A friends cousin was shot to death in his own driveway by an OPP. No witnesses but after looking long and hard enough the cops found a perceived weapon. At the hearing / trial it came out that most cops hardly ever drew their sidearms but the cop in question had drawn his dozens of times. Many years ago and no cameras.
Const. James Forcillo shot Sammy Yatim - the trial
- Thread starter MarcosSantiago
- Start date
A friends cousin was shot to death in his own driveway by an OPP. No witnesses but after looking long and hard enough the cops found a perceived weapon. At the hearing / trial it came out that most cops hardly ever drew their sidearms but the cop in question had drawn his dozens of times. Many years ago and no cameras.
Sure they will.
This will get dragged out for years and through lawsuits and inquests and appeals until maaaaaybe a Superior Court judge issues the cops an order that they need to fix their training and monitoring systems, and then they'll just cry poor and say they aren't given enough money to do anything about it, and nothing will change.
Constant video and audio monitoring full-time while they are on shift, with the recording logged and monitored remotely (i.e. the officer doesn't get paid unless it's recording!), would solve a lot of problems. If people know they're being recorded, they're more inclined to behave ... and that goes both ways. There are recordings of cops doing wrong (as in this case), but there are plenty of recordings of false accusations, too.
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
This case points to one important problem: Why is our police force given a license to kill? Why were the first 3 shots justified?
I don't see a reason that our police officers should carry guns. Tactical units or special units that can be well trained with focus on how to save lives rather than take them - would be a better alternative. The fact that many officers join because they enjoy the power that the gun provides is something that TPS knows about. It's something I have heard the instructors and trainers say that they know about but can do nothing about it. We take a much greater risk by giving this power to more people, instead of concentrating on de-escalation procedures and how to avoid conflict when facing one of our own.
This case points to one important problem: Why is our police force given a license to kill? Why were the first 3 shots justified?
I don't see a reason that our police officers should carry guns. Tactical units or special units that can be well trained with focus on how to save lives rather than take them - would be a better alternative. The fact that many officers join because they enjoy the power that the gun provides is something that TPS knows about. It's something I have heard the instructors and trainers say that they know about but can do nothing about it. We take a much greater risk by giving this power to more people, instead of concentrating on de-escalation procedures and how to avoid conflict when facing one of our own.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
Yes, 100% correct. The question is *still* why didn't they found him guilty of murder?
Yes, 100% correct. The question is *still* why didn't they found him guilty of murder?
There should be a mandatory drug test/blood sample for events like this. My money is on roid rage, and not the hemorrhoid kind (although they can also make someone angry...).
Re: James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder!!!
I can read between the lines of what Chris Lewis wrote and can tell that he is trying his hardest to stay 'professional' to his police colleagues but in his heart he know Forcillo shouldn't have a badge.
What I wonder is how many people knew Forcillo was a hot head prior. He seemed to have a habit of drawing his weapon more than other officers and I don't think his personality just changed that day. He was probably always a hot head and known for it around the station. Who's job is it to referee officers behaviour before it becomes a crime and why aren't they ever held responsible for letting potentially explosive officers continue their behaviour? When fellow officers and superiors stop ignoring patterns of poor behaviour only then policing will change. Police leadership needs to examine and flag officers with patterns that could become problematic. I wonder how many other officers are out there that have a record of drawing their weapons or escalating incidents.
I can read between the lines of what Chris Lewis wrote and can tell that he is trying his hardest to stay 'professional' to his police colleagues but in his heart he know Forcillo shouldn't have a badge.
What I wonder is how many people knew Forcillo was a hot head prior. He seemed to have a habit of drawing his weapon more than other officers and I don't think his personality just changed that day. He was probably always a hot head and known for it around the station. Who's job is it to referee officers behaviour before it becomes a crime and why aren't they ever held responsible for letting potentially explosive officers continue their behaviour? When fellow officers and superiors stop ignoring patterns of poor behaviour only then policing will change. Police leadership needs to examine and flag officers with patterns that could become problematic. I wonder how many other officers are out there that have a record of drawing their weapons or escalating incidents.
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Tweaked ever so slightly.
And who pays the legal bills????? Add to that the new botch up.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...-about-to-be-charged-with-obstruction-perjury
Many years ago I was talking to an OPP cop that got into a collision while on duty. The other party wanted him charged with dangerous driving and the cop's concern was that he would have to pay for his own defense if it was a criminal charge such as dangerous driving. It got dropped to careless and went away.
Did the taxpayer pay for Forcillo's defense?
Forcillo is suspended with pay. How much will this cost us over the years?
Similarly for the new charges of perjury etc.
Kudos to the new chief for the attitude correction but I wonder if the thin blue line will stab him in the back.
I think most cops are decent but the bad ones are aggressive. The good ones need to become more aggressive against the bad ones.
The New Chief is part of the established system and culture.
Riceburner
Well-known member
News says over $1 Mil a year for all the cops suspended with pay on the TO police force.....ummm....police service.
or $13k per day for all in ONT.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-police-paid-suspensions
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Innocent until proven guilty means you pay them to sit at home. If they are found guilty they pay the money back. If they are found innocent they keep the money plus any they made doing other work.
Desk duty means they are still working (Straightening paper clips) so you can't take the money back.
so trigger boy was charged and convicted by a jury , when does he have to pay the money back
My suggestion, not the way it is.
i don't really understand why he is not in jail now, he should have not been able to leave the court room a free man.
waiting for an appeal don't make him innocent.
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Attempted Murder does not carry an immediate sentence, so if he is not yet sentenced he can't really go to jail.. it seems
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
That would be ideal, but of course they DO NOT have to pay the money back. A tactic used if they know they are going to lose is to delay the case as long as possible to maximize the paid time off.
IMO, they should have to pay it back if convicted.
I can sort of stomach suspension with pay due to presumption of innocence (even though most people would lose their jobs if charged with murder) and that it was put in place to avoid hardships from frivolous accusations and charges.
Forcillo has been found guilty he shouldn't get a dime. He is guilty now. The appeal is to overturn the verdict or a re-trail but as it stands he has been found guilty. His pay should stop and only re-instated if the guilty verdict is overturned.
By the very nature of a policemans job regular workers won't find themselves in these types of situations. Just like most workers won't drop a huge load from a tower crane because of poor rigging. Police contracts should be written to allow a subsistence pay while all legal options are exhausted. IMHO.
He has been found guilty... he has not been convicted yet. There is a difference.
