COVID and the housing market

[nobbie48]

I like watches with stories. Monetary value is less important imo. What is the watch?

Cardinal battery analogue with date. He was the most gracious person I've ever met. When you visited him the visit was all about you and what you wanted to talk about. You got the most comfortable seat.

I wanted to ask his daughter for a low / no value personal item as a reminder, a tie or something but without asking, she gave me his watch.

 

[nobbie48]

A developer in a small town an hour west has some of the locals in a snit. He's building detached houses with two master bedrooms. Some locals see it attracting "Those" people from Mississauga.

So having a multi generational home that minimizes LTC and daycare issues is bad?

 

[GreyGhost]

Cardinal battery analogue with date. He was the most gracious person I've ever met. When you visited him the visit was all about you and what you wanted to talk about. You got the most comfortable seat.

I wanted to ask his daughter for a low / no value personal item as a reminder, a tie or something but without asking, she gave me his watch.

Great story. Thanks for sharing.

 

[GreyGhost]

A developer in a small town an hour west has some of the locals in a snit. He's building detached houses with two master bedrooms. Some locals see it attracting "Those" people from Mississauga.

So having a multi generational home that minimizes LTC and daycare issues is bad?

"primary" bedrooms. Master is now derogatory. ugh.

As houses keep growing in square footage, more and more bedrooms are including ensuite and wic. You need to use up all the space somehow.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

So the 35k is a one time feee?

That makes more sense ..

Still yikes, 2 spots is almost another down payment

 

[GreyGhost]

View attachment 52226

So the 35k is a one time feee?

That makes more sense ..

Still yikes, 2 spots is almost another down payment

One time 35K per spot. If you are trying to buy at the cheap end (eg one bedroom) don't be surprised if they won't allow you to buy more than one spot. Underground spots cost a fortune to build and are very space inefficient in most buildings (small building footprint means a large percentage of every parking floor is a road).

EDIT:
If the plan is to use the condo to climb the property ladder, I'm not convinced that works. I'd rather buy a freehold something in a place I could afford and rent that out. Paying ~550K for 500 sq ft plus condo fees of $300+ a month (escalating quickly) makes it really hard to trade up. Hell, it makes it hard to afford today yet alone tomorrow. $300 a month would roughly service another 60K of mortgage. If the fees rise quickly they both deplete your cashflow and suppress the value of the condo as new buyers have less to spend on mortgages.

Emerald condos just more than doubled their fees.

Sudden 113 per cent spike in Toronto condo fees sparks nasty dispute and threats

When condo fees more than doubled in a Toronto building, it sparked a nasty dispute involving legal threats, frightening e-mails, and accusations of a conspiracy, according to a new Ontario Superior Court judgment.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

"The issue of suddenly rising condo fees is not limited to that building. An Ontario Auditor-General's report in 2020 found many developers had sold units using understated amounts for condo fees in their initial budgets — and didn't include expected expenses.

A survey in the report found about half of condo boards saw their fees go up by up to 30 per cent. Around four in 10 boards saw it increase more than that. One in 10 didn't know."

 

[backmarkerducati]

The $35K is the cost to buy the spot.... Also keep in mind each spot will have additional condo fees and PT per month.

Back when I was in my condo the owned parting spot cost $35 in condo fees per month. My guess, closer to 50 or 60 now.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

Seems worse than renting

 

[GreyGhost]

Seems worse than renting

Condo buys you some housing stability as you have more than 61 days to get out. I'm not convinced they buy a lot of financial stability as paying >$1000 a month in condo fees or getting a five or six figure special assessment could drive you out financially.

I can't remember the exact address but there used to be some condo towns in Malton that were shockingly cheap. When freehold towns were $300K+, these were ~$100K. Buildings looked fine. Not the best neighborhood but far from the worst. Then you see condo fees of ~$1000/mo. What the everloving ^*&^*^*&^ did they do to get in that position? Condo towns should be <<$100/mo. It was an interesting opportunity for someone with capital to try to collect 51% of the units, use their majority to get the issues fixed that were driving the crazy fees, reduce the fees and triple the value of all of their dwellings.

 

[shanekingsley]

I came here to read about house prices and was reminded to replace all the batteries in my watches. None of them have been worn in 3 years and I know next to nothing about watches.
One is a Longines Opposition Chronograph that I was given around 20 years ago from a good buddy who used to work at Swatch and got all kinds of nice watches for free or cheap. I noticed him wearing it one day and said that's a cool watch and he took it off and just gave it to me. It has this really cool invisible clasp so the band looks more like a steel bracelet. Not sure if that's a common thing. However my favourite watch is a simple WeWood Kappa Army watch that my wife gave me for my 40th.


