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If this is the Oxford vaccine....that’s not ready. Maybe it’s Putin's untested vaccine.

This is a stunt, nothing more. The trials are moving as fast as they can and as safely as they can. Cutting them short is irresponsible. They are still recruiting people for Phase 3 trials.

These are new methods of producing vaccines. Really good science...but with anything new they need to be thoroughly checked for safety. Once upon a time there was this new wonderdrug, it cured morning sickness, it seemed really safe so it got pushed onto the market. That was Thalidomide.
 
jc100 said:
If this is the Oxford vaccine....that’s not ready. Maybe it’s Putin's untested vaccine.

This is a stunt, nothing more. The trials are moving as fast as they can and as safely as they can. Cutting them short is irresponsible. They are still recruiting people for Phase 3 trials.

These are new methods of producing vaccines. Really good science...but with anything new they need to be thoroughly checked for safety. Once upon a time there was this new wonderdrug, it cured morning sickness, it seemed really safe so it got pushed onto the market. That was Thalidomide.
Click to expand...
I'm happy to line up for the vaccine but I'm not getting it until the science is reasonably complete. There can always be long-term issues that didnt show up but the grandparents arent getting younger, I want to try and get them and the kids safely back together asap.
 
GreyGhost said:
I'm happy to line up for the vaccine but I'm not getting it until the science is reasonably complete. There can always be long-term issues that didnt show up but the grandparents arent getting younger, I want to try and get them and the kids safely back together asap.
Click to expand...

That's what phase 3 and ongoing trials are for. If you hurry things up too much you miss things potentially. If you cut short phase 3 trials you can get real issues. About the only trials that are ever cut short are those for terminal diseases where great promise has been shown. That’s happened with a few anti-cancer drugs before.
 
From what Dr. John Campbell said in his latest video, the Oxford vaccine is based on one that already exists...at least that's what I heard him say...
 
ifiddles said:
From what Dr. John Campbell said in his latest video, the Oxford vaccine is based on one that already exists...at least that's what I heard him say...
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I would still make sure you have a goodly supply of masks for back to school, and change them at least a couple of times a day.
Open the windows if you can. Get the kids outside as much as possible.
The latest news, is that masks aren't just for protecting other people.
 
That it is a modified existing vaccine is perhaps what gives them a fighting chance of having a vaccine ready in a year instead of 10 years. My understanding is that any vaccine for this virus will need 2 doses a month apart, plus it needs to be in the test subjects for some time. Not going to be done properly before November. Maybe the early people to get it will be the test subjects.
 
jc100 said:
Once upon a time there was this new wonderdrug, it cured morning sickness, it seemed really safe so it got pushed onto the market. That was Thalidomide.
Click to expand...

Good example. I'm familiar with Thalidomide. A good friend's mother took it for morning sickness. Let's just say modelling was never a career option for him.
 
jc100 said:
So this is where we are now...

Covid: Australian anti-lockdown suspect's arrest draws controversy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-in, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Fake news?
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Edit: here it is Covid: Australian anti-lockdown suspect's arrest draws controversy

Seems a little fascist/communist/extreme to arrest someone for planning a protest. Imagine if that happened in the U.S. with BLM.

If we claim to be better, then we need to be able to use reason and logic to convince people, not insults and force.
 
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Baggsy said:
Fake news?
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Unfortunately, we are unable to bring you the page you are looking for.


We may be suffering from technical difficulties, or you may have typed the web address incorrectly. Please check the address including its spelling, and try again

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Edit: here it is Covid: Australian anti-lockdown suspect's arrest draws controversy

Seems a little fascist/communist/extreme to arrest someone for planning a protest. Imagine if that happened in the U.S. with BLM.

If we claim to be better, then we need to be able to use reason and logic to convince people, not insults and force.
Click to expand...
From the content in the story, it seems a pre-emptive arrest may have been a bit harsh. Wait till the protesters show up and hit them all with the max fine. I wonder if there is room in their law to hit her with a fine for each person she encouraged to come out? Nothing says you can't protest, you just can't travel around and congregate to do it. Use some form of digital congregation or similar concept.
 
GreyGhost said:
From the content in the story, it seems a pre-emptive arrest may have been a bit harsh. Wait till the protesters show up and hit them all with the max fine. I wonder if there is room in their law to hit her with a fine for each person she encouraged to come out? Nothing says you can't protest, you just can't travel around and congregate to do it. Use some form of digital congregation or similar concept.
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That completely misses my point.
 
Baggsy said:
That completely misses my point.
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Trying to use logical arguments to convince illogical people is impossible. You may be able to convince 1% on the fringe that were just joining in, but for the hard-core believers, by definition there is no argument you can make to change their beliefs. Beliefs are based on feelings, not logic, reason or science. You would have just as much effect trying to convince the sky to turn green by talking to it.
 
GreyGhost said:
Trying to use logical arguments to convince illogical people is impossible. You may be able to convince 1% on the fringe that were just joining in, but for the hard-core believers, by definition there is no argument you can make to change their beliefs. Beliefs are based on feelings, not logic, reason or science. You would have just as much effect trying to convince the sky to turn green by talking to it.
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I will stop arguing with you then.
 
Canada's COVID Alert app has been downloaded 2.2 million times, but only 110 people have voluntarily inputted a one-time key from health authorities to alert others of their positive COVID-19 test.

Didn't see that coming. :rolleyes:

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

Ottawa resident tests positive for COVID-19 after notification from COVID Alert App

An Ottawa resident tested positive for COVID-19 after being alerted of a close contact to a confirmed case through the COVID Alert App.
ottawa.ctvnews.ca
 
jc100 said:
If this is the Oxford vaccine....that’s not ready. Maybe it’s Putin's untested vaccine.

This is a stunt, nothing more. The trials are moving as fast as they can and as safely as they can. Cutting them short is irresponsible. They are still recruiting people for Phase 3 trials.

These are new methods of producing vaccines. Really good science...but with anything new they need to be thoroughly checked for safety. Once upon a time there was this new wonderdrug, it cured morning sickness, it seemed really safe so it got pushed onto the market. That was Thalidomide.
Click to expand...

Thalidomide is also interesting in that there is a "left hand" and "right hand" version of the molecule. My guess in the rush they just didn't realize the impact. One really is a wonder drug, the other caused all the problems. The wonder drug version shows positive results for many, many things and diseases but the memory of what the other molecule did (which is horrible) holds it (and potentially humanity) back.

We have to be careful that history does not repeat itself in the context of COVID.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Thalidomide is also interesting in that there is a "left hand" and "right hand" version of the molecule. My guess in the rush they just didn't realize the impact. One really is a wonder drug, the other caused all the problems. The wonder drug version shows positive results for many, many things and diseases but the memory of what the other molecule did (which is horrible) holds it (and potentially humanity) back.

We have to be careful that history does not repeat itself in the context of COVID.
Click to expand...

yes...thalidomide is one of the reasons drug development costs so much these days. Each chiral (the left and right handed bit in your explanation) version of the drug needs to be tested....however, many drugs have more than one centre that can be left or right handed. Thalidomide has just one of these centres and indeed the correct, non-toxic “handed” version of the drug is pretty safe, it’s used to treat leprosy for one thing....they did change the name though.
 
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