Covid economy non real estate

[mimico_polak]

Wait, is it legally binding to do what @crankcall said and split via percentage? Cause that was the plan anyway lol

Cause in that case, couldn't you just buy out the person who needs the cash? Or take a loan to buy them out?

That depends on the will and the relationship. I've seen siblings go at each others' throats for a few thousand dollars...let alone hundreds of thousands. 50/50 is great, but if the parents favour one kid over the other...well it goes bad fast.

Fun story b/w me and my sis(s):

S: we don't want anything from the 6-plex when mom and dad pass away, keep the whole thing as you do/did all the work
M: OK cool
S: plus that was a deal b/w you and them
M: Great. So today it's worth X, but you're telling me that if it grows in price, and your share is 200, 300, or 500k you don't want a part of it?
S: well let's talk about it when the time comes

Happens all the time. Property is sold, parents and I split the proceeds 50/50 right down the middle.

Should they have passed during the ownership, the official split would be 75/25 in my favour. 50% because I was the half partner, and 50% of the parents' portion.

 

[GreyGhost]

Wait, is it legally binding to do what @crankcall said and split via percentage? Cause that was the plan anyway lol

Cause in that case, couldn't you just buy out the person who needs the cash? Or take a loan to buy them out?

Not always simple to come up with the money. The downside to crazy real estate appreciation is often you cant afford the buyout. Friends got divorced, house had quadrupled in a decade and neither side could afford the buyout. On the upside, they both got a decent downpayment out of it but their kids wanted to keep the house. Parents neighbour died and one of his sisters wanted to buy the house because it was the house she grew up in. Nope, too much money.

 

[Evoex]

@Georg3__ I've mentioned this before and will again but with an added caveat: we'll all repeatedly make the same choice in life, what are you going to sacrifice?

Some brutal adjustments that work for sure:

Do not have children unless your/her parents will help out substantially (time if you have money, money if you have time.)
Have one vehicle at most.
Have a budget and follow it without mercy; people will 100% call you cheap.
Avoid/disengage with any social gathering that is above your budget.
Find a significant other who is at least your income level or higher.
Don't have a wedding (or have one below $10k; average wedding cost is $60k.)
Don't follow your passion; find the most lucrative field you can stay in without completely losing your sanity.
Live with your parents for as long as possible.
Live with multiple households to exponentially increased income.

Doing any of the above will garner jealous fueled hating failures. You also sacrifice your sanity because you'll move against the grain; the higher you climb, the less people you have to sanity check with because you don't rise up by being normal, you rise up by being different. Also happiness is not always there. For example:

In my 20s, I went to social gatherings and only ordered a soft drink because I was following my budget. My friends were already doing Vegas trips (I flopped on this) for strippers and what not. FOMO is real.

I sold my motorcycle; don't think I need to expand on this because this is a site for riders who love riding. I still dream about riding but cut off contact from all close riding friends and refuse to touch a motorcycle because it will reignite the passion, and therefore bleed money.

Most women are gonna fight with you about a wedding, and their friends will gang up on you. Nobody enjoys fighting with their significant other.

Friends my age are now having kids. I'm pretty much forced to make friends with ppl between 20 to 30 now. Knowing you're going the way of a boomer (out of touch w/ reality/society) is not exactly a great feeling.

If you can't stomach what I just wrote, then you are in the best path possible for yourself imo.

Food for thought. If riding is a passion, find a way to enjoy it. Tomorrow is never promised.

 

[Evoex]

To weight in on the house being owned by siblings. This is my current situation.

Father recently passed and sister and I equally inherited. She’s flip flopped on wanting to live there or not. Currently she was already living there so she’ll skip capital gains if we sell. For now she’s set on staying but is very concerned that I might be upset if she sells in a decade for a windfall increase, vs me being bought out now.

I thought about this as my primary goal is to keep her in the house and make sure she’s not calling me in a few years saying “I’m in financial trouble”. I have a far better job and portfolio, so I can live without getting ‘paid’.

I proposed she buy me out at FMV, half up front, say 5 year timetable to pay off the rest. No interest and no payment schedule. In lieu of these terms if she decides to sell down the road I’d be entitled to 30% of the difference between my buyout amount and her selling price.

She was more then happy to agree.

Looking for a lawyer now to draft the paperwork…

 

[油井緋色]

Food for thought. If riding is a passion, find a way to enjoy it. Tomorrow is never promised.

I try not to think about it :')

Now that you guys mention the housing ****....

