Handgun opinions

[Onagoth]

Passed my rPAL and nrPAL.

Seriously contemplating getting a handgun. Not comfortable getting dinged for wrong storage and getting a criminal record. Might stick with a rifle

Nothing to worry about...if you're storing it, keep a trigger lock on it in a locked hard case and you're good to go. No one is going to randomly show up to search your house....and if they do, tell them to come back with a warrant. (if they're serious, show up at the warrant request and submit grounds to have the request quashed....its easy enough and there is guidance available from the CSSA)

Transportation is easy as well....double locked is the rule of thumb (trigger locked inside a locked container). Stay on a reasonably direct route as per the ATT and you'll be fine. Remember, police need probable cause to search a vehicle, don't do/say anything suspicious, and there's nothing to worry about

 

[FiReSTaRT]

You won't get a temp ATT to take the guns to your buddies house unless he's also an RPAL holder and you're lending him the firearms.

Let's say that he is an rPAL holder.. Could I get a temp ATT so I can "loan" my target firearm to him for as long as it takes to enjoy a couple of grilled steaks before taking it back to my place of residence? Because such a thing wouldn't be regular (most of the time I'd just go to the local range), I might go with him to his range 2-3 times a year, so getting the temp ATT's wouldn't be that much of an issue.

 

[mmmnaked]

Let's say that he is an rPAL holder.. Could I get a temp ATT so I can "loan" my target firearm to him for as long as it takes to enjoy a couple of grilled steaks before taking it back to my place of residence? Because such a thing wouldn't be regular (most of the time I'd just go to the local range), I might go with him to his range 2-3 times a year, so getting the temp ATT's wouldn't be that much of an issue.

As already stated, if your friend is on your 'reasonable' route to the range you don't need a special ATT to stop there. You can also stop for gas, or to buy a drink, or to eat at a restaurant. You simply have to ensure the car is locked after you get out.

But none of that matters. Because a cop really can't nail you on a technicality as long as you're abiding by transport laws (locked, unloaded, cased, etc). How can they possibly prove where you're going or which route you just took? Like I said, memorize a few different ranges in Ontario and you're golden.

 

[promac]

Just keep the restricteds trigger/cable locked when not in use. If it becomes habit, you're unlikely to fail offside when transporting or worrying if your safe is a safe or just a cabinet.

The law states "reasonably direct route, in all the circumstances". IMO, reasonably direct is not direct, but more direct than not. If you're going to the range with a friend and need to pick him/her up, what is reasonable? Is it reasonable to travel half way to the range to pickup friend, then go back home to pickup firearm, then go to range or pick up friend on the way? Would a judge agree? I would think it's most reasonable to pickup your friend on the way. You could argue that you're not allowed to pickup a friend or stop over for dinner. So what are the circumstances where a reasonable deviation is permitted? Oh, it says all the circumstances. Perhaps that's why it's reasonable to deviate for gas, food, bathroom, accommodations when traveling long distances. On the flip side, if you're going to your friend's cottage for the weekend and there is no range in or around that area and have no plans to visit a range or you're going to the cottage from the range, then there is no direct connection or link to or from a range and you're likely to be offside. The primary destination and purpose of your trip needs to be going to/from the range. That's my opinion. I'm no expert or lawyer, though, so it's better to be conservative.

As already stated, if your friend is on your 'reasonable' route to the range you don't need a special ATT to stop there. You can also stop for gas, or to buy a drink, or to eat at a restaurant. You simply have to ensure the car is locked after you get out.

But none of that matters. Because a cop really can't nail you on a technicality as long as you're abiding by transport laws (locked, unloaded, cased, etc). How can they possibly prove where you're going or which route you just took? Like I said, memorize a few different ranges in Ontario and you're golden.

You will not get a one time or short term ATT to go to a friends house. Firearms must remain locked in the vehicle and out of sight until you get to the range or back home.

 

[RockerGuy]

Nothing to worry about...if you're storing it, keep a trigger lock on it in a locked hard case and you're good to go. No one is going to randomly show up to search your house....and if they do, tell them to come back with a warrant. (if they're serious, show up at the warrant request and submit grounds to have the request quashed....its easy enough and there is guidance available from the CSSA)

Transportation is easy as well....double locked is the rule of thumb (trigger locked inside a locked container). Stay on a reasonably direct route as per the ATT and you'll be fine. Remember, police need probable cause to search a vehicle, don't do/say anything suspicious, and there's nothing to worry about

I get concerned when things are at the descretion of the officer. But I'll take your advice into consideration

 

[mmmnaked]

You will not get a one time or short term ATT to go to a friends house. Firearms must remain locked in the vehicle and out of sight until you get to the range or back home.

I'm fairly sure you can, if you're lending your friend a firearm for safe-keeping lets say. Obviously your friend has to be licenced as well.

 

[D23]

I was under the impression that any deviation from route for a firearm that falls under the restricted class had to be approved by RCMP. IE: Contact them and get the proper paperwork to transport it to your friends house if you are loaning it to him. Otherwise you meet that friend at your club and give it to him/her there. Same as picking up a friend to go to the range.

The police can say "Your friend could meet you at the club. You shouldn't have deviated from your route"....

Not sure about any of this since I haven't gone anywhere outside of my home -> range route but I would like to go shoot at another club this fall that is 350 KM from home and will be requesting the permit to do so.

When in doubt about any of this your best bet is to contact the RCMP for clarification.

 

[Onagoth]

I get concerned when things are at the descretion of the officer. But I'll take your advice into consideration

You're overthinking it IMO.....I've been all over the province with my handguns...never once been pulled over. And I certainly wouldn't be worried if I was, I know my rights and I know the laws.

