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Covid booster

I learned many years ago not to argue with people that make no effort to recognize another point of view. Their mindset is to win the argument, not to find out what is right.

Unfortunately I don't have time to get a degree in macro biology so I have to trust others and their logic. So far the logic of masks, distancing and vaccines seem to be working in the short term (2 years). Maybe in a few more years it will turn out to be a mistake, just like putting out every forest fire has created tinder boxes of too many forests.

However a responsible person would not dump the results of their mistake on another person without providing for future compensation. We insure our vehicles so in case of an at-fault the other person gets compensation. I've had two jabs and a third scheduled so I have mitigated future damage to others. If it was a mistake and my head falls off in two more years it doesn't hurt anyone else.

If an anti vaxxer harms others because they made a bad decision how does the injured party collect for damages? Not all anti vaxxers are dirt poor losers but the ones I know personally are. What does one get when the person being sued for damages lives in their mother's basement?

The problem today is largely aesthetics. We judge and hire people based on looks and manner instead of proven ability. There are rare exceptions so the end result is weasels rising to the top. It's very common for a talented person to be a good carpenter, doctor, accountant or biologist. They are happy to just do their job without the BS required for advancement to management. Then there are the less talented who know how to get into the limelight and plagiarize the works of others. We have lost the ability to recognize the weasels. We support and elect them because they look and talk nice, telling us the lies we want to hear.

Few of us are trained to judge our professionals by results. We choose politicians, investment advisors, lawyers and even spouses based on first impressions. I don't know if that extends to picking a heart surgeon out of a line-up. "Candidate four, step forward and turn to the left. You look cool. You can replace my heart valves."
I love a good rant!

I agree there are fancy who faked it to make it, I'm a little more optimistic that over time those folks wash out.

But I hear you. I remember working at a big bank, you still see a lot of that in middle management in large companies. Many can get to middle management quickly on "fake if till you make it", but then they get stuck as people managers following an instruction book for the rest of their life. Talk to anyone who works in a bank or ins Co, they're full of people that had a meteoric rise to middle management followed by 30 years of stagnation at that level.
 
One curse of higher education is that it creates a communication gap between the the gownies and the townies. The less educated paraphrase things that are further paraphrased until the message is lost. Bleach and light bulbs.

The average person just wants the Cole's Notes version and many don't have the brain power to grasp things at the PhD level. Just in basic communications people commonly use the wrong words or improperly understand them. Minute vs moment, how long is indefinitely, effect vs affect, define promise, how big is huge, Brand new in box only used once.
I think education's biggest curse is lack of diversity. A narrow range of political and social views is protected and promoted - it in no way reflects the society's political or ideological mix.

The culture ferments a bit of a snobbish attitude, and a strong disdain and intolerance toward opposing views.
 
I'm sure most of us could care less about the UK - the NHS is not exactly shining examples of public health.
To be fair to the NHS, it hasn't done too badly considering the various Conservative governments in recent decades have vacillated between apathy and hostility. In particular, the current government has strong connections to private US health profiteers hungry for unfettered access to a huge market. Brexit and covid have only exacerbated the issue, with unabashed cronyism that makes the current Canadian Liberals look like angels by comparison, and huge labour shortages caused by a sudden loss of access to continental Europe's lower paid workers.

(Fortunately for the Tories, the Labour party is a total disaster, beset by infighting, a total inability to go on the offensive, and a political strategy that seems to mostly involve sitting on the sidelines to watch the dumpster fire, hoping that voters eventually move to Labour by default. Naturally, this isn't working, and the NHS is struggling as a result. The Liberal Democrats recently won a byelection in a staunchly Conservative seat, suggesting that voters want change, but not change to Labour in its current form.)

All that derails aside, I think we can learn a lot from data coming from the UK, as they have similar demographics, a somewhat similar climate, and similar attitudes toward vaccination etc. Where things differ is the governmental response, which have variously been much more lax and more strict on lockdowns, desiring to stay hands off until things become catastrophic, at which point they shut down almost entirely.

They also have a much higher percentage of initial Astra-Zeneca vaccine uptake, which can be watched when we start to see meaningful hospitalization and death numbers develop as Omicron establishes itself as the dominant strain.
 
