Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house? | Page 318 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

@mimico_polak the brick deterioration was caused by the insulation on the inside (brick now gets wet and does not dry out before freezing). Less R and maybe it would not be as bad. Why did he insulate....he was gutting the house for other reasons and decided to go crazy on the grants at the time.

Long ago I was looking at a product from Nadura but sadly was only sold by Rona in QC. It was 4X8 2.5 inch closed cell foam boards that fit together with built in strapping. Just slap it up, secure it, install some outlets, drywall on-top, and go for a beer. No framing required.

7045001_L.jpg

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On the brick, not just inusaltion is a problem, we actually have some deterioration from the neighbours hot water heater with an exhaust between the houses. Blasts our brick with hot moist air all winter long. CSA no longer allows exhausts in this situation for this reason in new installs (must be min 3 feet from property line now assuming I remember this code properly--but I still see gas guys doing it), we are four feet between the houses. I plan on doing some hardie or cedar in a decorative way to protect our brick here.
 
backmarkerducati said:
@mimico_polak the brick deterioration was caused by the insulation on the inside (brick now gets wet and does not dry out before freezing). Less R and maybe it would not be as bad. Why did he insulate....he was gutting the house for other reasons and decided to go crazy on the grants at the time.

Long ago I was looking at a product from Nadura but sadly was only sold by Rona in QC. It was 4X8 2.5 inch closed cell foam boards that fit together with built in strapping. Just slap it up, secure it, install some outlets, drywall on-top, and go for a beer. No framing required.

7045001_L.jpg

****
On the brick, not just inusaltion is a problem, we actually have some deterioration from the neighbours hot water heater with an exhaust between the houses. Blasts our brick with hot moist air all winter long. CSA no longer allows exhausts in this situation for this reason in new installs (must be min 3 feet from property line now assuming I remember this code properly--but I still see gas guys doing it), we are four feet between the houses. I plan on doing some hardie or cedar in a decorative way to protect our brick here.
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Ok thanks for the explanation.

Maybe I'm not understanding...but why is there such a difference in the brick reacting to insulation being rigid insulation or spray foam, versus fiberglass insulation?

2" rigid insulation = R10
2x4 fiberglass insulation = R14

You have a vapour barrier in both (the rigid insulation acts like one, and the fiberglass has the vapour barrier). Brick gets wet on the outside...I would assume that the wind around the house is what is drying it out.

Sorry but I'm just trying to figure this out as to me, it appears both do the same thing...just differently.
 
crankcall said:
@sburns , cover entire block wall with scutan sheathing , it’s a coated black building paper . Staple gun at the top and glue next row ( it’s 3ft wide) to the previous row with a 6 “ overlap , let it curl out on floor so the base plate of frame wall sits on it not concrete. Frame wall with your choice of 2x4 and insulate with roxul being careful to fill the cavities above the joists where the sill plate is . 6 mil poly vapour barrier , drywall , done.

Wrap wall and switch boxes with poly before insulation so you can wrap and seal each box of use those plastic box covers from homo depot .

Don’t over engineer a simple basement


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Thanks I will look into this!
 
mimico_polak said:
Ok thanks for the explanation.

Maybe I'm not understanding...but why is there such a difference in the brick reacting to insulation being rigid insulation or spray foam, versus fiberglass insulation?

2" rigid insulation = R10
2x4 fiberglass insulation = R14

You have a vapour barrier in both (the rigid insulation acts like one, and the fiberglass has the vapour barrier). Brick gets wet on the outside...I would assume that the wind around the house is what is drying it out.

Sorry but I'm just trying to figure this out as to me, it appears both do the same thing...just differently.
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Short answer.... higher than R10 or R14.... R20 at least, maybe higher to R30.

Long answer:
Minimum 2X4 wall (maybe 2X6???) with a gap between the studs and the inner brick/block (from memory 1" at least). Closed sell spray foam against the inner brick, filling the space/void between the studs and the brick (thermal break) and then most of the cavity of the 2X4 wall. So at least 4 to 4.5" of spray foam.... I know to maximize the credit/rebate he did 2X6 and higher R yet either in the basement or above grade (I do not remember) so it could be even higher yet above grade, approaching six inches and R30. Logic to me says the 2X6 was above ground...but then doing (sorry "observing") the electrical I seem to remember below--it was a long time ago.

The brick deterioration risk--will depend on the brick and how the interior R value impacts outer brick drying--those are a given. I know the cause of his.... and anecdotally others here did lower R (10 or 14) and indicated they did not see a problem. So my total guess, if he lowered the R to 10 or 14 he may not have had as much of a brick problem as that is one variable--quality of the brick the other. Once the spray foam guys were there the increased cost for thicker wasn't that much and he got more rebate just had to make the 2X wall thicker before hand and the rebates at the time were geared to R value levels up to a certain level.
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The gap between the studded walls and the brick creates a thermal break between the block and the studs but it also compensates for the unevenness in the inner side of the block/brick wall. That is the downside of the rigid foam boards against the block, the block may not be all that flat. If you strip back to the block and do foam boards against it you will also hit this. The mason was concerned about what the outside looked like, not the inside...
 
Thank you @backmarkerducati for the explanation. Appreciate it.

I’m overthinking this thing trying to look at all the options.

I was all in for exterior upgrade, then all in for internal and now when I look at it again I’m 50/50.

Effing hell.
 
