Const. James Forcillo shot Sammy Yatim - the trial

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Actually the closest Eye witness was the camera inside the street car that showed no one was in danger, unless you guys watched the video and determine that at that momen he was shot, he was physically able to harm someone. Maybe he is "The Flash"
griff2 said:
Verifiably false? Maybe.

She did happen to go on to say:
Fleckeisen provided her own interpretation of that moment, saying Yatim made a "very deliberate, intentional motion forward" in the moments before he was shot. "Mr. Yatim looked like he was coming off the streetcar," she said, adding that Forcillo's shots were consequently not unexpected.

​
She was the closest eyewitness to Forcillo's actions that night. She testified (in-streetcar video shows the same) that it looked like Yatim (who was still waving a knife) was going to come off the streetcar, which would have turned a contained and somewhat static situation that could have been waited out into a dynamic and dangerous situation with an armed and unstable person with a knife headed towards police. She also testified that the resulting shots (at least the first round) were not surprising given the situation as she described it.

There are still several more days of trial to come. More witness evidence to come.
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ZX600 said:
Just gonna leave this here

"Last Sunday, Montreal police responded to a 911 call regarding a stabbing. They arrived to find a 65-year-old man, who had allegedly stabbed two people inside the house, harming himself with a knife. After attempting to negotiate with the man, police shot him with rubber bullets. They could have used live rounds and needlessly increased the likelihood of killing their target, but they rightly deemed that level of violence unnecessary.Montreal police went much further to preserve life in July of 2013, during a 20-hour armed standoff with 72-year-old Isidore Havis, who was barricaded in his residence with more than 150 firearms. Havis had reportedly threatened two Hydro workers with a handgun, then barricaded himself indoors before police arrived. During the standoff, police claim Havis shot at them and grazed an officer’s foot with his bullet.

Police waited Havis out, employed tear gas, and eventually shot him with rubber bullets that shattered several of his bones. The elderly man, whose family said was suffering from dementia, died in hospital three weeks later. (A coroner concluded Havis died of natural causes.)

One of Havis’s neighbours told the media, “We didn’t want him to die, just for him to get the help he needed.” The police seemed not to want to kill Havis either, even though he fired at them and threatened two civilians. They proved that police often do put their lives on the line, and can do so without needlessly jeopardizing the lives of the people they serve — that Sarah Yatim’s wish for a city without fatal police confrontations is within the force’s power to fulfil."
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Whether it's the Forcillo incident or the redneck pro-gun attitude my concern is akin to the comment "When the only tool you have is a hammer you see every problem as a nail."

Kudos to the Montreal police but how does a person with dementia end up keeping 150 firearms?
 
Its crazy that police need to call in non lethal options. Shouldn't that be the first option on the table not the last? Its a sad commentary that the taser arrived just in time to zap the dead kid.
 
AdRath said:
Its crazy that police need to call in non lethal options. Shouldn't that be the first option on the table not the last? Its a sad commentary that the taser arrived just in time to zap the dead kid.
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Should be but whats the fun in that for the gungho power tripping corrupt police officers?

 
When police anounced that they were to deploy tasers . All the usual whiner groups jumped up and down to complain . You can't have it both ways . Instead of all front line officers having tasers . Only supervisors have them . So if situation develops you have to wait for a supervisor or etf. When a knife is involved your only choice is a gun . No matter how much you guys whine . It was Sammy that caused the situation . He was holding the knife . The cops did what he thought was right . It's time for the courts to make the desicion if he was right . If Sammy got off the bus and stabbed some one . The same people here would be crying . Why didn't the police shoot him earlier . It's a no win with some people . I have no issues with police they have a sh*t job to do . Everyone is a hero after a situation happens . They can all tell you how they would have fixed a situation without use of force .
 
