Electricians in the house?

[01cbr]

Forum Sponsor

Not a fan of your sideways pics.

That 200a breaker is out of that panel? Mounts at the top? Then its single phase.

3 phase commercial panels dont have a main in the panel, they use a seperate disconnect for the most part.

 

[SunnY S]

Nvmnd

 

[matt123]

You certainly can feed a three phase panel from singe a phase system if want to see the inspector have a seizure,it can be done but it will fail on workmanship alone.The inspector will also pick your entire installation apart to the last screw after he has you replace it so NOOOOOOO don't do it,3 poles means three phase.There is more to that 3 phase breaker than meets the eye,It may be lugged to a single phase panel using ony two poles.This is done to save manufactureing cost by running only one assembley line and the reason the nameplate specifies using only two lugs for single phase,very common in production and pointless to argue over.....
Reusing old material is another red flag to inspection that the job may be a compremise on cutting corners.Breakers start to loose there ability to clear faults at their max rating after only 50 trips so it may be weak already and why they still produce fuses to this day for critical fault clearing since fuses will always carry the full load current.
Get a contractor kit that includes the panel and breakers,i would not use that stuff.If you pull a permit you must do the work as a qualified electrician cannot pull permits and can only do work on a permit pulled by a master electrician employed by the same company conversely master electricians cannot do electrical work unless they is also a qualified electrician.(master electricians are not qualified electricians just scape goats for ESA and a bad idea) I'm a 442a industrial and a 309a construction maintenance electrician and feel obligated tell you to be careful who you listen to or it will cost you big money in mistakes.You have to weigh your time,cost,frustration and learning curve against hiring a reputable contractor.None of what Ive heard here makes any sense what so ever so your best bet is to call a contractor to look over your installation for an estimate on all or some of the work.At the very least you will get break down on what you need.No offense but hydro knows nothing about installation requirements or code that's what ESA is for.
I've seen many homeowners end up with a pile of material and never complete the intended job do their friends and family's good intentions and advise.Do yourself favor heed my advise and get the job broken down by a professional and go from there or you may be sorry as this is not as straight forward as many may think.Stay away from fly by night handymen as the inspector will be dealing with you and will know if someone else did the work by your answers to his questions.Your better off doing it yourself than going down that road.The best tool you can get for this job is The Canadian Electrical Code Simplified and you can get it at any big box store.

 

[Gnu]

..... a permit pulled by a master electrician employed by the same company conversely master electricians cannot do electrical work unless they is also a qualified electrician.(master electricians are not qualified electricians just scape goats for ESA and a bad idea)

An electrician can't write for his Masters until he has been licensed for 5 years, so I don't know you get the "master electricians are not qualified electricians" statement from.

 

[SunnY S]

An electrician can't write for his Masters until he has been licensed for 5 years, so I don't know you get the "master electricians are not qualified electricians" statement from.

Engineers are allowed to write for their Master Electrician licence. So, yes, they would be "qualified" on paper, but they still wouldn't know how to do the job in real life, and many of these guys have never held a single hand tool in their life!

And its 3 years, not 5 years.

But, hell, what would I know........I've only been doing this job for 30+ years.

FROM THE ECRA WEBSITE :
This is a licence issued to an individual who has demonstrated at least 3 years experience in the electrical trade;

• As a journeyperson electrician carrying out work under a valid C of Q, or
• Working for an electrical contractor as a licensed P.Eng. registered with the PEO, or
• Working for an electrical contractor as a CET or C.Tech registered with the OACETT.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.

 

[matt123]

A master electrician is not a qualified electrician and cannot do any electrical work period.It is a 1 day code course and an exam.The job of a master electrician is to pull permits and job site safety only.It is not a trade plain and simple and they do not hold a C OF Q as an electrician get caught an you will lose the license and face fines.This is common knowledge and pisses of real electricians to no end.Be very careful.What you represent yourself as because it's fraud.If you are not a 309 or 442 you can not do electrical work.I spent 6yrs to get legal C of Q's not 1 day.You do not have to be an electrician to be a master electrician read the regulation

read section 6 where it states
(3) A master electrician shall not carry out electrical work unless he or she holds a valid certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work.

You are wrong in your assumption that A master electrician can do electrical work with just that license

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2005/elaws_src_regs_r05570_e.htm

 

[SunnY S]

or A master electrician is not a qualified electrician and cannot do any electrical work period.It is a 1 day code course and an exam.The job of a master electrician is to pull permits and job site safety only.It is not a trade .

This is incorrect and not entirely true.

