Block/1" air space/2x3 studs/vapour barrier/drywall.
Put insulation in the 1" air space and in the stud cavities. Gives you a 4" thick wall with cheaper lumber and better insulation. It is obviously not load bearing and while being slightly less rigid than if it was tied to the block, it will be entirely acceptable.
Hmmmm... I might rethink using 2x3 for a wall that is only faced on one side. 2x3 bulge and flex way more than 2x4s -- if there's nothing on the back counteracting the tension of drywall bumping the wall and time will serve up cracks, fastener pops, and a slight horizontal bulge.
Thanks for the further input guys.
There isn't really a moisture problem @Mad Mike, at least in the typical sense, of physical water leaking in, more hydro-static type of air/moisture passing through. Unless that is what you mean.
Curious any thoughts on painting the foundation walls, no one seemed to have mentioned anything so I figure nothing to really worry about here.
Why use 2x6 studs in this case? Worse thermally and more expensive. 2x4 spaced off the wall works better and is cheaper. 24" OC makes sense in either case.
1) Thermal bridging. 2x6 won't present a thermal bridging issue as it runs up over R8.25. 2x3 will at R3, 2x4 at R5.25 might maybe in a basement.
2) Higher R value. 2x6 allow R21, plenty for a basement. 2x4 is R14 even if spaced off the wall.
3) Stronger wall. This is a one-sided wall, 2x6 offers about double the rigidity of 2x4.
For 100 linear feet of perimeter framing, would use about 75 8' studs -- at a $3 premium you're adding $225. To me it's worth the additional cost.
Done a few basements in my day, redoing a part of mine right now that I built 20 years ago using 2x3 on the perimeter. It held up, but thermal bridging and it's damage are certainly visible. I have an 8th" bow and a few screw pops. The biggest issue is the room is cold -- its 22 x 12 and way colder than the adjacent 26x20 room I finished at a later time using 2x6.
Thanks for the further input guys.
There isn't really a moisture problem @Mad Mike, at least in the typical sense, of physical water leaking in, more hydro-static type of air/moisture passing through. Unless that is what you mean.
Curious any thoughts on painting the foundation walls, no one seemed to have mentioned anything so I figure nothing to really worry about here.
1) Thermal bridging. 2x6 won't present a thermal bridging issue as it runs up over R8.25. 2x3 will at R3, 2x4 at R5.25 might maybe in a basement.
2) Higher R value. 2x6 allow R21, plenty for a basement. 2x4 is R14 even if spaced off the wall.
3) Stronger wall. This is a one-sided wall, 2x6 offers about double the rigidity of 2x4.
For 100 linear feet of perimeter framing, would use about 75 8' studs -- at a $3 premium you're adding $225. To me it's worth the additional cost.
Done a few basements in my day, redoing a part of mine right now that I built 20 years ago using 2x3 on the perimeter. It held up, but thermal bridging and it's damage are certainly visible. I have an 8th" bow and a few screw pops. The biggest issue is the room is cold -- its 22 x 12 and way colder than the adjacent 26x20 room I finished at a later time using 2x6.
2x4 spaced 2" off the wall is better thermally than 2x6. Not sure why you are stuck on 2x6. Look at a wall with a thermal camera and it's easy to find studs that make a thermal bridge. 2x4 is less rigid but on an 8' wall that's not a huge issue imo.
2x4. stood off the concrete 1/2-1" ,whatever is required to make a wall straight and plumb, since I can guarantee that block or poured wall is 'close'.
Call in the spray foam guy and he fills behind the 2x so zero bridging , done in 2hrs and you dont itch.
2x4. stood off the concrete 1/2-1" ,whatever is required to make a wall straight and plumb, since I can guarantee that block or poured wall is 'close'.
Call in the spray foam guy and he fills behind the 2x so zero bridging , done in 2hrs and you dont itch.
I have a small rental place with a 4' deep block crawl space. Cost me $3200 to have 720sq' sprayed at r20. Conventional wall blanket would have been around $1200, $800 if I did it myself.
I really don't like working in dark, dank crawl spaces, one of the rare things I contracted out.
2x4. stood off the concrete 1/2-1" ,whatever is required to make a wall straight and plumb, since I can guarantee that block or poured wall is 'close'.
Call in the spray foam guy and he fills behind the 2x so zero bridging , done in 2hrs and you dont itch.
2x4 spaced 2" off the wall is better thermally than 2x6. Not sure why you are stuck on 2x6. Look at a wall with a thermal camera and it's easy to find studs that make a thermal bridge. 2x4 is less rigid but on an 8' wall that's not a huge issue imo.
That's going to work the same as long as you you patch insulation in behind the studs and fill the 2" cavity with insulation.
You dont get much thermal bridging below grade, I doubt you could see a 2x6 thru drywall in a basement if the wall was properly insulated.
Rigidity is a bit of an issue on 2x4 24oc walls that have one face sidied. Press on the wall and it will flex. Drywall doesn't like that, I guess a horizontal furring back strap would fix that.
