(Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heater

ok... i've done some digging and i can find rules about paid work but nothing about unpaid work.
insurance companies have been pushing for "liscenced only" for a long time and I was told it passed.
it's not true and I am wrong.

everything i've said is based on the belief that any electrical is "liscened only". Since that's wrong everything i've said can be disregarded.

can you provide a link for that? I can't find where that's written.

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My recomendation for home owners:

Call esa and tell them what you want to do. They will ask questions, and might need to come to your house to see it in person.

They will tell you everything you need to do that will make it code legal and pass.

Then get a permit. Then do the work. When your done call the inspector. When they look at what you've done they will either pass it or tell you what you need to fix.

For additions and doing new work, rec rooms etc, ESA for sure but there are a lot of items that used to be classed under the like for like catagory. Changing a simple light switch etc (Not a breaker panel)

Re insurance, is it a law that was passed or did the insurance industry just change the policy requirements? My life insurance for example doesn't cover me for flight other than a regular scheduled airline. Ultra light or private plane I die at my own expense.

Re who can do what may also be covered under the Ministry of Labour regulations. No person other than a licenced electrician or a registered apprentice can connect or disconnect an electrical device with the except by means of an approved plug and receptacle. MOL probably doesn't apply to ones own house.

The biggest problem is that a little knowledge is a dangerous weapon. If an electrician shows a klutz how to change a receptacle in a living room the klutz will think he knows how to change one in the kitchen. The klutz may not know that if the 40 year old receptacle on the patio needs changing it should be GFI protected. All pot lights are not created equal etc.
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

LOL I'm not pulling permits to pull one wire to my garage that's ridiculous. Permits are there to protect stupid people from themselves.

I wouldn't do something if I'm not comfortable doing it... but pulling 240v to my garage isn't one of those things. Let's get real, it doesnt require an electrician's hand, but I certainly appreciate the direct answers to my original question. I can take it from there :cool:
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

.....I dunno what i really feel about this...One one hand, i REALLY dont like people throwing up regs and certifications and tickets and 50 pages of paperwork before you can flip a switch and turn a screwdriver. On the other hand some people REALLY shouldn't be messing with this crap.

So how about me for instance? I dont have a ticket nor am i a licenced electrician, but i am a licensed aircraft tech which required me to deal with a lot more complex and varying electrical and electronic work.

Currently i modify European machines to meet ESA standards and deal with ESA inspections on a regular basis. So, why is it okay for me to do electrical work in one field but not another?

and lets talk standards....Two identical motors sitting next to each other, (this is the company rep talking to me), one is CSA approved the other is European standards....The only diff is that tag thats on it. I have to yank the European motor out and install a CSA approved one. $1500 later, plus inspection cost of about 300, plus my time = $2K in extra costs for no reason what-so-ever other than having to satisfy some piece of paper.

In the end, its the consumers who swallow this cost....
 
Inspectors and standards agencies need their piece of the pie too ;)
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

and lets talk standards....Two identical motors sitting next to each other, (this is the company rep talking to me), one is CSA approved the other is European standards....The only diff is that tag thats on it. I have to yank the European motor out and install a CSA approved one. $1500 later, plus inspection cost of about 300, plus my time = $2K in extra costs for no reason what-so-ever other than having to satisfy some piece of paper.

In the end, its the consumers who swallow this cost....

Different countries. Different standards.

Car companies face this ALL the time on their worldwide market cars which serve several countries.

Why does Shoei have a helmet with one standard for UK markets, and another standard for the North American market, when at the end of the day, they are identical helmets?

.
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

.....I dunno what i really feel about this...One one hand, i REALLY dont like people throwing up regs and certifications and tickets and 50 pages of paperwork before you can flip a switch and turn a screwdriver. On the other hand some people REALLY shouldn't be messing with this crap.

So how about me for instance? I dont have a ticket nor am i a licenced electrician, but i am a licensed aircraft tech which required me to deal with a lot more complex and varying electrical and electronic work.