I have a friend with a sister. Said friend spent years paying off their place after their parents passed. The sister paid nothing. Sister suddenly wants to move countries and demands a 50/50 split. I've suggested to the friend to lawyer up and sink her sister; friend is a very nice person so it's still up in the air.

....the ******* nerve of some ppl though.

 

[mimico_polak]

That’s the proper way to do it as @Evoex says. Rationally and well thought out.

But some siblings would feel entitled to the house because they lived there so they helped out blah blah blah, or you don’t need the money blah blah blah….it’s tough when the relationship isn’t good anyway.

But I would hope my sis and I can deal with it.

Originally it was she gets the house, and we get the cottage and townhouse as the total values were around the same…now…not so much.

 

[Evoex]

I try not to think about it :')

Now that you guys mention the housing ****....

I have a friend with a sister. Said friend spent years paying off their place after their parents passed. The sister paid nothing. Sister suddenly wants to move countries and demands a 50/50 split. I've suggested to the friend to lawyer up and sink her sister; friend is a very nice person so it's still up in the air.

....the ******* nerve of some ppl though.

She’s due her share minus whatever your friend put into the mortgage imo.

Was there an agreement on upkeep at time of possession? The property should have been assessed. I’d start there.

 

[油井緋色]

She’s due her share minus whatever your friend put into the mortgage imo.

Yeah that's my opinion too. 50/50 is ********/freeloading/entitled.

e.g. in my scenario, my fiancee has paid more than I have on our place. If we ever split (knock on wood), she's taking more than me because of this. I'd rather seppuku then ask for 50/50.

 

[mimico_polak]

My wife(W) and I had a chat a few times about divorcing....

W: if we ever get divorced you'll probably take me to the cleaners
M: it's probably the other way around
W: no I'm not like that
M: so if a lawyer tells you that you can get close to 500k (then) or $1M (now) with the house and you don't have to pay much cause I'll be responsible for it...you won't take it?
W: hmmmm
M: oh snap.

 

[crankcall]

The whole don't worry, it will be amicable if we split , I'll help however I can. Percentage that go that way, about 2%. Its all fun and games till somebody calls a lawyer.

Years ago it was considered bad form on any level to do prenups or legal arrangements , today with blended families , people on 2nd-3rd marriages and literally millions of dollars in investments and real estate , anyone that gets involved on any level with someone that's offended to put things to paper, Move on, because if they wont commit now, they wont accomodate later.

Whats that Arabic proverb ? Trust in God, but tie up your camel

 

[GreyGhost]

The whole don't worry, it will be amicable if we split , I'll help however I can. Percentage that go that way, about 2%. Its all fun and games till somebody calls a lawyer.

Years ago it was considered bad form on any level to do prenups or legal arrangements , today with blended families , people on 2nd-3rd marriages and literally millions of dollars in investments and real estate , anyone that gets involved on any level with someone that's offended to put things to paper, Move on, because if they wont commit now, they wont accomodate later.

Whats that Arabic proverb ? Trust in God, but tie up your camel

We talk about RE agents getting lifted far faster than inflation, I assume divorce lawyers are also in the same boat. What's another six figures on the lawyer bill (for each side) when there are millions at stake?

 

[nobbie48]

Not always simple to come up with the money. The downside to crazy real estate appreciation is often you cant afford the buyout. Friends got divorced, house had quadrupled in a decade and neither side could afford the buyout. On the upside, they both got a decent downpayment out of it but their kids wanted to keep the house. Parents neighbour died and one of his sisters wanted to buy the house because it was the house she grew up in. Nope, too much money.

A friend's daughter split with her hubby but neither can afford to buy the other out. Selling the house and splitting the coin doesn't give either of them enough for a down payment so they continue to live under the same roof. Gotta be some tension there.

 

[油井緋色]

We talk about RE agents getting lifted far faster than inflation, I assume divorce lawyers are also in the same boat. What's another six figures on the lawyer bill (for each side) when there are millions at stake?

Anyone know if divorce lawyers swap professions very fast due to moral stress? lol I'm genuinely curious.

 

[GreyGhost]

Anyone know if divorce lawyers swap professions very fast due to moral stress? lol I'm genuinely curious.

Thankfully I don't know many. One I know is a lawyer but functioned more as a mediator and would only take on cases where both parties wanted to get things cleaned up quickly and with minimal pain. If you wanted to fight, they didn't want to be a part of it. They had more than enough work even with limiting their scope. They still got tired of daily sadness. Went back to school for a hands on medical field to bring people relief as a retirement job. Very happy now.

