Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

[GreyGhost]

Just wondering has anyone looked into or has used this service offered by the Government?

Canada Greener Homes Loan

natural-resources.canada.ca

Sort of. I was approved for the Greener Homes program (which took a year) but then I didn't submit an audit within a year so they kicked me out. The HERS program has replaced the Greener Homes program. It is the same plus a little bit more except it is subcontracted to Enbridge instead of a direct federal program. Apparently there is no downside to HERS vs staying in the GH so I let myself get punted.

Now, as I expected, most (all?) HVAC contractors know about this and used it as a chance to screw consumers. A heat pump has three parts different than an A/C. It should cost slightly more. When JT offered up 5K, the heat pump should have been cheaper than the A/C. HVAC contractors added the 5K to the heat pump estimates so they keep it all and heat pump costs a lot more than A/C. Entirely the opposite of the intended objective (go figure, a poorly thought through federal program enriching dbags, who would have thought that would happen with this government).

If I do it, I will do solar. I have contacts that can get me a very good price. If I install myself (which is a pita on my steep roof). Using the interest free loan, my monthly bills will be slightly lower (power savings exceeds loan payment) for a decade until loan is cleared. I should save close to 40K over the lifetime of the panels. If you have to pay to install, it is really hard to justify economically as the installers charge much of what you would save and time value of money more than wipes out economic advantage.

 

[mimico_polak]

Sort of. I was approved for the Greener Homes program (which took a year) but then I didn't submit an audit within a year so they kicked me out. The HERS program has replaced the Greener Homes program. It is the same plus a little bit more except it is subcontracted to Enbridge instead of a direct federal program. Apparently there is no downside to HERS vs staying in the GH so I let myself get punted.

Now, as I expected, most (all?) HVAC contractors know about this and used it as a chance to screw consumers. A heat pump has three parts different than an A/C. It should cost slightly more. When JT offered up 5K, the heat pump should have been cheaper than the A/C. HVAC contractors added the 5K to the heat pump estimates so they keep it all and heat pump costs a lot more than A/C. Entirely the opposite of the intended objective (go figure, a poorly thought through federal program enriching dbags, who would have thought that would happen with this government).

If I do it, I will do solar. I have contacts that can get me a very good price. If I install myself (which is a pita on my steep roof). Using the interest free loan, my monthly bills will be slightly lower (power savings exceeds loan payment) for a decade until loan is cleared. I should save close to 40K over the lifetime of the panels. If you have to pay to install, it is really hard to justify economically as the installers charge much of what you would save and time value of money more than wipes out economic advantage.

funny How that happens. EVs, heat pumps, solar, and everything that gets a rebate of X…goes up a magnitude of X…

Interesting.

 

[Jampy00]

Sort of. I was approved for the Greener Homes program (which took a year) but then I didn't submit an audit within a year so they kicked me out. The HERS program has replaced the Greener Homes program. It is the same plus a little bit more except it is subcontracted to Enbridge instead of a direct federal program. Apparently there is no downside to HERS vs staying in the GH so I let myself get punted.

Now, as I expected, most (all?) HVAC contractors know about this and used it as a chance to screw consumers. A heat pump has three parts different than an A/C. It should cost slightly more. When JT offered up 5K, the heat pump should have been cheaper than the A/C. HVAC contractors added the 5K to the heat pump estimates so they keep it all and heat pump costs a lot more than A/C. Entirely the opposite of the intended objective (go figure, a poorly thought through federal program enriching dbags, who would have thought that would happen with this government).

If I do it, I will do solar. I have contacts that can get me a very good price. If I install myself (which is a pita on my steep roof). Using the interest free loan, my monthly bills will be slightly lower (power savings exceeds loan payment) for a decade until loan is cleared. I should save close to 40K over the lifetime of the panels. If you have to pay to install, it is really hard to justify economically as the installers charge much of what you would save and time value of money more than wipes out economic advantage.

I'm getting the first test done on Jan 16 as I am looking to replace windows and doors in the new place (most are original, 1986)
I trust my installer. Small, local company. Being approved would mean doing them all at once versus over the next 10 years...
So the payment does not sting that much...