Currently i modify European machines to meet ESA standards and deal with ESA inspections on a regular basis. So, why is it okay for me to do electrical work in one field but not another?

and lets talk standards....Two identical motors sitting next to each other, (this is the company rep talking to me), one is CSA approved the other is European standards....The only diff is that tag thats on it. I have to yank the European motor out and install a CSA approved one. $1500 later, plus inspection cost of about 300, plus my time = $2K in extra costs for no reason what-so-ever other than having to satisfy some piece of paper.

In the end, its the consumers who swallow this cost....

Your situation isn't rare. 3M makes cable splice kits that are pricey. You can buy the parts cheaply in bulk and the components are exactly the same and from the same manufacturer. However if the kit didn't come in the 3M bag with a CSA label it isn't legal.
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

Re Insurance, if you suffer a fire loss will they cover you?

It depends on the policy and I don't know if a rule change rerquires them to notify you. Ie we will not cover fire expenses if there is uninspected wiring.

That said, if the fire expenses were due to a non-electrical cause (Kitchen cooking incident, careless smoking etc) they could deny the claim if you had stated that all wiring had been inspected. You lied on any item, policy void.

Vehicle insurance is different in that the underwriting is done before the policy is put into force. With a lot of other policies they only check things out after the damage is done. I'm not sure how home insurance stands on this.

If a fight results the insurance company has millions of dollars worth of lawyers on staff. The average home owner not so much.
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

LOL I'm not pulling permits to pull one wire to my garage that's ridiculous. Permits are there to protect stupid people from themselves.

I wouldn't do something if I'm not comfortable doing it... but pulling 240v to my garage isn't one of those things. Let's get real, it doesnt require an electrician's hand, but I certainly appreciate the direct answers to my original question. I can take it from there :cool:

Not meaning to put you down but if you have to ask how to do it should you be doing it solo? I'm not saying go for inspection because that can open a can of worms. However if an electrician dropped by for a BBQ and commented, it wouldn't hurt.
 
I didnt ask how, I just asked which wire to use. I think we can all agree that installing a breaker is a straight forward affair, and the rest of the job is just running wire and terminating at the outlet. I understood that there are multiple options for wiring (2 conductor, 3 + ground, etc) I just wasn't sure what was necessary for my specific application.

The safety part, to me at least, comes from using the right size wire and doing up the connections safely and properly. Considering its just one double breaker and 2 conductors plus a ground, its tough to screw up. I've worked in construction for a while and I'm a handy guy. All I wanted here was confirmation from knowledgeable/licensed individuals that I'm using the right stuff :thumbup: (which I received promptly, thanks again)
 
I didnt ask how, I just asked which wire to use. I think we can all agree that installing a breaker is a straight forward affair, and the rest of the job is just running wire and terminating at the outlet. I understood that there are multiple options for wiring (2 conductor, 3 + ground, etc) I just wasn't sure what was necessary for my specific application.

The safety part, to me at least, comes from using the right size wire and doing up the connections safely and properly. Considering its just one double breaker and 2 conductors plus a ground, its tough to screw up. I've worked in construction for a while and I'm a handy guy. All I wanted here was confirmation from knowledgeable/licensed individuals that I'm using the right stuff :thumbup: (which I received promptly, thanks again)

Ive seen way too many melted panels to agree its tough to screw-up.

Turn off the main breaker before the cover comes off. Put the cover back on before turning it on. And when you turn any breaker on.....stand to the side and turn your face away.


The average person doesnt have a clue what kind of power they are actually dealing with.
 
Re: (Electricians)Wiring up a 240v garage heat

.....I dunno what i really feel about this...One one hand, i REALLY dont like people throwing up regs and certifications and tickets and 50 pages of paperwork before you can flip a switch and turn a screwdriver. On the other hand some people REALLY shouldn't be messing with this crap.

