could be another Ferguson Missouri ?

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I don't have any issue the the cops shooting if they think there's a situation. I have a problem with any attempts to cover up or justify their action if not straightforward. If they pulled up and the kid reached and they fired, fine. If they now say they issued commands in the space of 1.5 seconds and they didn't...another story. They could have issued commands while the car was rolling up, but without more video, we can't tell.
 
Distance is your friend when dealing with an aggressor. The mistake happened when they stopped the car less than 10' from the kid, the outcome was basically decided at that point. If they had stopped 100' back, there would have been more time to evaluate and control the situation. As it was, hopping out shooting is the only way to be sure that you win.
 
Pretty stupid to pull up so close, but Im not a cop and I don't know their procedures.

With that said, I'm pretty confident he wouldn't have been shot if he didn't reach for the gun. Perhaps this was just a dumb mistake by the kid, and he was in a frenzy or something.. maybe even rushed to get rid of the gun or show them its a fake, who knows. But to expect a cop to gamble his life on that fact is asking too much.
 
LoneRonin said:
The cops are ****ing pussies though.
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The cops went straight into a situation they understood to be a man with a gun threatening people. Pussies? No.

LoneRonin said:
They could have parked up out of range, take cover behind the car, draw their weapons and yell at the kid to drop it...
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What's "out of range"? 50 yards? 100? With how many civilians between them and the gunman? How many doorways and sidestreets where somebody could walk into the middle of it unknowingly? How many potential casualties? And if they're "out of range" of his weapon, then presumably he is out of range of theirs. They now have no defense or offense, no way to stop him from shooting innocent people.

It's always easy to second guess someone from the comfort and safety of a computer and not encumbered by facts or training.
 
Imagine someone standing on the sidewalk in front of their house with a rifle. They haven't fired it or threatened anyone. But just standing there would be cause for concern or even alarm. Mental situation unknown. Rifle real or fake unknown. Cops receive call. How to respond? Come to screeching stop right beside rifle holder? Really? Anyway, gun culture is awesome, we should have more of it here. How else are you going to protect yourself?
 
CanadianBiker said:
The cops went straight into a situation they understood to be a man with a gun threatening people. Pussies? No.



What's "out of range"? 50 yards? 100? With how many civilians between them and the gunman? How many doorways and sidestreets where somebody could walk into the middle of it unknowingly? How many potential casualties? And if they're "out of range" of his weapon, then presumably he is out of range of theirs. They now have no defense or offense, no way to stop him from shooting innocent people.

It's always easy to second guess someone from the comfort and safety of a computer and not encumbered by facts or training.
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lol...you're funny. They ran up on a ****ing KID, not some crazed crackhead. The pig's job is not to go into a situation guns blazing, especially not these patrol *******. This isn't ****ing Iraq where you just shoot anyone carrying anything other than a stick and not give two ****s.

yea, 50ft would be good...who cares if they're out of range, they can still yell and they're not supposed to be instigating a gunfight anyways, if it comes down to it that's what they're trained for. It's two grown trained men vs a kid and it would quickly be apparent his gun isn't real. Even if it is, that's what they signed up for. It's similar to the risk we take of cagers running us over...I wish I could chase down and beat the **** out of everyone who almost killed me and not get arrested for it.

They have no offence or defence?? They have a ****ing car which they could use for cover or to drive up and close in. When a rider gets hits it's a 2 ton weapon, when it comes to using it as cover or an actual weapon you guys call them defenceless and say its ****ing Hollywood...

You must be a cop or a real dick rider...like the guys here talking **** to me for stepping up and stopping an *** whooping of a defenceless poor bastard with a shovel and plumbing pipe.
 
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Riceburner said:
I don't have any issue the the cops shooting if they think there's a situation. I have a problem with any attempts to cover up or justify their action if not straightforward. If they pulled up and the kid reached and they fired, fine. If they now say they issued commands in the space of 1.5 seconds and they didn't...another story. They could have issued commands while the car was rolling up, but without more video, we can't tell.
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How slow do you talk? I can see how you can yell a command three times while drawing your sidearm and exiting the car. As the car was coming to a stop, he's reaching. Reaching almost always gets a gun drawn on you by the cops, combine that with prior knowledge about a gun and menacing I wouldn't be waiting for it to be pointed at me before taking action.

I have a BB gun glock 17 and a real glock 17. You know what the differences are? A smaller barrel and a seam in the backstrap. They even weigh almost the same.
 
If you are retard enough to point a firearm at innocent people, fake or not, you deserve to die.
Kids are a different story. Do I consider a 12 year old a kid? Nope.
 
LoneRonin said:
lol...you're funny. They ran up on a ****ing KID, not some crazed crackhead. The pig's job is not to go into a situation guns blazing, especially not these patrol *******. This isn't ****ing Iraq where you just shoot anyone carrying anything other than a stick and not give two ****s.

yea, 50ft would be good...who cares if they're out of range, they can still yell and they're not supposed to be instigating a gunfight anyways, if it comes down to it that's what they're trained for. It's two grown trained men vs a kid and it would quickly be apparent his gun isn't real. Even if it is, that's what they signed up for. It's similar to the risk we take of cagers running us over...I wish I could chase down and beat the **** out of everyone who almost killed me and not get arrested for it.

They have no offence or defence?? They have a ****ing car which they could use for cover or to drive up and close in. When a rider gets hits it's a 2 ton weapon, when it comes to using it as cover or an actual weapon you guys call them defenceless and say its ****ing Hollywood...