I think education's biggest curse is lack of diversity. A narrow range of political and social views is protected and promoted - it in no way reflects the society's political or ideological mix.

The culture ferments a bit of a snobbish attitude, and a strong disdain and intolerance toward opposing views.

Fair points. Academia tends to attract a few weird sorts. Some very anti-social types that just want to sit for 20 hours a day in an office surrounded by mouldy books pumping out article after article no one reads. Some people that don’t know how to/never want to interact with people. Wait…no those are programmers. Just joking. We have a broad range of people…some absolute snobs, some that have gone so far up their own ******** they approximate turtles for sure. In general most are just normal. Mostly left leaning but not on the communist side, some right leaning.

It’s not the idealogical mind control arena people tend to paint it as though.
 
To be fair to the NHS, it hasn't done too badly considering the various Conservative governments in recent decades have vacillated between apathy and hostility. In particular, the current government has strong connections to private US health profiteers hungry for unfettered access to a huge market. Brexit and covid have only exacerbated the issue, with unabashed cronyism that makes the current Canadian Liberals look like angels by comparison, and huge labour shortages caused by a sudden loss of access to continental Europe's lower paid workers.

(Fortunately for the Tories, the Labour party is a total disaster, beset by infighting, a total inability to go on the offensive, and a political strategy that seems to mostly involve sitting on the sidelines to watch the dumpster fire, hoping that voters eventually move to Labour by default. Naturally, this isn't working, and the NHS is struggling as a result. The Liberal Democrats recently won a byelection in a staunchly Conservative seat, suggesting that voters want change, but not change to Labour in its current form.)

All that derails aside, I think we can learn a lot from data coming from the UK, as they have similar demographics, a somewhat similar climate, and similar attitudes toward vaccination etc. Where things differ is the governmental response, which have variously been much more lax and more strict on lockdowns, desiring to stay hands off until things become catastrophic, at which point they shut down almost entirely.

They also have a much higher percentage of initial Astra-Zeneca vaccine uptake, which can be watched when we start to see meaningful hospitalization and death numbers develop as Omicron establishes itself as the dominant strain.

Nearly everything that has happened in the UK mirrors what is happening here several weeks later. The spike in numbers due to unvaccinated school age children ripped through the UK during their half term. The same thing happened here not long after. It’s really useful to see real time case studies like this.
 
Fair points. Academia tends to attract a few weird sorts. Some very anti-social types that just want to sit for 20 hours a day in an office surrounded by mouldy books pumping out article after article no one reads. Some people that don’t know how to/never want to interact with people. Wait…no those are programmers. Just joking. We have a broad range of people…some absolute snobs, some that have gone so far up their own ******** they approximate turtles for sure. In general most are just normal. Mostly left leaning but not on the communist side, some right leaning.

It’s not the idealogical mind control arena people tend to paint it as though.
Lack of diversity is not just a problem with higher ed, maybe a bigger a challenge in public schools where developing minds are absorbing rather than investigating ideology.

If most are left leaning, how do you think that influences students?
 
Lack of diversity is not just a problem with higher ed, maybe a bigger a challenge in public schools where developing minds are absorbing rather than investigating ideology.

If most are left leaning, how do you think that influences students?

Most of the country is slightly left leaning by population so the student demographic is pretty representative. Actually ours may even skew a little more to the right. Our business school balances everything else out. The problem is you only hear from the loudest parts of the fringe and unfortunately they feel like they have a lot to say. They aren’t always welcomed with opened arms by the rest though I can tell you that. The real issues are the policies that higher education establishments enact and, since they want to (a) play it safe and (b) offend as few potential donors/students as possible those are inevitably ones that lean very left. Then people see those policies and automatically think “that’s a hotbed of socialism”. It isn’t.
 
Most of the country is slightly left leaning by population so the student demographic is pretty representative. Actually ours may even skew a little more to the right. Our business school balances everything else out. The problem is you only hear from the loudest parts of the fringe and unfortunately they feel like they have a lot to say. They aren’t always welcomed with opened arms by the rest though I can tell you that. The real issues are the policies that higher education establishments enact and, since they want to (a) play it safe and (b) offend as few potential donors/students as possible those are inevitably ones that lean very left. Then people see those policies and automatically think “that’s a hotbed of socialism”. It isn’t.
I don't think the student demographic is an issue, they are forming. They go thru 12 years of hard right grade school then a few more post secondary. Might explain why things lean to the left.

