Ah crap, so sorry the sarcasm font is broken. I've been a solid top 5 outrage contender in this thread from the get go. Assassination.
Const. James Forcillo shot Sammy Yatim - the trial
- Thread starter MarcosSantiago
- Start date
Ah crap, so sorry the sarcasm font is broken. I've been a solid top 5 outrage contender in this thread from the get go. Assassination.
LoneRonin
Well-known member
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
He's been out on bail the whole time...so no time served, you only get that if you got no bail and were locked up until trial.
He'll probably be lucky though and get some bull**** like house arrest
He's been out on bail the whole time...so no time served, you only get that if you got no bail and were locked up until trial.
He'll probably be lucky though and get some bull**** like house arrest
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
You are right....he won't do any significant time for attempting to kill a kid that was already dead
You are right....he won't do any significant time for attempting to kill a kid that was already dead
I don't know if Poor Johnny will get caught up but the rest is qft:director:
Anyway, the bad guy shouldna shot so many times in a slow methodical fashion.
My shorts tints out of the basement don't allow me to gather that kind of perspective so I was torn between rapid mag dump and slow, methodical execution. I would have thought there'd be a happy middle ground.
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Riceburner
Well-known member
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
"IF".....that's just it.
"IF".....that's just it.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
Yes, he will go to jail for a few years. His only chance is to fire his lawyer now, and get a new one. I think his lawyer is a little bit cuckoo.
This is the motion the lawyer is putting forward now: Abuse of process
... Lawyer Peter Brauti told reporters he intends to ask the judge to stay the charge because Forcillo “substantially followed his training,” which was provided by the state.
“The state,” he said, “should be disentitled to a conviction because they . . . provided the training to him.”
The legal community opinion on the likelihood of success of such an abuse of process application ranges from a flat zero to just shy of impossible.
Now I think his lawyer doesn't know anything about anything. But maybe I am wrong.
Yes, he will go to jail for a few years. His only chance is to fire his lawyer now, and get a new one. I think his lawyer is a little bit cuckoo.
This is the motion the lawyer is putting forward now: Abuse of process
... Lawyer Peter Brauti told reporters he intends to ask the judge to stay the charge because Forcillo “substantially followed his training,” which was provided by the state.
“The state,” he said, “should be disentitled to a conviction because they . . . provided the training to him.”
The legal community opinion on the likelihood of success of such an abuse of process application ranges from a flat zero to just shy of impossible.
Now I think his lawyer doesn't know anything about anything. But maybe I am wrong.
-D-
Banned
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
Hi lawyer seems to be simply dragging it out in the hopes that some other judge/jury rules the opposite way or they find some loophole and he gets off.
Hi lawyer seems to be simply dragging it out in the hopes that some other judge/jury rules the opposite way or they find some loophole and he gets off.
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
Well Said:
http://www.cp24.com/news/op-ed-forcillo-had-options-other-than-shooting-to-kill-1.2753329
OP-ED: Forcillo had options other than shooting to kill
Chris D. Lewis, Special to CP24.com
Published Tuesday, January 26, 2016 7:24PM EST
I completely admit that I am an arm-chair quarterback on policing and public safety issues. That’s what I do, but I do so following a 36 year career in policing, including a number of years engaged in or overseeing OPP tactical operations at the provincial level.
Despite having strong opinions on the July 27, 2013 fatal shooting of Sammy Yatim by Toronto Police Service Constable James Forcillo from the moment the YouTube video appeared, I did not publicly pass judgment for obvious reasons. I wasn’t there, did not attend the trial, but did follow the reported evidence very closely. However the lengthy and passionate trial is now over – pending appeals and motions, and the jury has made their difficult decision, so fasten your seatbelt.
No police officer in this country dons their uniform hoping to take a life over the course of their shift. Much to the contrary. They are sworn to protect life and property and do so very well, despite constant criticism from the vocal minority and a growing feeling that they are unappreciated by many.
Certainly some officers are more inclined to unnecessarily use force than others – including deadly force, however they are thankfully but a few. The vast majority of Canadian and U.S. police officers are honest, committed and brave public servants that want no part of taking a life, OR the investigation, scrutiny and feelings of isolation the entire process will bring them if they do. Regardless, at times they must. Through his or her actions, the suspect most often dictates the amount of force that the police must respond with. At least that is how it should be.
Constable James Forcillo and his colleagues responded to the call on the street car that night, where a troubled teen was among other things displaying a switchblade in a threatening manner. Suffering from mental health issues or not, Sammy Yatim was a threat to public safety. That is the reality of the situation. People fled in terror, leaving him alone in that streetcar. Having said that, as long as he didn’t leave the vehicle he was not a threat to anyone but himself, especially not the armed police gathered on the surrounding street.