^Well that doesn't read mildly retarded.
 
pfbmgd said:
When police anounced that they were to deploy tasers . All the usual whiner groups jumped up and down to complain . You can't have it both ways . Instead of all front line officers having tasers . Only supervisors have them . So if situation develops you have to wait for a supervisor or etf. When a knife is involved your only choice is a gun . No matter how much you guys whine . It was Sammy that caused the situation . He was holding the knife . The cops did what he thought was right . It's time for the courts to make the desicion if he was right . If Sammy got off the bus and stabbed some one . The same people here would be crying . Why didn't the police shoot him earlier . It's a no win with some people . I have no issues with police they have a sh*t job to do . Everyone is a hero after a situation happens . They can all tell you how they would have fixed a situation without use of force .
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You should stop posting in this thread.


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pfbmgd said:
The cops did what he thought was right .
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Derp. That's the entire argument right there. What he thought was right, OBVIOUSLY wasn't. It's all on video, from multiple angles. The only interesting part left to this case is to see how the thin blue line unfolds itself in the court of law. This cop's negligence and ineptness was painfully obvious, and it resulted in a man's death.
 
pfbmgd said:
When police anounced that they were to deploy tasers . All the usual whiner groups jumped up and down to complain . You can't have it both ways . Instead of all front line officers having tasers . Only supervisors have them . So if situation develops you have to wait for a supervisor or etf. When a knife is involved your only choice is a gun . No matter how much you guys whine . It was Sammy that caused the situation . He was holding the knife . The cops did what he thought was right . It's time for the courts to make the desicion if he was right . If Sammy got off the bus and stabbed some one . The same people here would be crying . Why didn't the police shoot him earlier . It's a no win with some people . I have no issues with police they have a sh*t job to do . Everyone is a hero after a situation happens . They can all tell you how they would have fixed a situation without use of force .
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All very good points but they dont address the excessiveness of the second volley of six rounds into Sammy Yatim as he lay on the floor of the streetcar.Had Officer Forcillo stopped after the first three shots I would have considered it a judgement call that only James Forcillo could have made.Officer Forcillo knew damn well that he had hit that kid the first time around and he was not going to get back up.He excercised absolutely no self control or judgement.Is that the kind of guy that should be walking around with a gun and a badge?I dont think so.These cops have been getting way too many "Get Out of Jail Free" cards lately (think G20).It's about time they're reminded that they are accountable to the general public that pays their salary.
 
Bobo said:
All very good points but they dont address the excessiveness of the second volley of six rounds into Sammy Yatim as he lay on the floor of the streetcar.Had Officer Forcillo stopped after the first three shots I would have considered it a judgement call that only James Forcillo could have made.Officer Forcillo knew damn well that he had hit that kid the first time around and he was not going to get back up.He excercised absolutely no self control or judgement.Is that the kind of guy that should be walking around with a gun and a badge?I dont think so.
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My thoughts exactly. Shot the first 3 times, sure. Down on the ground and still shooting? That's just target practice.

Almost the same, but worse than kicking a person's head into the ground when they're already laying on the ground handcuffed or unconscious.
 
pfbmgd said:
When police anounced that they were to deploy tasers . All the usual whiner groups jumped up and down to complain . You can't have it both ways . Instead of all front line officers having tasers . Only supervisors have them . So if situation develops you have to wait for a supervisor or etf. When a knife is involved your only choice is a gun . No matter how much you guys whine . It was Sammy that caused the situation . He was holding the knife . The cops did what he thought was right . It's time for the courts to make the desicion if he was right . If Sammy got off the bus and stabbed some one . The same people here would be crying . Why didn't the police shoot him earlier . It's a no win with some people . I have no issues with police they have a sh*t job to do . Everyone is a hero after a situation happens . They can all tell you how they would have fixed a situation without use of force .
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All well and good. I will grant the cop the first couple of shots that it took to put Yatim on the ground ... but not the following six.
 