Perhaps biz faculty lean a little further right, but from what I've seen this doesn't seem to be the case.

I guess the telling thing is time. Liberals have little trouble appealing to young voters, perhaps 20 years influenced by liberal academia. Over time many continue evaluating and things balance out a bit.
 
I genuinely do not think everyone should get vaccinated and here's why:
The vaccine does not make anyone impervious to the virus, it also does not prevent a person from spreading the virus. Two points I'm sure we can all agree on, correct? What the vaccine does do is lessen the effects of the virus and to some degree lessen the chances of getting the virus (recent numbers dictate). If you look at the age ranges, severity of outcome and probability of death increase with age, this has been known since it broke in Italy in Jan/Feb 2020. Vaccinating (nearly) everyone creates the problem that younger and/or healthier people that would have gotten mildly sick without the vaccine now become spreaders without any symptoms. Before vaccines were available they may have gone three days asymptomatic and then stayed at home for a week, now they can go five or eight days with no downtime. Vaccinating can ironically increase the Ro. I firmly understand this will be an unpopular view here, but it is almost identical to people that don't feel pain. Sounds great until you find out that we need pain to survive. People that don't feel pain are all dead by the age of 30. Before anyone assumes I'm saying noone should get vaccinated let me make this very clear. People that are at an elevated risk of dying from this should choose to be vaccinated, no question. Whether it's age, or comorbidities that are their deciding factors, I completely support them.

Secondly, since we don't and can't have a firm grasp on what the long term effects of the vaccine are, I don't see the benefit of vaccination, for someone who's most likely outcome without vaccination is the sniffles. Let's assume in 15 years time it is discovered there is a seious side effect to this vaccine. The unhealthy that probably didn't have 15 years left under the best circumstances benefited greatly from the vaccine. However, the 13 year old that is now 28 may have to live the next 50 years with whatever potential side effects may come. The cure could be worse than the disease.

Lastly, as much as many here don't agree with Trackrats views, he brought up an excellent point. I have yet to hear an unvaccinated person claim that if you get vaccinated and end up with myocarditis you should be denied healthcare. Even on this, a motorcycle forum of all the hypocritical places, I've read members saying that unvaccinated don't deserve healthcare if they get covid. That is no different than a car driver claiming the motorcyclist they hit doesn't deserve an ambulance because they chose to ride a motorcycle.

To be honest, the dive society has taken scares me way more than the virus that caused it.
 
I genuinely do not think everyone should get vaccinated and here's why:
The vaccine does not make anyone impervious to the virus, it also does not prevent a person from spreading the virus. Two points I'm sure we can all agree on, correct? What the vaccine does do is lessen the effects of the virus and to some degree lessen the chances of getting the virus (recent numbers dictate). If you look at the age ranges, severity of outcome and probability of death increase with age, this has been known since it broke in Italy in Jan/Feb 2020. Vaccinating (nearly) everyone creates the problem that younger and/or healthier people that would have gotten mildly sick without the vaccine now become spreaders without any symptoms. Before vaccines were available they may have gone three days asymptomatic and then stayed at home for a week, now they can go five or eight days with no downtime. Vaccinating can ironically increase the Ro. I firmly understand this will be an unpopular view here, but it is almost identical to people that don't feel pain. Sounds great until you find out that we need pain to survive. People that don't feel pain are all dead by the age of 30. Before anyone assumes I'm saying noone should get vaccinated let me make this very clear. People that are at an elevated risk of dying from this should choose to be vaccinated, no question. Whether it's age, or comorbidities that are their deciding factors, I completely support them.

Secondly, since we don't and can't have a firm grasp on what the long term effects of the vaccine are, I don't see the benefit of vaccination, for someone who's most likely outcome without vaccination is the sniffles. Let's assume in 15 years time it is discovered there is a seious side effect to this vaccine. The unhealthy that probably didn't have 15 years left under the best circumstances benefited greatly from the vaccine. However, the 13 year old that is now 28 may have to live the next 50 years with whatever potential side effects may come. The cure could be worse than the disease.