The role of the police at that point was to contain him on that empty streetcar; isolate him; evacuate the area immediately around the vehicle in the event that he left it; and negotiate with him to drop the knife and submit to arrest. They could have strategically placed police cruisers in front of the streetcar doors, stayed a safe distance behind those cars, established communication with Yatim and awaited trained police negotiators, mental health professionals, the Emergency Task Force, and Conducted Energy Weapons (Tasers). That situation could have gone on indefinitely.
If Yatim had then tried to leave the confines of the TTC vehicle with that knife, officers could have barked commands, stayed a safe distance away and tried to safely arrest him, all with guns trained on him. But the situation did not unfold that way.
Yes, a suspect with a knife can close a considerable distance and fatally wound someone very quickly, in fact the average citizen would be shocked how rapidly that can happen. That’s why officers would try to keep distance and obstacles between them and the suspect. If that becomes impossible, then the use of deadly force may be the only recourse police have. However, that did not occur either.
Instead, within 50 seconds of his arrival, Forcillo approached Sammy Yatim at that streetcar door, forcing a confrontation that resulted in 2 volleys of shots being fired, the 2nd of which we now know were fired into a lifeless body lying on the streetcar floor.
Forcillo was an aggressive officer that was looking to "win" this situation quickly. He had several options available to him and did not have to approach that door and force the situation. Although his female colleague testified that it was the most terrifying moment of her life and that Yatim was “going to get himself shot”, her on-video demeanor said otherwise. Regardless, Forcillo made a decision that would end a life and forever change many others, including his own.
Dealing with people suffering from mental health issues is difficult for officers and all police services – including Toronto Police, are making strides to improve their response to such calls. Much has been done already. However, all the proper training, policies, procedures and available experts in the world would mean nothing if an aggressive cop responds, makes bad decisions and immediately pushes the envelope.
Some have suggested that this conviction sends a chilling message that will make officers hesitant to approach similar potentially violent occurrences in future. That is quite possibly an outcome. But officers continually learn from every experience around them – the good, the bad and the ugly. They then go forward accordingly, with those lessons-learned firmly implanted in their psyche.
The overwhelming majority of officers out there will continue to respond to similar calls as they always have – calmly, safely, professionally and with an abundance of caution for their own safety and all of those involved, including the suspect.
But if those few officers that would have previously been inclined to respond to a call involving a lone man brandishing a knife and in less than a minute, shoot him dead, only to fire a second volley of bullets into his corpse before bringing in a Taser and shooting him with that too, decide to hesitate long enough to do things right, then so be it.
I see that as a good thing.
Chris Lewis served as commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police from 2010 until he retired in 2014. He can be seen regularly on CTV and CP24 giving his opinion as a public safety analyst.
Well Said:
http://www.cp24.com/news/op-ed-forcillo-had-options-other-than-shooting-to-kill-1.2753329
OP-ED: Forcillo had options other than shooting to kill
Chris D. Lewis, Special to CP24.com
Published Tuesday, January 26, 2016 7:24PM EST
I completely admit that I am an arm-chair quarterback on policing and public safety issues. That’s what I do, but I do so following a 36 year career in policing, including a number of years engaged in or overseeing OPP tactical operations at the provincial level.
Despite having strong opinions on the July 27, 2013 fatal shooting of Sammy Yatim by Toronto Police Service Constable James Forcillo from the moment the YouTube video appeared, I did not publicly pass judgment for obvious reasons. I wasn’t there, did not attend the trial, but did follow the reported evidence very closely. However the lengthy and passionate trial is now over – pending appeals and motions, and the jury has made their difficult decision, so fasten your seatbelt.
No police officer in this country dons their uniform hoping to take a life over the course of their shift. Much to the contrary. They are sworn to protect life and property and do so very well, despite constant criticism from the vocal minority and a growing feeling that they are unappreciated by many.
Certainly some officers are more inclined to unnecessarily use force than others – including deadly force, however they are thankfully but a few. The vast majority of Canadian and U.S. police officers are honest, committed and brave public servants that want no part of taking a life, OR the investigation, scrutiny and feelings of isolation the entire process will bring them if they do. Regardless, at times they must. Through his or her actions, the suspect most often dictates the amount of force that the police must respond with. At least that is how it should be.