 

[GreyGhost]

funny How that happens. EVs, heat pumps, solar, and everything that gets a rebate of X…goes up a magnitude of X…

Interesting.

Most things are priced by ability to pay. Your ability to pay is not substantially different with these programs so some level of business grabs them as extra profit.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'm getting the first test done on Jan 16 as I am looking to replace windows and doors in the new place (most are original, 1986)
I trust my installer. Small, local company. Being approved would mean doing them all at once versus over the next 10 years...
So the payment does not sting that much...

Windows are a pretty crappy ROI in the program (125 or 250 per rough opening depending on the energy rating of the new windows). Now, if you are doing them anyway, I don't see a down side. Depending on window design, the program may barely cover the tax.

Have you enrolled in the program already? If you get the test before you are enrolled, you are SOL.

 

[mimico_polak]

I'm getting the first test done on Jan 16 as I am looking to replace windows and doors in the new place (most are original, 1986)
I trust my installer. Small, local company. Being approved would mean doing them all at once versus over the next 10 years...
So the payment does not sting that much...

I spoke with my installer (the guy I recommended to you), and he basically said 'the requirements for the rebate / grant are such that you pay way more for the windows that it doesn't actually save you any money'.

Apparently the windows that qualify are considerably more expensive than normal windows that don't qualify for the grant...so even after the rebate, you get screwed and never actually save any money compared to just doing it.

But YMMV. Let us know.

 

[GreyGhost]

I spoke with my installed (the guy I recommended to you), and he basically said 'the requirements for the rebate / grant are such that you pay way more for the windows that it doesn't actually save you any money'.

Apparently the windows that qualify are considerably more expensive than normal windows that don't qualify for the grant...so even after the rebate, you get screwed and never actually save any money compared to just doing it.

But YMMV. Let us know.

So again, more money lit on fire for minimal benefit. Awesome. Glad this carbon tax is working. /s

 

[Jampy00]

Windows are a pretty crappy ROI in the program (125 or 250 per rough opening depending on the energy rating of the new windows). Now, if you are doing them anyway, I don't see a down side. Depending on window design, the program may barely cover the tax.

Have you enrolled in the program already? If you get the test before you are enrolled, you are SOL.

Eligibility
All loan applicants
There are some eligibility requirements to meet before applying for the loan:

You must be a Canadian citizen, permanent resident, or non-permanent resident who is legally authorized to work in Canada
You must own the home and it must be your primary residence
You have a pre-retrofit evaluation and have not yet had a post-retrofit evaluation
Your pre-retrofit evaluation was completed on or after April 1, 2020

I'm getting the pre-retrofit evaluation, which need to be completed before you apply.

 

[Jampy00]

I spoke with my installer (the guy I recommended to you), and he basically said 'the requirements for the rebate / grant are such that you pay way more for the windows that it doesn't actually save you any money'.

Apparently the windows that qualify are considerably more expensive than normal windows that don't qualify for the grant...so even after the rebate, you get screwed and never actually save any money compared to just doing it.

But YMMV. Let us know.

Not concerned about the rebate/grant it is a joke, I am going for the loan.
Might as well borrow our tax dollars... LOL

Loan details
Maximum: $40,000
Minimum: $5,000
Repayment term: 10 years, interest-free
Loan type: Unsecured personal loan on approved credit

 

[GreyGhost]

Eligibility
All loan applicants
There are some eligibility requirements to meet before applying for the loan:

You must be a Canadian citizen, permanent resident, or non-permanent resident who is legally authorized to work in Canada
You must own the home and it must be your primary residence
You have a pre-retrofit evaluation and have not yet had a post-retrofit evaluation
Your pre-retrofit evaluation was completed on or after April 1, 2020

I'm getting the pre-retrofit evaluation, which need to be completed before you apply.

Interesting. They changed it. Before you had to be approved before the first test. Thanks for the update.

 

[GreyGhost]

Not concerned about the rebate/grant it is a joke, I am going for the loan.
Might as well borrow our tax dollars... LOL

Loan details
Maximum: $40,000
Minimum: $5,000
Repayment term: 10 years, interest-free
Loan type: Unsecured personal loan on approved credit

The important part is "The loan can help you finance eligible retrofits that are recommended by an energy advisor and that have not yet been started.". Unless you buy the expensive windows, you many not be installing an eligible retrofit. It's just numbers and your auditor/installer can help guide you and you can check the math for expensive windows with interest free loan vs normal windows with no government involvement.