You must be a cop or a real dick rider...like the guys here talking **** to me for stepping up and stopping an *** whooping of a defenceless poor bastard with a shovel and plumbing pipe.
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+1

Unless we really do not understand the culture of those communities. It seems these days the cops want to ramp everything up into a showdown on the idea that they're under threat with no way out. Yet, it seems, they always put themselves right up close to the "bad guy" with out any immediate need to do so. It's like a car chase where they just want to ramp it up putting the community in grave danger rather than let the bad guy get away.
 
inreb said:
Imagine someone standing on the sidewalk in front of their house with a rifle. They haven't fired it or threatened anyone. But just standing there would be cause for concern or even alarm. Mental situation unknown. Rifle real or fake unknown. Cops receive call. How to respond? Come to screeching stop right beside rifle holder? Really? Anyway, gun culture is awesome, we should have more of it here. How else are you going to protect yourself?
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from only seeing blurry video and no audio and having the luxury of time to think about it, I'd say the cops could have done a few things different.
But then, i dont know their training, and i dont have any.


maybe the kid pointed the gun , or moved in an aggressive manner when the cruiser pulled up and spooked him.
but in this situation the cops were responding to a 911 call from a resident. Why is a 12 yr old walking around alone. with a gun no less.
 
Sativa Quemador said:
maybe the kid pointed the gun , or moved in an aggressive manner when the cruiser pulled up and spooked him.
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He obviously went for the gun in his waistband. The cops knew they were responding to a call about a person with a gun...

I'm not sure being a cop pays well enough for one to want to gamble his life in such a situation.
 
mmmnaked said:
He obviously went for the gun in his waistband. The cops knew they were responding to a call about a person with a gun...

I'm not sure being a cop pays well enough for one to want to gamble his life in such a situation.
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You're right. As soon as they put themselves in that "situation" it's almost a foregone conclusion, if the kid even twitches, he's done. I don't understand why cops seem to get right in there like that.
 
No idea, maybe they ****ed up, or maybe they followed procedure. I'm assuming they wanted to get the jump on him because they saw him empty-handed as they were pulling up? That ended quite badly.
 
Maybe that is their procedure due to some reason we don't know. I once meet a kid in South America that had killed 12 people, he was a scary mofo and I am glad I was in friendly company, since I am as white as it comes.
 
Outrage! A kid should be able to threaten people with what looks like a real gun without repercussion !

/ Jumbo sized sarcasm.
 
mikbusa said:
Outrage! A kid should be able to threaten people with what looks like a real gun without repercussion !

/ Jumbo sized sarcasm.
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Was the kid walking around threatening people or did people see him playing with his toy gun and feel threatened? I don't know did they say? I had just read that he was waiving it around which could be as simple as any child playing with a toy gun would act. They sell toy guns in stores they are intended for kids to play with but Police are not supposed to assume it could be a toy? What a dangerous situation to set up. At least give the kid a chance to notify you that its a toy. When I watch the video I saw an ambush I didn't see any chance for the kid other than being shot. Shoot first ask questions later I guess. Hey even the 911 caller said it may be a fake gun but hey just in case roll up and shoot him before you have a chance to figure that out.

Policing has changed. Police used to be out interacting with community and treat people like humans not the enemy. Now most police in the states skulk in their cars surveilling and not interacting. The connection is lost.

Could you image how many police shootings would occur if the NRA got their way and everyone had a gun. Geez the police would have reason to shoot anyone they interact with if they ever perceive the hint of a threat.

Did you not play with toy guns or cops and robbers in parks? I know I did as a kid.
 
^^ well said
 
AdRath said:
Was the kid walking around threatening people or did people see him playing with his toy gun and feel threatened? I don't know did they say? I had just read that he was waiving it around which could be as simple as any child playing with a toy gun would act. They sell toy guns in stores they are intended for kids to play with but Police are not supposed to assume it could be a toy? What a dangerous situation to set up. At least give the kid a chance to notify you that its a toy. When I watch the video I saw an ambush I didn't see any chance for the kid other than being shot. Shoot first ask questions later I guess. Hey even the 911 caller said it may be a fake gun but hey just in case roll up and shoot him before you have a chance to figure that out.

Policing has changed. Police used to be out interacting with community and treat people like humans not the enemy. Now most police in the states skulk in their cars surveilling and not interacting. The connection is lost.

Could you image how many police shootings would occur if the NRA got their way and everyone had a gun. Geez the police would have reason to shoot anyone they interact with if they ever perceive the hint of a threat.

Did you not play with toy guns or cops and robbers in parks? I know I did as a kid.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=100_1417033544 It looks like he was pointing it at people, it was enough for 911 to be called.
 
AdRath said:
Was the kid walking around threatening people or did people see him playing with his toy gun and feel threatened? I don't know did they say? I had just read that he was waiving it around which could be as simple as any child playing with a toy gun would act. They sell toy guns in stores they are intended for kids to play with but Police are not supposed to assume it could be a toy? What a dangerous situation to set up. At least give the kid a chance to notify you that its a toy. When I watch the video I saw an ambush I didn't see any chance for the kid other than being shot. Shoot first ask questions later I guess. Hey even the 911 caller said it may be a fake gun but hey just in case roll up and shoot him before you have a chance to figure that out.

Policing has changed. Police used to be out interacting with community and treat people like humans not the enemy. Now most police in the states skulk in their cars surveilling and not interacting. The connection is lost.

Could you image how many police shootings would occur if the NRA got their way and everyone had a gun. Geez the police would have reason to shoot anyone they interact with if they ever perceive the hint of a threat.

Did you not play with toy guns or cops and robbers in parks? I know I did as a kid.
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+ 1
 
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