 

[mimico_polak]

A friend's daughter split with her hubby but neither can afford to buy the other out. Selling the house and splitting the coin doesn't give either of them enough for a down payment so they continue to live under the same roof. Gotta be some tension there.

At least they can still live under the same roof...I'd take that over being thrown into a garbage rental.

Hell I'd take the basement if my wife threatened to kick me out. She can have the rest of the house.

Or I'd just move to the cottage and WFH from there. I know my mom would happily take me back!

 

[nobbie48]

Wills and real estate. Take nothing for granted. Expect greed.

Things changed in late 2016 with regards to cap gains. A residence is only cap gain exempt when the owner occupies the place. That ceases when they die.

Someone I know screwed up his life and at 50 YO (Owing people money and we assume a lot) moved back in with his widowed mother and leached off her for over a decade. She didn't want him there but being old country wouldn't throw him out. He may have worked a few months over that whole time. She fed, clothed and housed him, paid his Rx's, paid for another car.

Loans: If you owe someone money it is noncollectable after two years unless there is a judgement or you acknowledge the debt either in word or paying a portion. Then the two year clock resets. When challenged all you say is "I have no debts" He said that a lot.

To dodge people trying to collect he changed her phone system making it awkward for her friends to call her. She often said she felt like she was in jail but, old country, she wouldn't do anything.

As she got older he dragged her to a lawyer and had her change her will. Think as you read the following.

He got a bigger slice but the dagger in the back was he got to live in the house for as long as he wanted. The estate wouldn't get settled for as long as he lived. Until the estate was settled he didn't get anything (Nor did the other heirs) and therefore creditors couldn't go after him.

Since she paid all his bills over the years it was a slam dunk for him to claim dependency.

Fortunately the will got changed back to something bearable, he got the use of the house for five years so he could
get his act together. He contested that and so much money was spent on legal fees that the house had to be sold to pay them. The house had appreciated by 30% but since that was the only income the tax hit was bearable.

The estate had been further diminished by the house getting unneeded upgrades while she was alive so those expenses wouldn't come out of the son's pocket.

A settlement was achieved before things went to court. Going to court meant expensive hearings, disclosures etc and the top estate lawyers couldn't forecast how the dice would roll. Who pays court costs is not written in stone. What used to be is no longer guaranteed.

Gross numbers are misleading. Granny croaks and leaves a $700 K house. Settling takes a few years and the house sells for $1.5 M. The three heirs think they're getting $500 K each. Nope.

It's all hugs and kind words at the funeral, the next day the daggers come out.

 

[nobbie48]

Thankfully I don't know many. One I know is a lawyer but functioned more as a mediator and would only take on cases where both parties wanted to get things cleaned up quickly and with minimal pain. If you wanted to fight, they didn't want to be a part of it. They had more than enough work even with limiting their scope. They still got tired of daily sadness. Went back to school for a hands on medical field to bring people relief as a retirement job. Very happy now.

I know a couple of lawyers personally but they are more corporate. Divorce and estate can be a reptile zoo, greed, back stabbing and revenge. An uncontested divorce with no kids was IIRC $500-$1000. Multiply by 100 or more if it goes nasty. Nasty lawyers are the result of nasty clients.

 

[GreyGhost]

I know a couple of lawyers personally but they are more corporate. Divorce and estate can be a reptile zoo, greed, back stabbing and revenge. An uncontested divorce with no kids was IIRC $500-$1000. Multiply by 100 or more if it goes nasty. Nasty lawyers are the result of nasty clients.

How old are those numbers? I know people that had amicable divorces decades ago using the rapid/agreeable process and they were more than an order of magnitude higher.

 

[油井緋色]

Gross numbers are misleading. Granny croaks and leaves a $700 K house. Settling takes a few years and the house sells for $1.5 M. The three heirs think they're getting $500 K each. Nope.

It's all hugs and kind words at the funeral, the next day the daggers come out.

This is why not everything should be taken care of by the books and probably why I find families with gang roots sometimes more respectable: if one has no honor/dignity, it'll be taught via violence <_<

 

[油井緋色]

I know a couple of lawyers personally but they are more corporate. Divorce and estate can be a reptile zoo, greed, back stabbing and revenge. An uncontested divorce with no kids was IIRC $500-$1000. Multiply by 100 or more if it goes nasty. Nasty lawyers are the result of nasty clients.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3aqq4d

I've had a bit too much work to go through the whole post but holy ****....this legit sounds like a fun job from some the stories.