GreyGhost said:
Good technology. Giant aholes in charge. Tried to get laws passed to require every table saw to use their technology and pay a licensing fee. I will never give them a dime. Once the patent expires, I'll consider one.
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I read a few articles as well about the the founder of SawStop being a total dick. Too bad as the technology could have been available in other saws if he just licensed it instead of trying to shove it down everyone's throat.

From what I know, as of 2017 Festool now owns SawStop. Well actually Festool's parent company (TTS Tooltechnic Systems Holding AG) owns SawStop.
This is What Festool Says About Their SawStop Acquisition

Bosch has a similar technology but was essentially kicked out of selling their saw in the USA. This was rules during the Trump day. Which rolled over to Canada as we are a smaller market and Bosch didn't feel like it was worth their while trying to sell the saw here.

Court Rules in Favor of SawStop Over Bosch Reaxx Injury Mitigating Table Saw Patent Infringement Suit
 
I bought a kitchen sink. Not overly happy about it as it was a pricey thing but it had everything we wanted and the faucet and accessory holes all in the right places. It’s also a Delta brand sink and comes with a nice warranty. Saves us some counter space too with a cutting board that slides over the double sink and the divider between the two bowls is low giving you basically a hybrid sink between single and double bowl. Best of both worlds.

Selecting a range hood is driving me nuts though. I want it quiet and not gargantuan as there’s not a lot of space between cooktop and cabinet bottoms. Those two requirements are pretty much mutually exclusive unless I open my wallet a lot wider.
 
Don’t cheap out on the hood . Get the CFM required for your stove and duct run . And the second price is filters , make sure you can get them and afford them or like many you cheap out on changing them .


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crankcall said:
Don’t cheap out on the hood . Get the CFM required for your stove and duct run . And the second price is filters , make sure you can get them and afford them or like many you cheap out on changing them .


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This one is getting vented outside. Probably only about a 3ft-4ft run with two elbows through cabinets and the wall. The hoods I’m looking at have dishwasher safe stainless steel filters. Two hoods are interesting, both Broan brand. Both about 6” in height. One is 450CFM and the other is 650CFM. $$$ difference is about $200 between them so I might just go for the 650. They are supposed to be quietish.

Some other hoods I looked at that were on the list of ”best kitchen hoods” were about 10” in height. I only have 29” from cook top to bottom of cabinets so I can’t put anything like that in.
 
Each elbow is supposed to be the equivalent of 10ft straight pipe , I’d buy the 650 .
Mine is so loud you can’t actually stand at the stove and talk , but it will suck lids off pots .
It’s a grand to replace so we will just shout for a couple years


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If you want quiet, thin and lots of airflow, remote fan is the way to go. Sadly not cheap and hard to install in some situations (like Jc's).

As for quietish, try to listen to them and/or find a rating/number (sones, dba etc). Marketing loves to get way ahead of engineering. Any fan on high won't be quiet. The interesting number (that none will give you) is how loud it is on low. That gives you some extraction at a sound level you can live with (hopefully). Even on low, some are annoyingly loud and that makes you far less likely to turn it on.
 
sburns said:
Hey Guys, curious on your thoughts on a basement reno. (next year project)

I might have to redo 1 room. Both to control dust and moisture leakage. I have block foundation which is not painted, which I believe is causing dust issues and some air/moisture leakage (in the winter which might be why my humidity is so low).

Here's what I am contemplating:
Block wall / paint / 2" Ridge Foam board / 2x4 frame / batt insulation / vapour barrier / drywall.

The paint wouldn't be to control mositure but for dust and apparently is still breathable.
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I would fix the moisture problem first, EPS is not able to holdback leaks.

I'd pass on the 2" rigid foam for the walls -- you want that side of a concrete wall to breathe a little, otherwise vapor that moves in between the EPS and poly vapor barrier gets trapped and leads to odor and mold. I'd frame with 2x6 and use full batts 24oc as there is no structural element. This reduces thermal transmission thru studs and further improves insulation. Both EPS and Fiberglass are about the same R value /inch.
 
Mad Mike said:
I would fix the moisture problem first, EPS is not able to holdback leaks.

I'd pass on the 2" rigid foam for the walls -- you want that side of a concrete wall to breathe a little, otherwise vapor that moves in between the EPS and poly vapor barrier gets trapped and leads to odor and mold. I'd frame with 2x6 and use full batts 24oc as there is no structural element. This reduces thermal transmission thru studs and further improves insulation. Both EPS and Fiberglass are about the same R value /inch.
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Why use 2x6 studs in this case? Worse thermally and more expensive. 2x4 spaced off the wall works better and is cheaper. 24" OC makes sense in either case.
 
GreyGhost said:
If he wants better thermal performance, use 2x3 spaced out from the block wall (connected to floor and floor joists but not tied to wall). Semi-rigid between block and studs (I like roxul for this as you may have moisture). Then normal batt insulation in stud cavities. Gives you 4" of insulation and breaks the thermal path between block and studs. I don't see the need for 6" insulation in a basement. Most have zero over half the wall.
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2x6, 24OC. 2x6 provides R8.25, there will be very little thermal bridging.
 
sburns said:
See there is where things become foggy, some say the 2" ridge IS or can be like a vapour barrier, but then other say it's not completely and you still need a vapour barrier at the drywall because of the cold climate we are in. I've even seen it suggested the vapour barrier is placed onto the ridge foam, then the stud wall then dry wall.
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EPS is a vapor barrier, thing is vapor barrier is always faced to the warm side of a wall. If you use it on the exterior walls, the EPS stops vapor transmission outwards from condensing.
 
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