pfbmgd said:
When police anounced that they were to deploy tasers . All the usual whiner groups jumped up and down to complain . You can't have it both ways . Instead of all front line officers having tasers . Only supervisors have them . So if situation develops you have to wait for a supervisor or etf. When a knife is involved your only choice is a gun . No matter how much you guys whine . It was Sammy that caused the situation . He was holding the knife . The cops did what he thought was right . It's time for the courts to make the desicion if he was right . If Sammy got off the bus and stabbed some one . The same people here would be crying . Why didn't the police shoot him earlier . It's a no win with some people . I have no issues with police they have a sh*t job to do . Everyone is a hero after a situation happens . They can all tell you how they would have fixed a situation without use of force .
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The backlash over tasers wasn't really a problem with the tasers themselves, it was the cops weren't using them properly - they were using them early and often in conflicts, and they would hold down the trigger on them long after the tasee had already hit the floor. Departments didn't seem to want/have the budget to train their entire forces on their proper use, so now we have the bogus situation of today.

ZX600 said:
Just gonna leave this here

"Last Sunday, Montreal police responded to a 911 call regarding a stabbing. They arrived to find a 65-year-old man, who had allegedly stabbed two people inside the house, harming himself with a knife. After attempting to negotiate with the man, police shot him with rubber bullets. They could have used live rounds and needlessly increased the likelihood of killing their target, but they rightly deemed that level of violence unnecessary.Montreal police went much further to preserve life in July of 2013, during a 20-hour armed standoff with 72-year-old Isidore Havis, who was barricaded in his residence with more than 150 firearms. Havis had reportedly threatened two Hydro workers with a handgun, then barricaded himself indoors before police arrived. During the standoff, police claim Havis shot at them and grazed an officer’s foot with his bullet.

Police waited Havis out, employed tear gas, and eventually shot him with rubber bullets that shattered several of his bones. The elderly man, whose family said was suffering from dementia, died in hospital three weeks later. (A coroner concluded Havis died of natural causes.)

One of Havis’s neighbours told the media, “We didn’t want him to die, just for him to get the help he needed.” The police seemed not to want to kill Havis either, even though he fired at them and threatened two civilians. They proved that police often do put their lives on the line, and can do so without needlessly jeopardizing the lives of the people they serve — that Sarah Yatim’s wish for a city without fatal police confrontations is within the force’s power to fulfil."
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I guess the Montreal police deserve some credit for not shooting these gentlemen outright, but rubber bullets are a ****** riot control measure at best. I wouldn't want to catch any at close range. They'd be perfect candidates for taser deployment, as they've already assumed the liability of possibly killing people with the rubber bullets
 
Very generous people. If the last six shots never happened my outrage would still be the same. I have quality outrage.
 
Bobo said:
All very good points but they dont address the excessiveness of the second volley of six rounds into Sammy Yatim as he lay on the floor of the streetcar.Had Officer Forcillo stopped after the first three shots I would have considered it a judgement call that only James Forcillo could have made.Officer Forcillo knew damn well that he had hit that kid the first time around and he was not going to get back up.He excercised absolutely no self control or judgement.Is that the kind of guy that should be walking around with a gun and a badge?I dont think so.These cops have been getting way too many "Get Out of Jail Free" cards lately (think G20).It's about time they're reminded that they are accountable to the general public that pays their salary.
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The cops have been getting away with too much lately, but Forcillo decided he had to shoot so we can't possibly question his judgement. Never mind all the videos. Police have the final say. Except when they try and get away with stuff.

WTF?!?
 
Is there any information about the shots fired, where they hit and which ones or how many were considered lethal? If I heard correctly it was 9 shots, and 8 of them actually hit him?
 
JohnnyP636 said:
Is there any information about the shots fired, where they hit and which ones or how many were considered lethal? If I heard correctly it was 9 shots, and 8 of them actually hit him?
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My understanding is yes, 8 of 9 hit. Within the first three his spine was shattered and a fatal heart shot made.
 
what's these rubber bullets and tear gas they speak off? a new invention?
pfft next you will tell me a shotgun can shoot rubber pellets
 
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