, we'd be awfully boring.
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I say that all the time! Why can't people simply *respect* each other's differences? Too simple a concept, I suppose.

This is an interesting thread. I'm a firm believer that no one *really* knows what he/she would do in a situation until it happens.

I saw a tatoo recently. It says "Only God can judge me".

I hope the situation for these two people works out. It can, *if* they work together and stay focused on what's important; the child.
 
ITT: someone catching feelings, then someone catching feelings and standing up for the person who caught feelings. I sort of wonder if some of you flip out like this when you get called out in person. Like, damn...

It was a good thread while it lasted, folks. :o
 
skitta said:
I say that all the time! Why can't people simply *respect* each other's differences? Too simple a concept, I suppose.

This is an interesting thread. I'm a firm believer that no one *really* knows what he/she would do in a situation until it happens.

I saw a tatoo recently. It says "Only God can judge me".

I hope the situation for these two people works out. It can, *if* they work together and stay focused on what's important; the child.
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Well said.

I just wanted to say even though I'm against it, I would never judge someone on their decicion. I have had a two close friends and a family member who have gone through it and I still love them the same and I respect their decision.

Oily, I've met Amazon she is a really nice girl. Shouldn't judge people especially if you don't even know them.
 
Hey!! How do you know he's not the next Valentino Rossi? EH?! ;-)

ps. if he does end up out there, get him a Velocity leather suit. they are 100% legit man!

peace,
 
The thing about the abortion debate, is that those who have a dog in the race should get to make the choice. Each person, when placed in that situation, must come to their own conclusion as to how they'll act. In our society we have the freedom to make that choice.

I don't like abortion, myself, but I also never foresee having to get one, myself. That removes me from the debate.
 
This is not just a pregnancy thing. This attitude is widespread amongst our younger generation in regards to any and all things that require responsibility and accountability.

They want to be able to take the easy way out as soon as **** gets hard.......whether it is an accidental pregnancy, a marriage that is getting tough or is more than they bargained for, a job that they can't handle or don't want to put in the time and effort at, a legal problem that they created for themselves and now don't want to be held accountable for....the list goes on.

When it comes to abortion, I guess I have a personal opinion that is based on extra-ordinary circumstances. It took years and tons of Dr's visits, trials and tribulations, pain and heatache, for my wife and I to finally have a child, all the while we were watching others around us throw the unwanted ones in the trash........for dumb selfish reasons like a baby right now might interfere with their idea of fun and what they personally thought they deserved at the time. ( Irony is that these people probably wouldn't be the type of parents that any child should be forced to have anyways). It was heartbraking and angering......My family and my legacy are most precious things in my life now. The rest is just stuff.
 
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omnivore said:
This is not just a pregnancy thing. This attitude is widespread amongst our younger generation in regards to any and all things that require responsibility and accountability.

They want to be able to take the easy way out as soon as **** gets hard.......whether it is an accidental pregnancy, a marriage that is getting tough or is more than they bargained for, a job that they can't handle or don't want to put in the time and effort at, a legal problem that they created for themselves and now don't want to be held accountable for....the list goes on.

When it comes to abortion, I guess I have a personal opinion that is based on extra-ordinary circumstances. It took years and tons of Dr's visits, trials and tribulations, pain and heatache, for my wife and I to finally have a child, all the while we were watching others around us throw the unwanted ones in the trash........for dumb selfish reasons like a baby right now might interfere with their idea of fun and what they personally thought they deserved at the time. ( Irony is that these people probably wouldn't be the type of parents that any child should be forced to have anyways). It was heartbraking and angering......My family and my legacy are most precious things in my life now. The rest is just stuff.
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Life isn't fair.

The reasons may seem dumb and selfish to you, it may seem irresponsible to you but that is only because you are who you are. You clearly wanted a child and had to try very hard to make that happen so I have no doubt that you'd cherish what you have. Other people clearly don't want children (i count myself among these people), they just have different priorities and objectives in life. For me... it's all about her.. just one girl.. one girl that i'll convince to take a chance on me and i'll spend the rest of my life trying to convince her it was the right choice. When i think about family, i really just think about her... the idea of my own legacy or the continuation of my bloodlines doesn't stir any emotional response. My reasons for not wanting children are not entirely personal and selfish either, there are external reasons as well.

