Does anyone know USA medical costs?

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Brian P said:
The US medical system costs twice per capita what ours does, even with all the inefficiencies that are in our system.
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In Canada if you tell your doctor you have a headache he tells you to take a couple of aspirin and call him if it doesn't go away.
In the USA they do a CAT scan, MRI, blood work, and then tell you to take a couple of aspirin. If they missed something the lawyers are standing by.
 
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nobbie48 said:
In Canada if you tell your doctor you have a headache he tells you to take a couple of aspirin and call him if it doesn't go away.
In the USA they do a CAT scan, MRI, blood work, and then tell you to take a couple of aspirin. If they missed something the lawyers are standing by.
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Actually my doctor tell her anything and she ships you off to a specialist. Great most of the time but there have been a few things she could have helped me out with instead.
In the states look at what one person pays for healthcare there and I am sure if you paid people like that here you would get the same treatment. Here we spread the money out so more people get help.

Someone from work was telling me that Canada has crap healthcare compared to the French. Anyone know what their system is like?
 
Can't really state a 'cost of cancer treatment', since different States and different types of cancer will skew the average. People WITH insurance can find themselves out $20K, in the US. A friend of mine went through it (colon cancer) something like 10 years ago, in North Carolina, and it cost him $120K without insurance.
 
Cat13 said:
Someone from work was telling me that Canada has crap healthcare compared to the French. Anyone know what their system is like?
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I heard the Dutch had a good system. It is mandatory that everyone buys insurance but the clinics etc are privately run and must compete for business.
 
nobbie48 said:
I heard the Dutch had a good system. It is mandatory that everyone buys insurance but the clinics etc are privately run and must compete for business.
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That's the thing..in the States clinics and hospitals advertise..and their ratings matter because people have a choice.. Here, if you are unfortunate enough to get stuck in a hospital like, say, Scarborough General..good luck to you..
 
Cat13 said:
Actually my doctor tell her anything and she ships you off to a specialist. Great most of the time but there have been a few things she could have helped me out with instead.
In the states look at what one person pays for healthcare there and I am sure if you paid people like that here you would get the same treatment. Here we spread the money out so more people get help.

Someone from work was telling me that Canada has crap healthcare compared to the French. Anyone know what their system is like?
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I think the Canadian system is amazing considering the costs that we work with. ( that being said. if I had the ability to pay I would go to the US or Germany for novel or risky treatment)

We also have a huge geographical problem because our health care system can't reach economies of scale the way that Japan or Hong Kong can ( they also have great systems). But they get to reach so many more people with the same amount of money because well.. its a small area..
 
I think that chart reinforces the point actually that its really about distribution of dollars.

the US is choosing to spend a lot of money on a few people rather than a little money on a lot of people, thats why their spending per capita is so high when their overall results are so low.

But if you can afford it, its the best care you can get.
 
OpenGambit said:
I think that chart reinforces the point actually that its really about distribution of dollars.

the US is choosing to spend a lot of money on a few people rather than a little money on a lot of people, thats why their spending per capita is so high when their overall results are so low.

But if you can afford it, its the best care you can get.
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I tihnk, as Brian pointed out earlier, that the cost of administering the US system is pretty high. I remember seeing a program that said 52 cents of every dollar or something went to administration in the US because of the number of insurance companies involved. In Canada it was something like 17 cents of every dollar. However, if you have the money to get good insurance, you can get better, faster care in the US. If you don't..well..
 
Some comparisons.

First my doctor in Toronto had 1 assistant for 4 doctors. My doctor in California had 3.5 assistants for just himself. Incredibly inefficient.

Second in Canada coverage is part of universal healthcare. In California not the case (clearly). I am a healthy male, no pre-existing conditions and the insurance I have in California is as follows:

$297 month premium
$5,000 deductible per year
40% co-pay after the deductible
$35 office visits (doctor bills the insurance company $278 for 15 minutes)
$10 prescriptions (only 30 day prescriptions are allowed, no 60 or 90).
4 office visits per year at the $35, after that out of my pocket

ER visit covered if admitted to the hospital, if not, then deductible and co-pay apply.

