Const. James Forcillo shot Sammy Yatim - the trial

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I do believe that pointing a gun is a form of de-escalation but shooting said gun is not... specially not 9 times.

The taser used after he was dead was also a form of de-escalation if used before the 9 shots... so this is not murder, this was just wrong order of events
 
kwtoxman said:
Get into a huff somewhere, such as on a street car or at the bank or police station, and then whip out a gun. See if people consider that a de-escalation.
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Do I really need to explain why what you said is silly?
 
griff2 said:
My eyes have not seen the evidence close up in court. Social media and regular news media is a poor substitute for that.
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Good to know. I was afraid that you had made your mind up on the matter already.
 
ZX600 said:
Do I really need to explain why what you said is silly?
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Look at your language in my quote. Talk about silly. Maybe I should guess as to what you meant instead of what you said. Okay. OTOH. Ya, every time I've seen a cop pull his gun I immediately think, whew, the situation is de-escalating. lol.
 
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kwtoxman said:
Look at your language in my quote. OTOH. Ya, every time I've seen a cop pull his gun I immediately think, whew, the situation is de-escalating. lol.
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Wrong of me to assume we were talking on the context of the situation this thread is about.
 
Seriously? Pulling a gun is de-escalation? Even Hollywood gets this right... Every time a cop in the movies goes to negotiate, the first thing they do is put away the gun.

I can't take Forcillo's testimony seriously.
 
So you are slightly drunk been an ******* at a bar, you slap a girl's *** and the BF takes you outside, he pulls a knife on you and he is about to launch against you, cop just arrives and.....

What do you think has a better chance to save your life and de-escalate the situation and get it under control? a or b.

a) Cop pulls his gun and points it at the guy that is about to stab you and tells him to drop the knife.
b) cop with a calm voice asks the guy that is about to stab you to drop his knife?

Read my previous comments, I am in no way defending the cop, but the fact i do not agree with what he did and feel he should go to jail and think his comments are just to try and save his ***, does not negate the fact that if I am causing trouble and a cop pulls a gun on me, my *** will be de-escalated.

Anyways this is a dumb discussion, I am out and we will see what happens.
 
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I think at this point he knows exactly what he did and how it was wrong and his testimony and the videos is just about excuses.

The one question I have, was Forcillo under the influence of any drugs himself at the time. I don't necessarily mean narcotics but stuff that maybe made him more aggressive? We will never know. Maybe they should have to provide a sample immediately after these incidents? I for one would like to know after someone is injured or killed by a cop he is not high, drunk or roided up.

As noted before, the first three shots I can somewhat live with, the guy had a knife and if I had to choose between the two options of a stabbed cop and a shot guy with a knife, I will pick shooting the guy with the knife. The de-escalation thing and arming more cops with tazers is a better yet third option not used at the time--and I would argue not entirely available (training).
 
Riceburner said:
Seriously? Pulling a gun is de-escalation? Even Hollywood gets this right... Every time a cop in the movies goes to negotiate, the first thing they do is put away the gun.

I can't take Forcillo's testimony seriously.
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Is Quentin Tarantino Hollywood? Because his Mexican Standoffs are not about de-escalation. Maybe he could shoot one going down an escalator using real Mexicans? I think it could swing either way.
 
inreb said:
Is Quentin Tarantino Hollywood? Because his Mexican Standoffs are not about de-escalation. Maybe he could shoot one going down an escalator using real Mexicans? I think it could swing either way.
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Your bike is still ugly :D
 
Funny enough his lawyer was mine when ex wife tried to get our son by saying I hit her even though I was at work at the time and day she said it to police.

Police still arrested me and said let courts figure it out my reply was even though evidence showed couldn't have happened my whole belief in police went out the window.
 
Irocian said:
Funny enough his lawyer was mine when ex wife tried to get our son by saying I hit her even though I was at work at the time and day she said it to police.