Constable James Forcillo and his colleagues responded to the call on the street car that night, where a troubled teen was among other things displaying a switchblade in a threatening manner. Suffering from mental health issues or not, Sammy Yatim was a threat to public safety. That is the reality of the situation. People fled in terror, leaving him alone in that streetcar. Having said that, as long as he didn’t leave the vehicle he was not a threat to anyone but himself, especially not the armed police gathered on the surrounding street.
The role of the police at that point was to contain him on that empty streetcar; isolate him; evacuate the area immediately around the vehicle in the event that he left it; and negotiate with him to drop the knife and submit to arrest. They could have strategically placed police cruisers in front of the streetcar doors, stayed a safe distance behind those cars, established communication with Yatim and awaited trained police negotiators, mental health professionals, the Emergency Task Force, and Conducted Energy Weapons (Tasers). That situation could have gone on indefinitely.
If Yatim had then tried to leave the confines of the TTC vehicle with that knife, officers could have barked commands, stayed a safe distance away and tried to safely arrest him, all with guns trained on him. But the situation did not unfold that way.
Yes, a suspect with a knife can close a considerable distance and fatally wound someone very quickly, in fact the average citizen would be shocked how rapidly that can happen. That’s why officers would try to keep distance and obstacles between them and the suspect. If that becomes impossible, then the use of deadly force may be the only recourse police have. However, that did not occur either.
Instead, within 50 seconds of his arrival, Forcillo approached Sammy Yatim at that streetcar door, forcing a confrontation that resulted in 2 volleys of shots being fired, the 2nd of which we now know were fired into a lifeless body lying on the streetcar floor.
Forcillo was an aggressive officer that was looking to "win" this situation quickly. He had several options available to him and did not have to approach that door and force the situation. Although his female colleague testified that it was the most terrifying moment of her life and that Yatim was “going to get himself shot”, her on-video demeanor said otherwise. Regardless, Forcillo made a decision that would end a life and forever change many others, including his own.
Dealing with people suffering from mental health issues is difficult for officers and all police services – including Toronto Police, are making strides to improve their response to such calls. Much has been done already. However, all the proper training, policies, procedures and available experts in the world would mean nothing if an aggressive cop responds, makes bad decisions and immediately pushes the envelope.
Some have suggested that this conviction sends a chilling message that will make officers hesitant to approach similar potentially violent occurrences in future. That is quite possibly an outcome. But officers continually learn from every experience around them – the good, the bad and the ugly. They then go forward accordingly, with those lessons-learned firmly implanted in their psyche.
The overwhelming majority of officers out there will continue to respond to similar calls as they always have – calmly, safely, professionally and with an abundance of caution for their own safety and all of those involved, including the suspect.
But if those few officers that would have previously been inclined to respond to a call involving a lone man brandishing a knife and in less than a minute, shoot him dead, only to fire a second volley of bullets into his corpse before bringing in a Taser and shooting him with that too, decide to hesitate long enough to do things right, then so be it.
I see that as a good thing.
Chris Lewis served as commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police from 2010 until he retired in 2014. He can be seen regularly on CTV and CP24 giving his opinion as a public safety analyst.
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
Not to be a rude rube dude but right off the hop we have "No officer blah blah over the course of a shift, much to the contrary". Really? How does he know this for certain? That's just so much boilerplate sending 36 years of policing credibility right down the tubes. Everything else in the piece, which I happen to agree with, has already been said by the great unwashed Monday morning QB's of this fine forum.
Not to be a rude rube dude but right off the hop we have "No officer blah blah over the course of a shift, much to the contrary". Really? How does he know this for certain? That's just so much boilerplate sending 36 years of policing credibility right down the tubes. Everything else in the piece, which I happen to agree with, has already been said by the great unwashed Monday morning QB's of this fine forum.
samurai
Well-known member
Let's not blame it all on training just because that's what Forcillo was trying to use as his way out, it's his own incompetence/poor judgement combined with lack of some required oversight that was the root cause of this issue. He should have been assigned desk duty and put under some sort of coaching or focused training when he already unholstered his weapon at an alarming rate prior to this incident and those incidents were documented. Those flags were raised for a reason and should have been actioned appropriately. I am sure they will review and revise that process now.
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Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
I guess the opinion of a former OPP commissioner has the same value as the comments of the GTAM folk. This reinforces the fact that Forcillo had more options which yes a point already made by the incredibly qualified posters of GTAM but I figure I would bring the point of view of an insider.
Who ****** on your fruit loops today?
I guess the opinion of a former OPP commissioner has the same value as the comments of the GTAM folk. This reinforces the fact that Forcillo had more options which yes a point already made by the incredibly qualified posters of GTAM but I figure I would bring the point of view of an insider.
Who ****** on your fruit loops today?