Lastly, as much as many here don't agree with Trackrats views, he brought up an excellent point. I have yet to hear an unvaccinated person claim that if you get vaccinated and end up with myocarditis you should be denied healthcare. Even on this, a motorcycle forum of all the hypocritical places, I've read members saying that unvaccinated don't deserve healthcare if they get covid. That is no different than a car driver claiming the motorcyclist they hit doesn't deserve an ambulance because they chose to ride a motorcycle.

To be honest, the dive society has taken scares me way more than the virus that caused it.
Good post. If you are looking at long-term unknowns, we also dont know of long-term consequences of getting covid nor whether vaccination changes those (for better or worse).
 
I genuinely do not think everyone should get vaccinated and here's why:
The vaccine does not make anyone impervious to the virus, it also does not prevent a person from spreading the virus. Two points I'm sure we can all agree on, correct? What the vaccine does do is lessen the effects of the virus and to some degree lessen the chances of getting the virus (recent numbers dictate). If you look at the age ranges, severity of outcome and probability of death increase with age, this has been known since it broke in Italy in Jan/Feb 2020. Vaccinating (nearly) everyone creates the problem that younger and/or healthier people that would have gotten mildly sick without the vaccine now become spreaders without any symptoms. Before vaccines were available they may have gone three days asymptomatic and then stayed at home for a week, now they can go five or eight days with no downtime. Vaccinating can ironically increase the Ro. I firmly understand this will be an unpopular view here, but it is almost identical to people that don't feel pain. Sounds great until you find out that we need pain to survive. People that don't feel pain are all dead by the age of 30. Before anyone assumes I'm saying noone should get vaccinated let me make this very clear. People that are at an elevated risk of dying from this should choose to be vaccinated, no question. Whether it's age, or comorbidities that are their deciding factors, I completely support them.

Secondly, since we don't and can't have a firm grasp on what the long term effects of the vaccine are, I don't see the benefit of vaccination, for someone who's most likely outcome without vaccination is the sniffles. Let's assume in 15 years time it is discovered there is a seious side effect to this vaccine. The unhealthy that probably didn't have 15 years left under the best circumstances benefited greatly from the vaccine. However, the 13 year old that is now 28 may have to live the next 50 years with whatever potential side effects may come. The cure could be worse than the disease.

Lastly, as much as many here don't agree with Trackrats views, he brought up an excellent point. I have yet to hear an unvaccinated person claim that if you get vaccinated and end up with myocarditis you should be denied healthcare. Even on this, a motorcycle forum of all the hypocritical places, I've read members saying that unvaccinated don't deserve healthcare if they get covid. That is no different than a car driver claiming the motorcyclist they hit doesn't deserve an ambulance because they chose to ride a motorcycle.

To be honest, the dive society has taken scares me way more than the virus that caused it.

Unfortunately and respectfully, you missed something out. The longer a virus resides at a certain level inside a host the more chance you have of the virus mutating. There’s a plausible theory that Omicron came about from another strain residing in unvaccinated HIV patients with compromised immune systems at a level where mutations could occur more readily. Other mutations like delta arrived like this too. Vaccines cut down on viral load. That’s why the vaccinated don’t end up in hospital as much even with infections. Enhanced viral load leads to greater chance of mutation to something we may not be able to deal with.

Mutation is a chance occurrence but the chance is greatly amplified by time in host and number of viral particles. Omicron disregards to some extent the protection that previously infected (by say Delta) people may have had against the strain that infected them.

Not getting vaccinated increases the number of people where an enhanced viral load can occur. Maybe you can see where this is going.

It’s not really a personal choice, it’s about as selfish a choice as you can get. Get vaccinated.
 