Police still arrested me and said let courts figure it out my reply was even though evidence showed couldn't have happened my whole belief in police went out the window.
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The Ontario government's "Policing Standards Manual" was updated over 20 years ago to require police to lay charges when it comes to allegations of domestic violence that have even a hint of reality. The Crown Policy Manual requires the Crown to proceed with prosecution and to not withdraw charges except in the most exceptional circumstances. They are required to accept the complaints of victims, real or faux, at face value unless there are glaring inconsistencies in the allegation, and even then they will likely play safe and leave it to a judge to figure out.

It sucks because it renders any partner in a relationship, especially those in tumultuous and volatile one, extremely vulnerable to malicious accusations. Simply being charged is a stain that will show up in many criminal record checks.
 
Yup caused many a explanations at the border but thankfully my story seemed to strike a cord with many a border agent and got in.

Now not even asked at border anymore.

When evidence that can't be faked and proven the story is not only unreal but also is being used in a custody battle should be looked at different.

Thankfully judge saw it for what it was and family court made me custodial parent due to her lies.

Still don't have any faith in police to many bad apples not punished.
 
ZX600 said:
So you are slightly drunk been an ******* at a bar, you slap a girl's *** and the BF takes you outside, he pulls a knife on you and he is about to launch against you, cop just arrives and.....

What do you think has a better chance to save your life and de-escalate the situation and get it under control? a or b.

a) Cop pulls his gun and points it at the guy that is about to stab you and tells him to drop the knife.
b) cop with a calm voice asks the guy that is about to stab you to drop his knife?
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De-escalation and gaining control of a situation are not the same thing.

In the situation you describe, there is no opportunity for de-escalation. At that point the attacker either needs to be stopped, or the victim gets it.
 
griff2 said:
My eyes have not seen the evidence close up in court. Social media and regular news media is a poor substitute for that.
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Everyone is judging by the evidence they have, not the evidence they don't have. Even the jury is doing that. Why can't you?

If new evidence comes to light or something changes, then of course everyone is entitled to change their opinions. No one expects everyone to have perfect knowledge of the truth.

So what do you say, based on what you know now? Where does Forcillo sit on the culpability spectrum, between a murderer with a badge and a highly competent and exemplary member of our police forces?
 
ZX600 said:
What do you think has a better chance to save your life and de-escalate the situation and get it under control? a or b.

a) Cop pulls his gun and points it at the guy that is about to stab you and tells him to drop the knife.
b) cop with a calm voice asks the guy that is about to stab you to drop his knife?
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De-escalation is not merely getting the situation "under control".

"Throughout the history of law enforcement, we've had the idea of 'never back down, never retreat,' '' Kansas City Police Chief Darryl Forté announced earlier this year. "We are encouraging and training our officers to use critical thinking and problem solving to avoid a situation in which they have to shoot someone to protect themselves.''
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...counters-violent-baltimore-ferguson/72636622/
 
The video shows some mixed emotions by all police on scene. Forcillo comes out gun drawn ready to engage yet his female partner/ immediate back has not drawn her gun and is walking away, never to be seen again.. Next police on scene is drawn and engaged.
They all see the continuous threat and continue yelling to drop the knife after all shots are dispensed.
DOnt forget this isn't some sleepy suburb in etobicoke, this is downtown where they deal with the scum of the scum all day long.
 
Have people arguing in defence of Forcillo ACTUALLy seen the videos of the incident? How can anyone in the right mind defend this cop? Yes there are times that cops must use their firearm but this was NOT one of them.
A guy with a knife in an empty street car (essentially a metal cage), posing threats to no one at this point, covere by an army of cops and this murderer shot him 9 times!
No taser (until it was just icing for him). Straight to 9 bullets in this kid!
This kid was troubled and if the street car was still full of people, i could see maybe why they went to shoot him to save others but at the point he was murdered, there was NO threat to anyone, specially to half of the police force surrounding the streetcar cops 9 feet away.
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