Does anyone know USA medical costs?

nobbie48

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Another forum is planning a fund raiser for a US member who has just been diagnosed with cancer. The guy has no medical insurance. The numbers that float around in my mind are $10K for testing and ten times that for treatments.
One of the things I don't like with our "Free" system is that we don't see the costs so have no idea of what they are.
While anything is better than nothing it's hard not to see a degree of hopelessness in these situations. Cancer isn't a rare disease and how many charity rides can one take in?
 
I would have to know the guy real well to consider contributing. If they're not a model citizen, or their chance of remission is low, or he has dependants, or whatever... would all factor into my decision to get involved.

Not to bring up that old ghost again, but if I only know him as a friend of a friend who sometimes posts funny stuff online kind of thing, that's not gonna do it for me.
 
Currently, my mother is dying of lung cancer.
She has asked me if I would support her getting a transplant, and I had to tell her no. As much as I love her.
For a transplant to take place, another person must die.
My mother has smoked 3 packs a day her whole life, and continues to now, even though she is on oxygen.
I know she wouldn't quit, even after a transplant. I told her that it would be a huge disrespect to continue smoking after someone had to die so she could live on, and that I think a lung transplant would be better served for someone who never smoked, and perhaps developed cancer from vocation or something else that they didn't knowingly contribute to themselves.

So you can see, it'd have to be an innocent victim for me to participate or support.


As far as treatment costs in the US, Iam sure ours are just as high, maybe higher. However, the patient doesn't see the amount on the bill, so Dr's are almost free to bill OHIP whatever they want. Not enough checks and balances for me.

As an example, my wife and I, when conceiving, had to attend a specialist a number of times, and a 3D ultrasound was performed and it's results were on a DVD, and to be FedEx ed to the specialist's office half hr from the ultrasound machine's location. Our appointment was booked for one month away so the specialist would have time to review the DVD and come up with a game plan. When we arrived for our appointment, the specialist asked us what we were here for. I told him we were anious to know his prognosis on the 3D scans. He had never seen them. We waited 2 hrs there while he and his staff searched and called the ultrasound office....millions of dollars worth of annual staff salary between both offices, and not one could find any trace of the DVD or it's contents. Basically the few grand the scans cost OHIP was totally wasted, as was this appointments costs. I was irate. I work for myself and now lost a day's wage as well as $50 in fuel, and all for nothing. I yelled that if they had entrusted the DVD with me, I could very well have brought it with me today. So they then made it look like they wanted to see us for another reason, and insisted on takeing blood from the both of us, for no reason. It was just a backpedal to try to hide their incompetence. I rolled up my sleeve and told them to go ahead and take our blood and scan it, and charge OHIP a couple grand more for unneccessary bloodwork (as it had no bearing on why we were there to begin with). The Dr's were freely wasting taxpayers money on 100% unnecessary things, to try to hid the fact that they had dropped the ball and brought us in for no reason.

At least in the US< I would be a paying customer that the Dr's would have to face. I would refuse to pay for the service of the scan , since none of the results were available, they may as well not have been performed at all. The US system holds the Dr more accountable. Customers don't pay for services not rendered. Here they just bill OHIP, regardless of whether the work was done, or done correctly. You wouldn't pay someone for car repairs that didn't happen would you?
 
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Omnivore, You have faced some tough choices.
One comment you made makes me miss my old doctor. If a test on my check up was negative I got a phone call from his receptionist saying "You're OK. See you next year." He retired and my new doctor has me make an appointment for a "Consultation" to say "You're OK. See you next year." He makes more and I lose work.

The principle of triage was apparently from the Napolionic wars where, because of the massive casualties, they had to seperate the injured into three groups. Group A would survive whether treated or not, group B would die regardless of receiving treatment or not but group C would die if not treated and live if treated. Group C got treated first. It's hard to apply the same principles in life.

I've met the person in question a couple of times and he's a decent sort but a victim of 2008. The economy didn't come around fast enough for him. With the exception of the big rides (Bad Ride, RFS) I can't see private fund raisers doing much more than providing grocery money, hence the concern.
As faulty as our system is I have trouble trying to understand the situation many of us would be in if we lived further south.
 
Just to point out our costs are actually much lower than the states, it has to do with no excess equipment ( a well documented problem in the US), and monopoly drug buying power.

But I take your point about the doctors being responsible to the paitent, as a paying customer.
 
As far as treatment costs in the US, Iam sure ours are just as high, maybe higher. However, the patient doesn't see the amount on the bill, so Dr's are almost free to bill OHIP whatever they want. Not enough checks and balances for me.

You might be right, but I thought OHIP imposed caps on payments to doctors? They can only see a certain amount of patients, for a certain cost per day.
 
Oddly just going through this with another " internet friend" from a different forum. She is very well known in her online presence and known personally to a few members. Her insurance covers some stuff, she will need to sell her home and will not be able to work for at least one year.
If we all throw some money at her she can move to a smaller apt. , keep internet to stay connected to friends and keep some dignity. Her job is in upstate NY and all her family is in Louisianna.

I've never met her and will send a few bucks thru the paypal link set up.