So how about me for instance? I dont have a ticket nor am i a licenced electrician, but i am a licensed aircraft tech which required me to deal with a lot more complex and varying electrical and electronic work.

Currently i modify European machines to meet ESA standards and deal with ESA inspections on a regular basis. So, why is it okay for me to do electrical work in one field but not another?

and lets talk standards....Two identical motors sitting next to each other, (this is the company rep talking to me), one is CSA approved the other is European standards....The only diff is that tag thats on it. I have to yank the European motor out and install a CSA approved one. $1500 later, plus inspection cost of about 300, plus my time = $2K in extra costs for no reason what-so-ever other than having to satisfy some piece of paper.

In the end, its the consumers who swallow this cost....


LOL, reminds me of the 442 vs. 309A argument I heard this week.

The truth is there is a reason you shouldn't be touching what I do. And I sure as hell should be touching what you do either.
 
I've been doing a lot of renos at the house and electrical work around the panel so I'm comfortable with getting this done properly. I do agree that its not something just anyone should/could pick up and do on their own.

Thanks for the info
 
Funny how this topic comes up every year with the onset of winter!
4800w, I gotta install a 30amp breaker and run the line to the garage...

What kinda wire do I need? Would armoured 10-3 be the ticket here? I assume home depot would be a ripoff for wiring... How much should this stuff cost per foot? I likely only need 20-30'
 
Im looking to pick up a Mig welder and the kind of Specs I want require a 240V Outlet damit!!! The ones that run off the 110-120V just seem weak sauce. For some without Welding experience should I just go for the Cheapo 110-120V ones?

How much does it cost to run a 240V Line? Any Ideas
 
Depends what you want to weld.
If its something structural made of thicker material, you will want the larger 240v machine.
You can buy a 240 extension and plug it into your dryer or stove wall socket.

I use a lincoln 120v machine, its good for 1/8" inch material, anything more requires multi passes.
 
Depends what you want to weld.
If its something structural made of thicker material, you will want the larger 240v machine.
You can buy a 240 extension and plug it into your dryer or stove wall socket.

I use a lincoln 120v machine, its good for 1/8" inch material, anything more requires multi passes.


Thanks for the Response. I did read some of the other reviews and claimed specs on the machines. 1/8 Inch metal is about 3mm.. Some people are saying even for bike frames/subframes 2mm wall thicknses is sufficient. How's the heat penetration?
 
It all depends on your skill level really.
I can blow thru 2mm with the flux core wire feed 120v machine if i want to.
If you need the welds to look really nice, Mig is better than flux core, but also more expensive when you add the cost of argon.

Making a good weld requires a bit of experience.
I usually weld a test piece first if i need it to be super strong.
Then i beat it to hell with a hammer and see if it breaks on the weld or beside it.
 
My Welding skill is non existant. Since I dont trust my abilities with anything just yet, I would do the same. Weld something and try to break it... after satisfying my self of its strength proceed LOL...

When you said You can Blow through 2mm.. That sounds famaliar -- I think i heard that term in a youtube video before. What does it mean? will it affect the materials strength?

It all depends on your skill level really.
I can blow thru 2mm with the flux core wire feed 120v machine if i want to.
If you need the welds to look really nice, Mig is better than flux core, but also more expensive when you add the cost of argon.

Making a good weld requires a bit of experience.
I usually weld a test piece first if i need it to be super strong.
Then i beat it to hell with a hammer and see if it breaks on the weld or beside it.
 
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If the setting is too high, you can blow a molten hole through the material instead of welding it.
It's a fine line between proper penetration and ruining the whole thing, but thats what you want, a good weld.
 
Perhaps thats a good place to start when / if I get my welder. See which heat settings are capable of blowing holes... and back it down until it is just within the threshold to have the best penetration. Heat settings and Wire speeds... I think I Sent you a huge question on that in PM.. :D
 
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