Have attitudes changed?

[short stop]

So the complete movement of these women had to stoop to the level of one officers statement and that was the justification behind using a derogatory term in public? once again, I just feel the name could have been different with the same results/awareness.

Um, no. That' officer's attitude was similar to many out there, and that was the sentiment behind that movement. If you're unaware of such sentiment or attitude, then I'm at a loss as to how to describe it to you. I'm sorry that you're at a loss as to the movement's purpose, as it can be important to young women across the board.

 

[01cbr]

Yes, attitudes have changed, and many of them should be.

The "more civilized" times that people like to lament are also the same times that said it was ok to fire someone for being gay, or ethnic, or disabled, only a man and women could get married, and hosts of other discriminatory and racist views.

Yes, I don't live in the " its ok to lock up Japanese people times" or the "its ok to have black people go to separate schools" times, or the "indian kids get taken from their parents" times, those people were definately more civilized...

ofcourse attitudes have changed.. its called the decline of civilization and humanity... its a very sad and interesting subject.

the more human kind takes law into their own hands to provide a "just, peaceful, lawful society, the more we decline and pervert.

the roman empire was the hight point in the last decline. they thought they were the most civil and just nation in the world. in reality it was torture homesexuality , orgies , violence and debautery. they were saved by jesus

we are not too far away from reaching a far worse low point now with america leading the way.. senseless wars, pornography, drugs, alcohol, crime, single families, gay marriages ... a million people coming to see the gay parade but only 5 thousand coming to the veterans parade, sexual perversion..,, the list goes on and on

it will keep going like this until the end of days. thats the real truth

I see we have a little conflict of opinion here......

 

[stevex]

I'd offer my 2 cents, but I'd probably get flagged/banned for being racist.

 

[invictus43]

Yes..gay marriage is ruining society..not hate for gay marriage...hmmm.... I'm sure there were many Southerners talking about how abolishing slavery would ruin society..

 

[Scary]

I couldn't think of a better thread to post this vid. Yes the times have changed and this speech from 70 years ago is still applicable today:

[video=youtube;f_YcTpzqwkw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_YcTpzqwkw[/video]

 

[conundrum]

I see it all the time these days -- people seem to have a heightened sense of self-worth, to the point that they think they matter above all others, to the point of the 'good of the one' outweighing the 'good of the many'.

Typically I always try to see things from another person's perspective/shoes, almost to a fault at times. I can't count the number of times I've held doors for people or let someone merge in front of me (just by not accelerating to block them) and people always seem perplexed by this. Meanwhile, I've had doors slammed in my face while I am trying to carry 4-6 bags of groceries into my condo, or went to let a car merge in only to watch it speed 500m past the end of a lane to merge in from the shoulder, causing everyone behind to come to a complete stop for a good 30 or more seconds.

Sadly, I don't see this getting better before it gets worse, and we are already living in a world where people are having to be told not to text while driving, and campaigns to stop people from texting and walking into things (streetcars, open manhole covers, etc) vs paying attention both for themselves and the sake of others. It also irks me that there is more media coverage these days on things like 'will Victoria Beckham have child 5' and 'what did Kim Kardashian wear today' vs a new mars rover landing, or other events that actually benefit/advance society and/or the human race (but I digress).

 

[awyala]

Yes, attitudes have changed, and many of them should be.

The "more civilized" times that people like to lament are also the same times that said it was ok to fire someone for being gay, or ethnic, or disabled, only a man and women could get married, and hosts of other discriminatory and racist views.

Yes, I don't live in the " its ok to lock up Japanese people times" or the "its ok to have black people go to separate schools" times, or the "indian kids get taken from their parents" times, those people were definately more civilized...

Most of these "civilized" tolerances you describe are merely indulgences and allowances of a society at the peak of its power. And these indulgences are also not the very principles or foundations on which they gained their power. This society has risen to power on the backs of brutal exploitation, theft, racism, intolerance, violence and strategic wars to propel itself to the top of the heap. Once there it can afford to spread a little of the booty (internally of course - not toward those they currently exploit to maintain dominance).

This society has not reached a civilized state...it is merely enjoying the fruits of being at the top. No single empire or state in it's rise to power has employed any measure of the "civilized" qualities you mentioned! Though they may exist, they are not policy to employ the handicapped (or the non productive). The rise of a civilization does not cater to the old, the foreign, the time wasters, the unproductive, or those unable to contribute. If you can't have children or would rather not contribute to the population, then you fade away as you are passed by others in the society. If you are disabled, then you receive less, and that is your lot in life. If you are ethnic, you are exploited as a foreigner not entitled to the same rewards, because you have not paid your (local) dues.

Every wave of immigrant to the US was treated badly as it rose to power, not to mention the blacks and the Natives. Homosexuality wasn't even an issue. There was no time for it! The handicapped sat on the sidelines while the most productive members of society led the rise in power. There is no time to coddle and tolerate every fringe element of society in these times.