That said, our condo mortgage is coming up for renewal. We were supposed to think about taking equity out and doing something with it, but never got around to doing that and don't have enough time to start the paperwork. So 1yr mortgage it is and hopefully we will remember next year to do something. And for what it's worth, we bought a parking spot for $10k in 2008 and rent it out for $150/month. Maintenance fees are ~$500/month ($350 in 2008) which are pretty decent for having a big gym, pool and frequent upgrades to the building. I think only 2 special assessments so far totalling $4k in 13 years.

And where is that condo that is $1065/sqft?

 

[timtune]

One time 35K per spot. If you are trying to buy at the cheap end (eg one bedroom) don't be surprised if they won't allow you to buy more than one spot. Underground spots cost a fortune to build and are very space inefficient in most buildings (small building footprint means a large percentage of every parking floor is a road).

EDIT:
If the plan is to use the condo to climb the property ladder, I'm not convinced that works. I'd rather buy a freehold something in a place I could afford and rent that out. Paying ~550K for 500 sq ft plus condo fees of $300+ a month (escalating quickly) makes it really hard to trade up. Hell, it makes it hard to afford today yet alone tomorrow. $300 a month would roughly service another 60K of mortgage. If the fees rise quickly they both deplete your cashflow and suppress the value of the condo as new buyers have less to spend on mortgages.

Emerald condos just more than doubled their fees.

Sudden 113 per cent spike in Toronto condo fees sparks nasty dispute and threats

When condo fees more than doubled in a Toronto building, it sparked a nasty dispute involving legal threats, frightening e-mails, and accusations of a conspiracy, according to a new Ontario Superior Court judgment.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

"The issue of suddenly rising condo fees is not limited to that building. An Ontario Auditor-General's report in 2020 found many developers had sold units using understated amounts for condo fees in their initial budgets — and didn't include expected expenses.

A survey in the report found about half of condo boards saw their fees go up by up to 30 per cent. Around four in 10 boards saw it increase more than that. One in 10 didn't know."

The condo worked for me. Bought for $70,000 in 2012. I put $20,000 down and the rent has fully carried it. They go for $250,000 - $300,000 now. Maintenance fees are maybe 300 a month. No special assessments.

 

[GreyGhost]

The condo worked for me. Bought for $70,000 in 2012. I put $20,000 down and the rent has fully carried it. They go for $250,000 - $300,000 now. Maintenance fees are maybe 300 a month. No special assessments.

In the past, I agree. With the current math, I have significant doubts. Rent doesnt remotely carry most, if you are buying new build condo fees seem to be a teaser rate, etc.

 

[mimico_polak]

In the past, I agree. With the current math, I have significant doubts. Rent doesnt remotely carry most, if you are buying new build condo fees seem to be a teaser rate, etc.

100% they are teaser rates. New condo build has minimal expenses.

After 1-2 years, things start breaking down, and the condo board is now formed and $ needs to be brought in quickly to have a reserve fund, operating fund, etc as per legislation.

My cousin had his raise on Year 2 about 30-40% on a brand new build (10 years ago).

 

[GreyGhost]

100% they are teaser rates. New condo build has minimal expenses.

After 1-2 years, things start breaking down, and the condo board is now formed and $ needs to be brought in quickly to have a reserve fund, operating fund, etc as per legislation.

My cousin had his raise on Year 2 about 30-40% on a brand new build (10 years ago).

It's really interesting watching the game play out. Old condo buildings have large units, high condo fees and low price per sq ft (to buy). Newish builds have small units, low condo fees and high cost per sq ft to buy. Prices on the older units are substantially depressed by the condo fees. The tens of thousands buying new condos believe that will never happen to them. Of course it will, maintenance and replacing floor finishes on a schedule every x years costs a bleeping fortune.

 

[mimico_polak]

It's really interesting watching the game play out. Old condo buildings have large units, high condo fees and low price per sq ft (to buy). Newish builds have small units, low condo fees and high cost per sq ft to buy. Prices on the older units are substantially depressed by the condo fees. The tens of thousands buying new condos believe that will never happen to them. Of course it will, maintenance and replacing floor finishes on a schedule every x years costs a bleeping fortune.

I think windows falling out of the newer condo buildings will be very expensive to fix/replace in the very near future.

Sure....floor to ceiling windows are great...until they fall out from the constant contraction and expansion and 'build it faster' attitudes.

It's fun listening to my buddies talk about the new builds....and if anyone is looking to buy the new houses/towns in Barrie (along Hwy 27) or in Elmvale...don't. Built NOT to last.

 

[GreyGhost]

It's fun listening to my buddies talk about the new builds....and if anyone is looking to buy the new houses/towns in Barrie (along Hwy 27) or in Elmvale...don't. Built NOT to last.