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I genuinely do not think everyone should get vaccinated and here's why:
The vaccine does not make anyone impervious to the virus, it also does not prevent a person from spreading the virus. Two points I'm sure we can all agree on, correct? What the vaccine does do is lessen the effects of the virus and to some degree lessen the chances of getting the virus (recent numbers dictate). If you look at the age ranges, severity of outcome and probability of death increase with age, this has been known since it broke in Italy in Jan/Feb 2020. Vaccinating (nearly) everyone creates the problem that younger and/or healthier people that would have gotten mildly sick without the vaccine now become spreaders without any symptoms. Before vaccines were available they may have gone three days asymptomatic and then stayed at home for a week, now they can go five or eight days with no downtime. Vaccinating can ironically increase the Ro. I firmly understand this will be an unpopular view here, but it is almost identical to people that don't feel pain. Sounds great until you find out that we need pain to survive. People that don't feel pain are all dead by the age of 30. Before anyone assumes I'm saying noone should get vaccinated let me make this very clear. People that are at an elevated risk of dying from this should choose to be vaccinated, no question. Whether it's age, or comorbidities that are their deciding factors, I completely support them.

Secondly, since we don't and can't have a firm grasp on what the long term effects of the vaccine are, I don't see the benefit of vaccination, for someone who's most likely outcome without vaccination is the sniffles. Let's assume in 15 years time it is discovered there is a seious side effect to this vaccine. The unhealthy that probably didn't have 15 years left under the best circumstances benefited greatly from the vaccine. However, the 13 year old that is now 28 may have to live the next 50 years with whatever potential side effects may come. The cure could be worse than the disease.

Lastly, as much as many here don't agree with Trackrats views, he brought up an excellent point. I have yet to hear an unvaccinated person claim that if you get vaccinated and end up with myocarditis you should be denied healthcare. Even on this, a motorcycle forum of all the hypocritical places, I've read members saying that unvaccinated don't deserve healthcare if they get covid. That is no different than a car driver claiming the motorcyclist they hit doesn't deserve an ambulance because they chose to ride a motorcycle.

To be honest, the dive society has taken scares me way more than the virus that caused it.

Oversimplified, the vaccine is more or less a way of delivering a certain string of amino acids linked together by bonds that the acids in your stomach would break down if it was a pill. This is one of the reasons it’s injected into muscle so that it can hang around long enough for the body to learn to “recognize” what this kind of string looks like (the spike protein) and develop antibodies to that string. It eventually (quite quickly) breaks down to things you already have in your body and is excreted. The new vaccines use a new encapsulation system to deliver this fragile active component. It’s actually the encapsulation that is nearly as important as the vaccine active component technology.


Just as an aside, it’s the word “nanotechnology”that led some idiots to claim all the 5G nonsense. Just because they didn’t understand the range of the word being used.

Vaccine side effects usually are of the reasonably instant and anaphylactic kind if there are any. They aren’t like “drugs” which usually break down into non “natural” compounds before being excreted. It’s actually very rare for vaccines to have long lasting side effects. The side effects from the COVID-19 vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer are mainly allergic reactions to the compounds that are used to encapsulate the MRNA, however, those compounds have also undergone their own testing for toxicity etc.. With the now 8.79 BILLION shots that have been given you’d expect an avalanche of hospital beds filled with the sick from all these “numerous” side effects. If you have those stats….I haven’t seen them. Neither have the doctors. Neither have the nurses.

 
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..and there’s this…


If proven what this shows is a phenomenon called “super immunity” from breakthrough infections AFTER vaccination. 1000% more effective antibodies against multiple variants of the COVID-19 virus.
 
@jc100 I read that somewhere else too recently, although in an easier format to understand LOL...so for those of us who are vaccinated AND get a breakthrough infection after the fact, their immunity is much better than with a booster shot is the way I understood it...
 
@jc100 I read that somewhere else too recently, although in an easier format to understand LOL...so for those of us who are vaccinated AND get a breakthrough infection after the fact, their immunity is much better than with a booster shot is the way I understood it...
Yes-ish. Your booster is part of the vaccination schedule though!


Still early. These are only initial results and they need to be replicated by multiple other groups. But, if proven, this is probably how we get out of this.

Unfortunately it’s going to leave the anti-vax crowd throwing more tantrums because if proven, you’ll likely see even more strict policy on vaxxed vs unvaxxed.
 
I don’t argue with actual scientists, coach my dentist , nor did I do my own vasectomy.
Sometimes you just have to trust .


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Bleeping vasectomy doctor. I would have done better myself. I wasn't frozen. I told him I wasn't frozen. He got ****** when I accidentally kicked him when he cut me and I wasn't frozen.
 

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