But those times are over, and everyone gets to share as long as they swear some cheap oath. Every race is "tolerated" in a vain attempt to cover a disgusting past! Any form of vice is tolerated because it is simply too daunting a task to stop it from happening (referring to the collapse of prohibition and the coming collapse of the "war on drugs"). Reproduction and productivity are not the mantras of this time, rather fun and self pleasure are. This is the time to bask in the glory of a "civilization" forged and bestowed upon us by a cruel ancestry. We can neither face that past honestly, nor free ourselves from the seduction of enjoying the rewards of it. We cannot give this "civilization" back to the Blacks, Natives, or ethnics...so we cover it with a false sense of morality...this new liberalism, this new pluralism, which only extends within the borders of "Rome", and not to the "savages" because it is false morality and it doesn't apply elsewhere, it cannot. Life cannot be about tolerating everything, that is an indulgence. Certain principles are diametrically opposed...

That is why being scornful of "discrimination" is an interesting coming from a lawyer...whose very job is to discriminate! The law IS discrimination! Law by its nature is the antithesis of tolerance!

Both "tolerance" and "discrimination" are buzz words and relative. They have lost the nuances and are applied universally. While society, through time, and over regions applies both those words to varrying degrees. Tolerating homosexuality and gay marriage is not a sign of moral, civilized, or enlightened times! It is merely a shade of "tolerance / discrimination" apart from the very conduct utilized to acquire power. And these new ethics are even exploited to "discriminate" against other cultures and trigger wars of resource acquisition in the name of "universal human rights"...once again, we change our views to suite our motives, and we easily cast aside the debt we owe to those we have wronged against, painting ourselves as morally above those we conquer.

I am more "civilized" for allowing gay marriage, therefore I can urge the security council to act against your savage nation. I am more "civilized" because I am an evolved species of humanity and therefore I can cleanse my society of the weaker races. I am more "civilized" because I believe in God, and you are a savage. I am more "civilized" because I am white in the image of God, and you are Black. I am more "civilized" because I have a new godless code of ethics, a higher humanist morality, and you are a backward medieval fanatic.

If anything we are no more moral or ethical than we ever were. Homosexuality, incest, various forms of promiscuity and vice were and have always been tolerated and encouraged at the height of various empires and "civilizations". We all go through cycles, we all get to the top and think we are untouchable, infallible and righteous. Nor are we so, and nor was our rise to this power.

We are and will always be the same in the over all grand scheme of things. We are not better off as a mass of people, one better than the next state or culture, however within us, there are some individuals who are better than others, from every society these people exist and have existed. But we are not "civilized" here, the way we would like to think ourselves to be.

 

[Major]

Most of these "civilized" tolerances you describe are merely indulgences and allowances of a society at the peak of its power.

...

But we are not "civilized" here, the way we would like to think ourselves to be.

Wow, some issues here.

I thought this thread was about saying please and thank-you. Some people think too much.

Deeds, not words.

 

[SunnY S]

No surprise to anybody who reads the bible....

It says that in the last days, critical times hard to deal with would be here.


.

 

[invictus43]

No surprise to anybody who reads the bible....

It says that in the last days, critical times hard to deal with would be here.


.

I'm sure I saw some locusts in my back yard..

 

[nobbie48]

Notice the concerned faces in the good old days?

 

[Red695]

Notice the concerned faces in the good old days?

touché

 

[invictus43]

 

[awyala]

So let's see, an image of a KKK hanging, and an image of Christians in the arena sacrificed to lions etc. About 1800 years apart. No decernable change in morality. But now all of a sudden we ae civilized? Now we are incapable of backsliding? Now we have elevated to a higher plane of ethics? Or is this just a blip of momentary euphoria?

Don't we employ torture, assassinations, secret black prisons? Didn't we nuke 140,000 innocent people to prove a point? When exatcly did we become so ethical to think we are better than others or even our own (as taught in Anglo history) direct line of ancestry (Greeks -> Romans -> Renaissance Europe -> British -> North American Colonies -> Canada / US history). It seems we haven't done much evolving at all, just technologically progressed...which is often confused with moral progression in general.

 

[OpenGambit]

Um, no. That' officer's attitude was similar to many out there, and that was the sentiment behind that movement. If you're unaware of such sentiment or attitude, then I'm at a loss as to how to describe it to you. I'm sorry that you're at a loss as to the movement's purpose, as it can be important to young women across the board.

his attitude is just the same as the people that complained about the people in the civil rights movement for being "uppity".
He even brought in the "think of the children"!

 

[Red695]

So let's see, an image of a KKK hanging, and an image of Christians in the arena sacrificed to lions etc. About 1800 years apart. No decernable change in morality. But now all of a sudden we ae civilized? Now we are incapable of backsliding? Now we have elevated to a higher plane of ethics? Or is this just a blip of momentary euphoria?