Why? Because it may help, I can skip wing nite this week and wont miss the money.

PS, I'm married to somebody in the medical businesss and we have family in the US.... Costs depend on the cancer, certain drugs can go 10k a month. Whats a life worth?
 
I cannot comment on the cost of cancer treatment, but I did spend 1.5 nights in the ER (this is in California). I had insurance, so I paid my $100 deductible and insurance covered the rest. I was later sent a statement from the insurance company telling me that they covered the cost of my stay to the tune of over $20,000 :o

While the Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect, the US system is definitely broken. If you don't have health insurance in the US, you had better hope you don't ever need to use the US healthcare system.
 
If he was diagnosed already what are they testing?

Basic testing only, kinda like saying your bike won't start. Somethings wrong but until they hook up the meters you don't know what and the realities of the repair.

The situation isn't unlike crankcalls. If giving up an evening out lets someone else keep their dignity I'll do what I can.
 
This is based on personal experience. I had a car accident back in the fall and had to go to the US for some treatment.

I had to have an MRI on my wrist and shoulder and couldn't get one in Ontario so I had to go to Buffalo. It cost $600 US.

I also now need an operation on my wrist and had a quote from Mark Sanders. If you go to thumpertalk you know who he is. It was around $10k for 2 nights in hospital, the operation + all the other bodies required in the operating like nurses, anathesioligist, etc.
 
At least in the US< I would be a paying customer that the Dr's would have to face. I would refuse to pay for the service of the scan , since none of the results were available, they may as well not have been performed at all. The US system holds the Dr more accountable. Customers don't pay for services not rendered. Here they just bill OHIP, regardless of whether the work was done, or done correctly. You wouldn't pay someone for car repairs that didn't happen would you?

Reminds me of when I went to the dentist to clean my teeth. I had a dental plan and the dentists try to sell me an x-ray and some other crap. I don't see why I need to expose my brain to this crap if I don't need it. I told them I just come to clean my teeth and if they can't do it, I will go back to my regular dentist. It drove me insane.
 
You might be right, but I thought OHIP imposed caps on payments to doctors? They can only see a certain amount of patients, for a certain cost per day.

As an example, Ontario has 400% more cesarean secion baby deliveries than any other province.
A doctor can bill up to $1850 for a natural delivery. He can bill $10,000 for a c-section.
My wife, and more than half of her 30somethign yr old "mommy friends" have all had c-sections.....Dr figures what the hell..I am already outta bed at 3 am to deliver this baby.....may as well make it worthwhile..... See a pattern here?
 
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As an example, Ontario has 400% more cesarean secion baby deliveries than any other province.
A doctor can bill up to $1850 for a natural delivery. He can bill $10,000 for a c-section.
My wife, and more than half of her 30somethign yr old "mommy friends" have all had c-sections.....Dr figures what the hell..I am already outta bed at 3 am to deliver this baby.....may as well make it worthwhile..... See a pattern here?

I hope you're wrong.
 
As an example, Ontario has 400% more cesarean secion baby deliveries than any other province.
A doctor can bill up to $1850 for a natural delivery. He can bill $10,000 for a c-section.
My wife, and more than half of her 30somethign yr old "mommy friends" have all had c-sections.....Dr figures what the hell..I am already outta bed at 3 am to deliver this baby.....may as well make it worthwhile..... See a pattern here?


why wait around for somebody to dilate? you can line up 3 sections in a day and still beat the traffic to the cottage. Its a business.
 
why wait around for somebody to dilate? you can line up 3 sections in a day and still beat the traffic to the cottage. Its a business.

It's a monopoly. How much government is the right amount? What does the government run that actually works better than the private sector?
 
The US medical system costs twice per capita what ours does, even with all the inefficiencies that are in our system.
 
The US medical system costs twice per capita what ours does, even with all the inefficiencies that are in our system.

Yeah, I do believe that's true. I don't think the US system is better..certain people get better care than we do I suspect. But on the whole, that's probably not true and there is a lot of duplication of bureacracy in the States. It would be nice to have some choice about your healthcare though.
 
A friend of mine who lived near Watkins Glen went into massive debt over two years while being treated for lung cancer. He ended up having to sell a rather stately old home that had been in his family for almost 75 years to help pay for his treatment and support his family while he was off work.

Several years later, his widow was still making installment payments to the hospital. Apparently the treatment didn't come with a money-back guarantee. The workers at the race track there ended up holding regular raffles of smashed up NASCAR car parts to help her dig her way out. Good thing that the racers were so accommodating in provided wrecks for them.
 
The usa not only spends more per person they have fewer people actually covered. If they had a universal system like canada's provinces they could have way better care for every single person than we have here (larger insurance pool).

Another thing that is broken in the usa is if you have insurance they will order every test possible. A friend was tested for prostate cancer & pregnancy. Those of you that know anything about anatomy will know if you have a prostate you can't get pregnant. He was glad to hear he tested negative for both.

Another friend when visiting the ER got billed for the entire contents of the room (ie bandaids and other disposable items) even though none of it was used in her treatment.

the US system is severely broken.
 
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