 

[7up]

To the OP...
Good call on asking for advice, even if it is on a motorcycle forum. There is some good advice that has been offered.
Mine...sell the panel you got from work on kijiji, it is not allowed and will help pay for having it done right.
Visit www.esasafe.com ,under "Find Electrical Contractor" enter you address and check off the "Residential" and "ACP" options. (ACP is the Authorized Contractor Program and they are inspected on an audit basis and are pre-authorized to have Hydro re-connect your service.) Get a few quotes, etc.
Your existing service is in very bad shape. Oversized fusing, white/neutral conductor connected to a phase and a black wire on the neutral, old twisted pair ground, maybe even some aluminum wiring mixed in there and judging by the size and number of wires leading out of the sub-panel something doesn't jive (looks like it feeds a kitchen reno) I'd hate to see in there.
That is some old ****, keep the covers on, do not poke around in there and call an electrcial contractor. Good Luck.

 

[Freestyle72]

To the OP...
Good call on asking for advice, even if it is on a motorcycle forum. There is some good advice that has been offered.
Mine...sell the panel you got from work on kijiji, it is not allowed and will help pay for having it done right.
Visit www.esasafe.com ,under "Find Electrical Contractor" enter you address and check off the "Residential" and "ACP" options. (ACP is the Authorized Contractor Program and they are inspected on an audit basis and are pre-authorized to have Hydro re-connect your service.) Get a few quotes, etc.
Your existing service is in very bad shape. Oversized fusing, white/neutral conductor connected to a phase and a black wire on the neutral, old twisted pair ground, maybe even some aluminum wiring mixed in there and judging by the size and number of wires leading out of the sub-panel something doesn't jive (looks like it feeds a kitchen reno) I'd hate to see in there.
That is some old ****, keep the covers on, do not poke around in there and call an electrcial contractor. Good Luck.

BWAHAHA funny you say that. Previous owner put in a full kitchen downstairs. And for the main feed lines one leg is aluminum, the other leg is copper and the rest is copper. Having a second electrician come check it out.

 

[7up]

BWAHAHA funny you say that. Previous owner put in a full kitchen downstairs. And for the main feed lines one leg is aluminum, the other leg is copper and the rest is copper. Having a second electrician come check it out.

And you did get the panel from work, didn't ya? haha. Once again, best of luck and I think upgrading this service is a smart thing to do.:thumbup:

 

[Freestyle72]

And you did get the panel from work, didn't ya? haha. Once again, best of luck and I think upgrading this service is a smart thing to do.:thumbup:

LOL must have read over that part yes. Perks of being in heavy construction and the fact that electricians always want to work with brand new stuff not a 1 year old panel LOL. But the panel is fine for single phase if you read the label.

If I really need to do a lot of re-wiring I think I'll get a 100amp panel as well and put it in the house and feed it from the 200amp panel in the garage.

 

[matt123]

E

This is incorrect and not entirely true.

Look it's a pitaly little certificate and you know it.If you've really been in the trade for 30yrs either you have a real license or you've been hanging out on the fringe's of trade working illegally.You can't call it a trade C OF Q because it is not so don't try to pass it off as such.An inspector will not sanction work done with it alone and thats a fact.I'm not trying to be a prick but there are electricians who would seriously lose there ****** over this.
It's a one day course and we spend years as apprentices to get a trade
Some of the anger displayed on electrical forums over this is unbelievable to put it mildly and the trade is furious enough to petition a change in the title and it is coming
Inspectors are none to happy either as it misleads the costumer into thinking they have a qualified electrician doing their work.
I work in industry so I'm not affected and personally think everyone is entitled to make a living but it is what it is so don't try and feed me a line of crap.
This is one example of how we feel about this license and a very tame one at that.Most threads get closed rather quickly.They weren't even talking about the masters and ended up wanting to start a petition.

Third post from the top on page two (mr electrician)Then they start chiming in with the where do we sign posts farther down."We want our trade back"
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/171035/2.html

 

[01cbr]

The whole masters things is a cash grab.

You need a masters to pull a permit. So home/building owners pay big bucks for a legit contractor....then you get a pre apprentice doing the work.

 

[SunnY S]

You certainly can feed a three phase panel from singe a phase system if want to see the inspector have a seizure,it can be done but it will fail on workmanship alone..

I spoke to the ESA Technical Advisor for Western Ontario for clarification today. This is the guy the ESA inspectors go to when they are stumped.

You CAN use a three phase panel with single phase. As long as the third phase is marked, or labeled as not in use. And every third slot in the panel if filled with a filler. So, no, this installation would not fail, and the inspector would not have seizure.

When queried on whether you can double up a phase (I've seen it done a few times in my career), he says you have to check with the panel maker. If the manufacturer says its ok, then you are gold. How can the hydro inspector contest this?

Of course, none of these are recommended or "normal" procedures, and will surely raise the inspectors attention if he comes across it. But it does NOT mean its WRONG, if the proper channels are used and the homework is done. Thats what we pay electrical engineers for, isn't it?