Non-network hospitals not covered unless approved.
$145 for routine blood tests

This is through blue shield.

When I was in South Carolina I needed to go to an ER for a medical issue. The total bill was $12,000 for the visit. As I had different insurance at the time, I didn't get dinged with the bill (not admitted), nor did I have a huge co-pay. Sadly I couldn't get that coverage in California as insurance plans vary by state.

The U.S. system is totally broken.
 
revrandy said:
$297 month premium
$5,000 deductible per year
40% co-pay after the deductible
$35 office visits (doctor bills the insurance company $278 for 15 minutes)
$10 prescriptions (only 30 day prescriptions are allowed, no 60 or 90).
4 office visits per year at the $35, after that out of my pocket
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It's important to remember that healthcare isn't "free" in Canada. We all pay for our healthcare via our taxes. I think the average cost per capita in Ontario is around $5k. So your $300/mth premium isn't really that out to lunch as a comparison. I'm not really arguing one way or the other, but we DO pay. I mention this concept to people at work who love our benefits and I always ask them, if they could have the money the corporation pays towards our health benefits in their pockets as cash, would they take that rather than the coverage. It's not an insignificant sum.. But because people don't see it they figure it's free.
 
invictus43 said:
you can get better, faster care in the US.
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Most definitely. I have a friend living in the States, and the system he has access to is much much better than ours. But as you said, only if you can (or your employer chooses to) afford the insurance.

On the opposite end, another friend of mine's son went to the US to visit family. He broke his wrist. All they did for him was wrap it in gauze - he basically held his hand until he came back home.
 
invictus43 said:
It's important to remember that healthcare isn't "free" in Canada. We all pay for our healthcare via our taxes. I think the average cost per capita in Ontario is around $5k. So your $300/mth premium isn't really that out to lunch as a comparison. I'm not really arguing one way or the other, but we DO pay. I mention this concept to people at work who love our benefits and I always ask them, if they could have the money the corporation pays towards our health benefits in their pockets as cash, would they take that rather than the coverage. It's not an insignificant sum.. But because people don't see it they figure it's free.
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Thank you, thank you , thank you. I thought I was the only person that realized this. If only the doctors had to give you a receipt saying "$XXX paid on your behalf by the people of Ontario", maybe a few would wake up.
 
revrandy said:
Some comparisons.

First my doctor in Toronto had 1 assistant for 4 doctors. My doctor in California had 3.5 assistants for just himself. Incredibly inefficient.

Second in Canada coverage is part of universal healthcare. In California not the case (clearly). I am a healthy male, no pre-existing conditions and the insurance I have in California is as follows:

$297 month premium
$5,000 deductible per year
40% co-pay after the deductible
$35 office visits (doctor bills the insurance company $278 for 15 minutes)
$10 prescriptions (only 30 day prescriptions are allowed, no 60 or 90).
4 office visits per year at the $35, after that out of my pocket

ER visit covered if admitted to the hospital, if not, then deductible and co-pay apply.

Non-network hospitals not covered unless approved.
$145 for routine blood tests

This is through blue shield.

When I was in South Carolina I needed to go to an ER for a medical issue. The total bill was $12,000 for the visit. As I had different insurance at the time, I didn't get dinged with the bill (not admitted), nor did I have a huge co-pay. Sadly I couldn't get that coverage in California as insurance plans vary by state.

The U.S. system is totally broken.
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Do I understand correctly?

You pay $3564 in premiums + the first $5K + a percent of the rest?

The first $8564 comes out of your pocket before the insurer dips into his? Then it's shared 40/60?

Assuming an $80K hospital stay, how much would your bank account see as a hit?
 
Im not sure about cancer but I just had major reconstruction of my skull 5 weeks ago due to an accident, my surgery was 13 hours long and I had 60 pieces of titanium installed in my skull. I stayed in the hospital for a total of 3 weeks, and all I had to pay in Canada was the $45 for the ambulance ride from the airport to the hospital. I talked to my plastic surgeon and he said if it wasn't for OHIP, I would have had to pay around $350,000 for the surgery and 3 weeks stay in Sunnybrook hospital...