That's almost all new builds. Built to last a couple years and clear tsrion warranty. I have talked with builders that expect all windows and shingles will be replaces inside of a decade. Take that environment. Pay 10% more now and double the lifespan or cheap and and to the bin it goes.

 

[mimico_polak]

That's almost all new builds. Built to last a couple years and clear station warranty. I have talked with builders that expect all windows and shingles will be replaces inside of a decade. Take that environment. Pay 10% more now and double the lifespan or cheap and and to the bin it goes.

I'm sure you know the houses I'm talking about...just south of you. Hwy 27 where the golf course used to be...massive development there. Monster houses but built horribly (apparently).

 

[Mikedezo44]

My parents live on a 4 year old private street with about 20 detached homes on it and they have a board. When the builder sold the homes they had $150 a month fee he said that more than covered everything (garbage, snow plow, sprinklers, landscaping) ... that didn't last long, up to $300 now. Always new projects the board wants to do like landscaping the entranceway to the street etc... highly doubtful they will ever go back down once it's all completed. Funny many neighbors agree with my dad how they waste money and agree with a couple other ideas when he talks to them on the driveway but no one voted him in last year. I guess can't complain too much when the homes have doubled in value in 4 years though. Can't lose sleep over it.

 

[GreyGhost]

My parents live on a 4 year old private street with about 20 detached homes on it and they have a board. When the builder sold the homes they had $150 a month fee he said that more than covered everything (garbage, snow plow, sprinklers, landscaping) ... that didn't last long, up to $300 now. Always new projects the board wants to do like landscaping the entranceway to the street etc... highly doubtful they will ever go back down once it's all completed. Funny many neighbors agree with my dad how they waste money and agree with a couple other ideas when he talks to them on the driveway but no one voted him in last year. I guess can't complain too much when the homes have doubled in value in 4 years though. Can't lose sleep over it.

I know of an commercial ondo that needed to redo all concrete and asphalt and the flat roof inside of a decade. Code calls for 3" of gravel below the concrete, inspected and signed off. When the heaved slabs were taken out, calling it one layer of stones would be an optimistic interpretation. Basically sprinkled. Company that built the building was dissolved (builder is still cranking out garbage under other names). Your parents need to get the reserve fund cooking as that road will be six figures.

 

[nobbie48]

One time 35K per spot. If you are trying to buy at the cheap end (eg one bedroom) don't be surprised if they won't allow you to buy more than one spot. Underground spots cost a fortune to build and are very space inefficient in most buildings (small building footprint means a large percentage of every parking floor is a road).

EDIT:
If the plan is to use the condo to climb the property ladder, I'm not convinced that works. I'd rather buy a freehold something in a place I could afford and rent that out. Paying ~550K for 500 sq ft plus condo fees of $300+ a month (escalating quickly) makes it really hard to trade up. Hell, it makes it hard to afford today yet alone tomorrow. $300 a month would roughly service another 60K of mortgage. If the fees rise quickly they both deplete your cashflow and suppress the value of the condo as new buyers have less to spend on mortgages.

Emerald condos just more than doubled their fees.

Sudden 113 per cent spike in Toronto condo fees sparks nasty dispute and threats

When condo fees more than doubled in a Toronto building, it sparked a nasty dispute involving legal threats, frightening e-mails, and accusations of a conspiracy, according to a new Ontario Superior Court judgment.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

"The issue of suddenly rising condo fees is not limited to that building. An Ontario Auditor-General's report in 2020 found many developers had sold units using understated amounts for condo fees in their initial budgets — and didn't include expected expenses.

A survey in the report found about half of condo boards saw their fees go up by up to 30 per cent. Around four in 10 boards saw it increase more than that. One in 10 didn't know."

Condo developers want to make as much as possible and that comes from having as many units as possible.

Example 1) A condo on Yonge has a huge heated driveway, three times the normal. The ramps are failing due to poor concrete practices and what appear to be site issues at the time of construction. I'd guess the replacement to be a quarter million and there are only 20 units. Typically a large building will have hundreds of units to share a much smaller bill.

Example 2) A condo has no place to push snow so the ramp and driveway to it is fully heated, twice as much as would be needed if a bit of space was left for piling snow. There is no visitor parking and there is only one parking spot per unit. Anyone else parks down the street in public parking. Maximum use of site for units. NO motorcycle parking.

Example 3) A developer tore down a number of houses to build a high rise condo. They successfully argued that since house visitors could park on the street the street parking spots should be counted as visitor parking spots for the condo. The crap hit the fan when the condo wanted to have the street spots be made exclusively for the condo. There were businesses across the street that needed the spots for the customers.

And the beat goes on...

Few buyers have the ability to see the problems.

A board member is a lot like a politician. No one wants a stodgy old bean counter. They end up with dream chasers that want to spend on frills rather than the bones of the building.