 

[mimico_polak]

Not concerned about the rebate/grant it is a joke, I am going for the loan.
Might as well borrow our tax dollars... LOL

Loan details
Maximum: $40,000
Minimum: $5,000
Repayment term: 10 years, interest-free
Loan type: Unsecured personal loan on approved credit

Check the fineprint...because the 40k is only available if you do XYZ. So if your windows / insulation don't meet a certain criteria...you get zilch.

I remember going through this when I was planning my house insulation. To be available the R value had to be 20+ which was nowhere near what I was going to reach, so I would've gotten zero.

There's a lot of fine print, especially for windows.

Here we go...



The important part....'must be on NRCan's list of eligible products'.

 

[jc100]

This program should work properly and benefit everyone. The problem is when greedy pigs get their hands into the system. I don’t see it as a government issue, it’s a contractor issue and obviously not all contractors either.

 

[Jampy00]

The important part is "The loan can help you finance eligible retrofits that are recommended by an energy advisor and that have not yet been started.". Unless you buy the expensive windows, you many not be installing an eligible retrofit. It's just numbers and your auditor/installer can help guide you and you can check the math for expensive windows with interest free loan vs normal windows with no government involvement.

Yes! that is exactly what we are doing. There are a number of windows/doors that qualify. Not just the "expensive" ones.
And any energy advisor will agree that 20+ year old windows will be eligible.
Not often you get a 0% 10 year loan, while I typically pay cash for home upgrades, this was something I though was worth looking into to.

 

[Jampy00]

Check the fineprint...because the 40k is only available if you do XYZ. So if your windows / insulation don't meet a certain criteria...you get zilch.

I remember going through this when I was planning my house insulation. To be available the R value had to be 20+ which was nowhere near what I was going to reach, so I would've gotten zero.

There's a lot of fine print, especially for windows.

Here we go...

View attachment 64993

The important part....'must be on NRCan's list of eligible products'.

Actually check to ensure your installer is on the list, ours is. So much of the "fine print"" is already dealt with from them.
The interesting thing is you can be approved for the loan and the rebate. We'll see how it goes, I have faith in my installer.

 

[Jampy00]

This program should work properly and benefit everyone. The problem is when greedy pigs get their hands into the system. I don’t see it as a government issue, it’s a contractor issue and obviously not all contractors either.

100% agree with this. For windows and doors I have great installer, they are a small Canadian company and live up the street from me. They worked with me in the past and I could not be happier with the quality work they perform.

 

[oioioi]

I spoke with my installer (the guy I recommended to you), and he basically said 'the requirements for the rebate / grant are such that you pay way more for the windows that it doesn't actually save you any money'.

Apparently the windows that qualify are considerably more expensive than normal windows that don't qualify for the grant...so even after the rebate, you get screwed and never actually save any money compared to just doing it.

But YMMV. Let us know.

When I did my windows 4-5 years ago, my windows guy told me the same thing.
Only specific window are approved. By the time all the paperwork and approval is done and you pay the tax, you may save a few bucks for a cup of coffee.

We opted out of it and saved on the JT fees.

 

[Jampy00]

When I did my windows 4-5 years ago, my windows guy told me the same thing.
Only specific window are approved. By the time all the paperwork and approval is done and you pay the tax, you may save a few bucks for a cup of coffee.

We opted out of it and saved on the JT fees.

Agreed - The rebate alone program is not worth the time investment for window/doors.
But the 0% loan is what we are after and the rebate is also included. In my opinion worth it over paying out of pocket.

 

[GreyGhost]

And any energy advisor will agree that 20+ year old windows will be eligible.

Your old windows are almost immaterial. You need new windows off the list. That's all that matter. It sounds like you have that.

 

[mimico_polak]

Agreed - The rebate alone program is not worth the time investment for window/doors.
But the 0% loan is what we are after and the rebate is also included. In my opinion worth it over paying out of pocket.

100% Free money at 0% is free money at 0%.

I'd take it if I qualified. But I didn't...so I didn't.