So having been told that, I can see cancer treatment being even more as its a much longer process and recovery. Although I guess it really depends on how bad the cancer is...
 
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In the states the insurance has to approve every test and surgery that you or your infants or wife really need. So my 2 yrs nephew needed his tonsils removed and they kept saying surgery is unnecessary until the poor kid was unable to eat or sleep or breath properly, when it was done and over with he was 3 years old. A total of a year in suffering and 100 different antibiotic courses just to make him cope. So for the ungrateful little ones here who think that the US system is generally better, do yourself a favor and go visit the insurance forums and imagine the "adjuster" is in charge of your new born's healthcare. Good luck.

Canada is the best in my mind. at least my health care spending that I never spent because I am healthy is going to someone else who needs it now. Similarly c-section is a faster and frees up the bed faster and for the concerned husbands, it doesn't damage the general area. I am pro choice here for women to choose which route to take.

A friend of mine's 8lbs baby barreled his way out on a natural delivery that caused 35 stitches and the permanent inability to enjoy sex like she used to, try to loose that.
 
invictus43 said:
It's important to remember that healthcare isn't "free" in Canada. We all pay for our healthcare via our taxes. I think the average cost per capita in Ontario is around $5k. So your $300/mth premium isn't really that out to lunch as a comparison. I'm not really arguing one way or the other, but we DO pay. I mention this concept to people at work who love our benefits and I always ask them, if they could have the money the corporation pays towards our health benefits in their pockets as cash, would they take that rather than the coverage. It's not an insignificant sum.. But because people don't see it they figure it's free.
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It isn't free but while a significant portion of our taxes may go to health care, it's not an added cost taken out of our take home funds.. americans pay a similar amount of tax as us (though it may not ramp up as fast) and they aren't really getting what we get for that. for some one who makes 25k a year before taxes $8000+ for health care like rev is paying would be a significant amount of their take home pay. that's already a 1/3 of their gross. My Dr is good, which is why i stick with him.
 
invictus43 said:
It's important to remember that healthcare isn't "free" in Canada. We all pay for our healthcare via our taxes. I think the average cost per capita in Ontario is around $5k. So your $300/mth premium isn't really that out to lunch as a comparison. I'm not really arguing one way or the other, but we DO pay. I mention this concept to people at work who love our benefits and I always ask them, if they could have the money the corporation pays towards our health benefits in their pockets as cash, would they take that rather than the coverage. It's not an insignificant sum.. But because people don't see it they figure it's free.
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Isn't that just semantics? If I buy a TV and get a remote with it, the remote can be described as free since there was no bill for it, nor was there an option to buy a TV without the remote. Plus if you're poor, the "remote" that is health care really is free. Or if you need a bigger or smaller "remote", your costs don't change.

I don't think anyone is so out of touch to believe that they aren't actually paying for health care. That's not what they mean when they say it's free, they just mean they're not paying for it at the time of need and all the implications that brings with it.
 
commenting on a few fronts, C-section is very popular but has some implications, they essentially cut thru the stomach muscles, recovery takes some time. Doctors love it for the convenience.

I like the Cdn system, it also has challenges and I know people that have gone to the US for MRI and ultrasound to get faster turnarounds. But if you are at need you will get looked after in a Canadian hospital, you may sleep in the hallway for two days before they find you a bed, but you'll get looked after.
 
invictus43 said:
It's important to remember that healthcare isn't "free" in Canada. We all pay for our healthcare via our taxes. I think the average cost per capita in Ontario is around $5k. So your $300/mth premium isn't really that out to lunch as a comparison. I'm not really arguing one way or the other, but we DO pay. I mention this concept to people at work who love our benefits and I always ask them, if they could have the money the corporation pays towards our health benefits in their pockets as cash, would they take that rather than the coverage. It's not an insignificant sum.. But because people don't see it they figure it's free.
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I hear ya there. A big however, I feel a heck of a lot better knowing that EVERYONE is entitled to care here in this great country. For a country that is SO patriotic they could care less about their fellow citizens.
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