A master electrician is not a qualified electrician and cannot do any electrical work period.It is a 1 day code course and an exam.The job of a master electrician is to pull permits and job site safety only.It is not a trade plain and simple and they do not hold a C OF Q as an electrician get caught an you will lose the license and face fines.This is common knowledge and pisses of real electricians to no end.Be very careful.What you represent yourself as because it's fraud.If you are not a 309 or 442 you can not do electrical work.I spent 6yrs to get legal C of Q's not 1 day.You do not have to be an electrician to be a master electrician read the regulation

read section 6 where it states
(3) A master electrician shall not carry out electrical work unless he or she holds a valid certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work.

You are wrong in your assumption that A master electrician can do electrical work with just that license

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2005/elaws_src_regs_r05570_e.htm

This is incorrect and not entirely true.

Your blanket statement regarding Master Electricians is what put me off. (I also noticed you edited your post much after it was written)

"A master electrician is not a qualified electrician and cannot do any electrical work period"


How can you say this?

Many Master Electricians have their Journeymans (C of Q) license. After they get their regular license 309A/D 442, for a period of 3+ years, they can apply for their master license as well.

I know lots of Master Electricians who are qualified electricians. Im one of them.

It is a 1 day code course and an exam.

Its quite apparent to me that you have never taken this course. True, you can go in and write the multipage 3 hour exam without prior training or instruction. But you better be well versed in OHSA, WHMIS, electrical code, employment standards, law and lawsuits and a hell of a lot more. Cause these are all on my exam.

The course I took involved 2 months of night school to prepare for the exam.


You have 3 options to prep for the master exam:

http://www.esasafe.com/Contractors/stt_0046.php


You also have the option to download the 700 page document for yourself and study at your leisure....

http://www.esaecra.info/pdf/2009_Master_Electrician_Examination_Study_Material.pdf

.

 

[Gary]

Free estimates.

Gary didn't pay me enough donuts, so I didnt do his work. But we've done work for other GTAM people.

Had I known your line of work at the time - the job would have been yours.
Not to worry, the "Beemer Brothers" will be on my short list for any future endeavours.

Payment supplemented with donuts and pierogies.

 

[Gnu]

A master electrician is not a qualified electrician and cannot do any electrical work period.It is a 1 day code course and an exam.The job of a master electrician is to pull permits and job site safety only.It is not a trade plain and simple and they do not hold a C OF Q as an electrician get caught an you will lose the license and face fines.This is common knowledge and pisses of real electricians to no end.Be very careful.What you represent yourself as because it's fraud.If you are not a 309 or 442 you can not do electrical work.I spent 6yrs to get legal C of Q's not 1 day.You do not have to be an electrician to be a master electrician read the regulation

read section 6 where it states
(3) A master electrician shall not carry out electrical work unless he or she holds a valid certificate of qualification authorizing the carrying out of the electrical work.

You are wrong in your assumption that A master electrician can do electrical work with just that license

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2005/elaws_src_regs_r05570_e.htm

My original point was that a majority of Masters have their C of Q so they are qualified to work on the tools. Your post is total ******** and you don't understand the trade you are in. But that is evident by the fact it took you 6 years to pass your C of Q in a trade where your apprenticeship lasts 4 1/2 to 5 years max.

 

[01cbr]

My original point was that a majority of Masters have their C of Q so they are qualified to work on the tools. Your post is total ******** and you don't understand the trade you are in. But that is evident by the fact it took you 6 years to pass your C of Q in a trade where your apprenticeship lasts 4 1/2 to 5 years max.

LOL good luck even being eligible to write in 4.5 years.

 

[matt123]

It is no a blanket statement.If you are doing electrical work without a 309 or a 442a you are not legal and that is the law Did you not read the act.You need not be an electrician to get A masters license but you do need a C OF Q to do electrician in Ontario.The master is nothing more than an endorsement Are you an electrician or not?What are you qualifications?I bet you not licensed to work in Ontario are you?This is COMMON knowledge and to sit there and demand that this is a real license when I have given you the act and threads from a professional electrical contractors forum is laughable.
I only edited my post because I somehow cut and pasted Section 6 of the ELECTRICITY ACT to the beginning of the post.Here it is again,please read it one more time.You cant argue with it but you will try im sure

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2005/elaws_src_regs_r05570_e.htm

 

[Freestyle72]

Sandro came out and took a look and said I could pay him in hookers and blow. Electricians, what a crazy bunch.

But for real Sandro was a super helpful guy and his attitude towards the work was exactly the kind I look for when I hire a contractor.

He also showed me all the work if I would have to do it myself and I appreciate that as it helps me understand the job. I think this is one of the cases where I have to do more homework on my goals with the wiring 200amp vs 100amp. And save my pennies to pay someone to do it if I feel it's over my head.

 

[f1mauro]

Wait a minute! Is this Sandro fellow qualified under the laws of Ontario?

Forum Sponsor