Don't we employ torture, assassinations, secret black prisons? Didn't we nuke 140,000 innocent people to prove a point? When exatcly did we become so ethical to think we are better than others or even our own (as taught in Anglo history) direct line of ancestry (Greeks -> Romans -> Renaissance Europe -> British -> North American Colonies -> Canada / US history). It seems we haven't done much evolving at all, just technologically progressed...which is often confused with moral progression in general.

I took the point of the pic of hangings as an argument against saying that civilization is worse these days. Not that it is better now or was worse in the past, but just that humanity has always had a dose of evil. The only thing to change is what evil is more accepted than others.

 

[Redrock]

Um, no. That' officer's attitude was similar to many out there, and that was the sentiment behind that movement. If you're unaware of such sentiment or attitude, then I'm at a loss as to how to describe it to you. I'm sorry that you're at a loss as to the movement's purpose, as it can be important to young women across the board.

once again, you seem to have a hard time wrapping your head around the fact that my issues was never with the purpose but the "name" of the rally. There has been a million protests/rallies to promote equality for different races and yet none of them had to use such foul language to get their point across.

I dont know about your childhood or up bringing but I was never subjected to such language at a young age. I never knew what racism was, what a slut was or a f*g because all people were the same to me, just different names...thats the beautiful thing about being a kid, pure and innocent. I feel by that statement or word being tossed openly into public is just another way to tarnish the minds of youth.

We have a difference in opinions, your comfortable with the term printed for all to see, young or old you dont care because it was for a good cause.
Would this have been accepted in the past? probably not....but once again confirming "attitudes have changed"

 

[OpenGambit]

once again, you seem to have a hard time wrapping your head around the fact that my issues was never with the purpose but the "name" of the rally. There has been a million protests/rallies to promote equality for different races and yet none of them had to use such foul language to get their point across.

I dont know about your childhood or up bringing but I was never subjected to such language at a young age. I never knew what racism was, what a slut was or a f*g because all people were the same to me, just different names...thats the beautiful thing about being a kid, pure and innocent. I feel by that statement or word being tossed openly into public is just another way to tarnish the minds of youth.

We have a difference in opinions, your comfortable with the term printed for all to see, young or old you dont care because it was for a good cause.
Would this have been accepted in the past? probably not....but once again confirming "attitudes have changed"

I am glad attitudes have changed, because instead of teaching a young girl a good lesson, you decided to perpetuate the wrong by ignoring it.

You could have told the 11 year old that she is growing up in a world where she can be subjected to violence because she is simply a girl, and that there are people out there that will try to blame her for it, and that its not her fault, and that these people are trying to make the world a fairer, safer and better place for HER.

But instead you decided to complain about OMG They used the word slut.

I am glad my parents were nothing like you. I knew about Tiananmen square when I was 7, my dad didn't worry about OMG some people are saying bad words, or showing bad pictures, and took me to the rallys anyway, and I learnt a lot, and what I learnt had nothing to do with bad words or people getting run over with tanks.

This sort of pretending to be proper as a proxy for real morality is disgusting and should be eradicated.
Anyone with a brain realizes that the use of the word slut was far less worthy of condemnation ( if any ), than the sentiment that the whole movement was against.

 

[NEED FASTER]

All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten

by Robert FulghumMost of what I really need
To know about how to live
And what to do and how to be
I learned in kindergarten.
Wisdom was not at the top
Of the graduate school mountain,
But there in the sandpile at Sunday school.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life -
Learn some and think some
And draw and paint and sing and dance
And play and work everyday some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world,
Watch out for traffic,
Hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder.​

​

 

[short stop]

once again, you seem to have a hard time wrapping your head around the fact that my issues was never with the purpose but the "name" of the rally. There has been a million protests/rallies to promote equality for different races and yet none of them had to use such foul language to get their point across.

I dont know about your childhood or up bringing but I was never subjected to such language at a young age. I never knew what racism was, what a slut was or a f*g because all people were the same to me, just different names...thats the beautiful thing about being a kid, pure and innocent. I feel by that statement or word being tossed openly into public is just another way to tarnish the minds of youth.

We have a difference in opinions, your comfortable with the term printed for all to see, young or old you dont care because it was for a good cause.
Would this have been accepted in the past? probably not....but once again confirming "attitudes have changed"

I don't have a hard time wrapping my mind around anything. You don't seem to understand *why* that particular word was used for this purpose. It was taking the very language that the officer used and throwing it back in the faces of those who would blame women for being assaulted. And I don't know about you, but I grew up with plenty of older sisters so I heard a *lot* of nasty language around my household. Somehow, I still grew up a polite, courteous, and decent citizen.

OpenGambit has a far more articulate response, so I won't go much further. All I have to say is that I have bigger worries for this world and for my children's future than the off-chance that they'd read the word "slut" somewhere.