 

[Onagoth]

I'm fairly sure you can, if you're lending your friend a firearm for safe-keeping lets say. Obviously your friend has to be licenced as well.

IIRC, you can't just lend a restricted to a friend, it has to go through the CFO. I know you can store restricteds at a friends place, even if they don't have their RPALs (they can't have access to the trigger locks though).

It's possible to have the CFO change the storage address of a restricted to your friends place, and it is possible for both of you to have an ATT for that same gun (I've known this to happen with a friend of mine). But then the gun isn't at your house anymore, its permanently at your friends house until you reverse it.

 

[promac]

When in doubt about any of this your best bet is to contact the RCMP for clarification.

Contact a firearms lawyer. CFC (RCMP) and CFO will only give you their interpretation of the law, which may not be correct. That being said, if you're ever pull over or something goes wrong along the way, a police officer will apply his/her interpretation of the law. As a result, it may cost you 10's of thousands convincing a judge the officer's interpretation was incorrect. They are often wrong. So it may be worthwhile to keep your head down and stick to an absolute direct route with no stops along the way for any reason, because the law makers are too stupid and illiterate to convey the true intent of the law.

 

[promac]

IIRC, you can't just lend a restricted to a friend, it has to go through the CFO. I know you can store restricteds at a friends place, even if they don't have their RPALs (they can't have access to the trigger locks though).

It's possible to have the CFO change the storage address of a restricted to your friends place, and it is possible for both of you to have an ATT for that same gun (I've known this to happen with a friend of mine). But then the gun isn't at your house anymore, its permanently at your friends house until you reverse it.

I believe you are correct, but I don't see this being practical or possible, just to attend a BBQ at a friends house. While I don't think stopping on the way home is violating the law, I believe a police officer would and you'd be charged, even though the charges probably wouldn't stick. Nonetheless, the hassle and expense could be huge.

 

[RockerGuy]

You're overthinking it IMO.....I've been all over the province with my handguns...never once been pulled over. And I certainly wouldn't be worried if I was, I know my rights and I know the laws.

I see.
Another question, the ATT we are talking about, how is that issued? Is that faxed when u contact the RCMP? Lets say I have the day off and decided to go shooting for the day, do I have to wait for the ATT to be faxed? Wouldn't that take a few hours? By the time I receive it, the day might be over.

 

[Dohhh]

I see.
Another question, the ATT we are talking about, how is that issued? Is that faxed when u contact the RCMP? Lets say I have the day off and decided to go shooting for the day, do I have to wait for the ATT to be faxed? Wouldn't that take a few hours? By the time I receive it, the day might be over.

When you join a shooting range they'll apply for your ATT for you. Once you get it you can take your guns to any gun range any time. Its good for up to 5 years, depending on the range. Also once you have an att for a restricted you dont need to keep getting a new one every time you buy another restricted gun, the att covers current and future restricted firearms you may own

 

[D23]

You get an ATT issued from your club/range (through them from RCMP). You have to hold a valid membership there and wait for it to arrive. It's good for three to five years.

The RCMP issues your PAL/RPAL ID and registration papers for your firearms.

EDIT: Dohhh beat me to it...

 

[D23]

Contact a firearms lawyer. CFC (RCMP) and CFO will only give you their interpretation of the law, which may not be correct.

Honestly, either way, the law is open to interpretation by the officer. Regardless of who you contact you may have to go to court to sort it out.

It's not like you can tell some ignorant (of the law) cop you talked to a lawyer and the cop will just go away.

You make it sound like you can wave a magic lawyer wand at him/her and it's going to solve all issues that can come up.

Just plan to go directly to and from your club the most direct way you can. Don't **** around and keep everything locked up as it's required to be and out of sight. that way, the only time they would see it is if you were in an accident.

If you are going to shoot then shoot responsibly. Don't be a ****ing retard about it if are going to go to a range.

Go to the range. Shoot. Go home.

Canada is anal enough without more reasons to restrict us even further.

 

[Dohhh]

Honestly, either way, the law is open to interpretation by the officer. Regardless of who you contact you may have to go to court to sort it out.

It's not like you can tell some ignorant (of the law) cop you talked to a lawyer and the cop will just go away.

You make it sound like you can wave a magic lawyer wand at him/her and it's going to solve all issues that can come up.

Just plan to go directly to and from your club the most direct way you can. Don't **** around and keep everything locked up as it's required to be and out of sight. that way, the only time they would see it is if you were in an accident.

If a cop doesnt know the law and wrongfully charges you then go after them to recover all court costs. This way maybe some cops will use their head next time

 

[D23]

Yea, one down, all the rest to go....

 

[promac]

It's not like you can tell some ignorant (of the law) cop you talked to a lawyer and the cop will just go away.

You make it sound like you can wave a magic lawyer wand at him/her and it's going to solve all issues that can come up.

I'm just saying that the lawyer will give you the best legal advice. Law enforcement, instructors and others are going to give you the most conservative advice which will be the most restrictive. Personally, in all the years I've been shooting, I've never had to deviate, other than stopping for gas. I suppose I deviate too, if I go to the bathroom. Guests always meet me at the range or my home. After shooting, i like to change my cloths and shower, before doing anything else.

 

[RockerGuy]

When you join a shooting range they'll apply for your ATT for you. Once you get it you can take your guns to any gun range any time. Its good for up to 5 years, depending on the range. Also once you have an att for a restricted you dont need to keep getting a new one every time you buy another restricted gun, the att covers current and future restricted firearms you may own

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought an ATT is written for a designated range

 

[Onagoth]

One of these days I'm going to seek a LTATT without doing it through a club. I see nowhere in the law where club membership is required and I believe I can challenge the CFO in court on this....and win.