One could make an argument that bringing an unwanted child into the world to parent's who won't love it is irresponsible and dumb. One could also argue that a mother could give up the child for adoption to help families that struggle to have a child of their own.. also a valid argument. But... life isn't fair. It seems to me that the people that are most likely to reproduce are the ones that mostly likely should not.
 
AdRath said:
Supporting the birthing of a child to parents that don't want it or are unable to properly care for it (anti-abortion) has been made here or at the very least implied.
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Dont forget for those who can't abort there are other options..... I dated a guy a couple years ago who his 'mom' was really his aunt. Hes real mom was too young and couldnt abort and it worked out that her sister was trying to have kids and couldnt.

Petraeus said:
The father DOEs get a say, its at the very momment before your d!ck enters her vag
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AMEN!!!!

rafiki911 said:
Minor eh...ok if you say so. Tell that to a woman that has just had her insides scraped and almost dies a week after because not all the "pieces" were taken out and they get infected. Not me by the way, I would never abort a baby but someone close to me.

And this is just a clump of cells like a tumor??? Just look up what a 3 month fetus should look like.
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Oh god a friend of mine got pregnant (docs told her she couldnt have kids and then chewed her out for not using birthcontrol) but she found out at the three month mark. Its possible to abort but the proceedure is too nasty....

caboose483 said:
If there are complications during child birth would you want the medical professionals 40 feet down the hall or perhaps even in the room with you? or would you prefer to have to call 911, wait for an ambulance to arrive then endure the subsequent drive to the hospital?

Being relaxed at home won't help you if you're bleeding out.....

If your intent is to ignore the medical advances made in the last 100 years and the effect they've had on deaths during child birth.. then thats a risk you take. You reap what you sow.
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I plan to be at home.... with a good midwife. Unless theres issues during the pregnancy.

rafiki911 said:
Well said.

I just wanted to say even though I'm against it, I would never judge someone on their decicion. I have had a two close friends and a family member who have gone through it and I still love them the same and I respect their decision.

Oily, I've met Amazon she is a really nice girl. Shouldn't judge people especially if you don't even know them.
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My decision to not abort is mine. Your welcome to your decision and I will still hold all the respect I had of you prior. I just ask that you do it safely or I will help you look at options.

omnivore said:
When it comes to abortion, I guess I have a personal opinion that is based on extra-ordinary circumstances. It took years and tons of Dr's visits, trials and tribulations, pain and heatache, for my wife and I to finally have a child, all the while we were watching others around us throw the unwanted ones in the trash........for dumb selfish reasons like a baby right now might interfere with their idea of fun and what they personally thought they deserved at the time. ( Irony is that these people probably wouldn't be the type of parents that any child should be forced to have anyways). It was heartbraking and angering......My family and my legacy are most precious things in my life now. The rest is just stuff.
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This is why adoption is fully an option in my mind... Also surrogate. I would love to be pregnant but cant care for a child right now.... I would be more than happy to help a family out.
 
caboose483 said:
Life isn't fair.

The reasons may seem dumb and selfish to you, it may seem irresponsible to you but that is only because you are who you are. You clearly wanted a child and had to try very hard to make that happen so I have no doubt that you'd cherish what you have. Other people clearly don't want children (i count myself among these people), they just have different priorities and objectives in life. For me... it's all about her.. just one girl.. one girl that i'll convince to take a chance on me and i'll spend the rest of my life trying to convince her it was the right choice. When i think about family, i really just think about her... the idea of my own legacy or the continuation of my bloodlines doesn't stir any emotional response. My reasons for not wanting children are not entirely personal and selfish either, there are external reasons as well.

One could make an argument that bringing an unwanted child into the world to parent's who won't love it is irresponsible and dumb. One could also argue that a mother could give up the child for adoption to help families that struggle to have a child of their own.. also a valid argument. But... life isn't fair. It seems to me that the people that are most likely to reproduce are the ones that mostly likely should not.
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I completely agree, nice to see at least one person in this thread isn't crazy.
 
Since the thread is still going...

A documentary called Freakonomics by Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner basically attributed the ever decreasing crime rate (in the US) starting in 91' to the Roe V. Wade decision in 73'. Since most criminals according to them are 18-24 year old males, 1991 is the year that should have shown (and did) the initial decrease. They wrote that aborting unwanted births led to less neglected children; leading to less environmentally-created criminals leading to less crime. I haven't read the study but I found the conclusion interesting,

I do not think men can have a say in the matter, and we shouldn't be able to give up responsibility unless it's mutually agreed to by both parents....just my 2...
 
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