The whole continent is based on 16” centres saving $100 framing an entire basement perimeter makes no sense , you loose studs to attach receptacles. Drywall is unsupported, hanging stuff is harder , I don’t get it with guys and 24” centres
Maybe I'm not understanding...but why is there such a difference in the brick reacting to insulation being rigid insulation or spray foam, versus fiberglass insulation?
You have a vapour barrier in both (the rigid insulation acts like one, and the fiberglass has the vapour barrier). Brick gets wet on the outside...I would assume that the wind around the house is what is drying it out.
Sorry but I'm just trying to figure this out as to me, it appears both do the same thing...just differently.
I'm trying to understand the difference between adding 2X4's, FG, vapour barrier and DW on the inside of a masonry wall and building a wood framed house of the same wood stuff and adding a brick veneer.
If keeping the brick warm is necessary 2X6's aren't a good idea.
Re letting moist exhausts from furnaces, hot water tanks etc blow on the brick, it ate the crap out of mine. Fortunately a small area on the ugly side by all the utility connections.
Not all mortars are created equal. A stone church downtown had the place repointed after a century and the low bidder used a hard mortar. Weather conditions caused expansion and the stone took the brunt of the change, spalling off. All the hard mortar had to be chipped out and replaced.
Basement insulation: Frost adhesion is where the wet ground freezes to the exterior of the wall and lifts the block as the ground moves.
Exterior waterproofing uses a plastic dimple sheet the doesn't let the dirt stick to the wall.
I'm trying to understand the difference between adding 2X4's, FG, vapour barrier and DW on the inside of a masonry wall and building a wood framed house of the same wood stuff and adding a brick veneer.
If keeping the brick warm is necessary 2X6's aren't a good idea.
Re letting moist exhausts from furnaces, hot water tanks etc blow on the brick, it ate the crap out of mine. Fortunately a small area on the ugly side by all the utility connections.
Not all mortars are created equal. A stone church downtown had the place repointed after a century and the low bidder used a hard mortar. Weather conditions caused expansion and the stone took the brunt of the change, spalling off. All the hard mortar had to be chipped out and replaced.
Basement insulation: Frost adhesion is where the wet ground freezes to the exterior of the wall and lifts the block as the ground moves.
Exterior waterproofing uses a plastic dimple sheet the doesn't let the dirt stick to the wall.
Brick veneer is one layer of brick and will be more modern masonry. Brick is not structural, it is more like siding... if it fails, of well.
Double brick in this context (the build years we are talking about, say 30s to 50s give or take) is narrow cinder block on the inside typically a gap and then brick on the outside. Every six rows (typically) the inner cinder block and outer brick are tied together with sideways bricks. Brick and block are structural and will be brick and mortar qualities from that era that is 60+ years old. The total thickness of the masonry (wall) is roughly 10 inches (just measured mine). So there is more distance and mass for energy to travel through the wall. No insulation but thermal mass is/was the game for energy usage.
The condition and quality of the brick is a big factor on how water penetrates it and how well it will tolerate the change. If the brick is better quality and in good condition there will be less of a problem. Lower quality brick or already in poor shape... Plus how much driving water the brick is exposed to (building design etc.)
Older homes yet, Victorian etc. It will likely be all brick (no cinder block) and there may be multiple courses (more than two). Brick will be even softer yet....
Modern R value in codes totally ignore the impact on old building designs... but better brick will tolerate this better.
Love to be a fly on the wall at your place. Wasnt it less than a week ago she had agreed to the interior reno? Or didnt she believe you would go past the 90% finish line?
Love to be a fly on the wall at your place. Wasnt it less than a week ago she had agreed to the interior reno? Or didnt she believe you would go past the 90% finish line?
Haha ya you’re right. It’s a big decision and we’re looking at all the options.
She agreed. We went through the plan again along with my dad and he pointed us toward the exterior instead…so we gave it a few more days and here we are.
I look at all the options every which way…it’s a tough decision for me.
How long do you hold onto any unused paint, 1 year, 2 before you throw it out.
I think I may have found a can which the lid separated a bit from the last few weeks due to the up down temps in mid Feb. Moved all the older stuff out to the garage.
How long do you hold onto any unused paint, 1 year, 2 before you throw it out.
I think I may have found a can which the lid separated a bit from the last few weeks due to the up down temps in mid Feb. Moved all the older stuff out to the garage.
How long do you hold onto any unused paint, 1 year, 2 before you throw it out.
I think I may have found a can which the lid separated a bit from the last few weeks due to the up down temps in mid Feb. Moved all the older stuff out to the garage.
Way more than one or two years. It's rare I would need a touch up in that timeframe. If a wall has been exposed to sun, paint in the can wont match they wall pretty quickly. I keep it anyway. Repainting a whole wall with it can work and be close enough. If I change the colour of a room, all old paint for that room leaves.
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