Were you there? I wasn't there. Nobody here was there. The people who were there aren't here.
Const. James Forcillo shot Sammy Yatim - the trial
- Thread starter MarcosSantiago
- Start date
Were you there? I wasn't there. Nobody here was there. The people who were there aren't here.
If Forcillo was on the streetcar in the isle with Yatim within strike distance his quick escalation would be more than warranted. Instead the police are at a safe distance and the suspect is contained. If Yatim tried to get out of the streetcar I could understand the first group shots to prevent Yatim from getting out into public. Given Yatim has a tiny pocket knife the 10 cops with batons could have contained the guy and saved his life. My issue with it all is that I don't feel Forcillo once thought about Yatims life. The only life that was as risk in that situation is Yatim's. The guy was in distress and fairly contained. Time only makes situations like this better and I don't feel it was given. It comes down to the two type of policing mind sets. The Warrior or the Guardian.
ashkan
Banned
Are you serious? No i wasnt there but what does that even mean when there are clear videos from multiple angles showing EXACTLY what happened!
I also wasnt there when the moon landing happened and when Rossi won the champinoship but there are clear evidance of things happening.
That argument hold no water since if evidance is not enough, then why do we have a court system? None of those in the jury were on location when it happened were they? So whats th epoint of them being i court and making a decision?
Thats such a redherring!
So i repeat, There are clear videos from multiple angels showing EXACTLY what happened.
-D-
Banned
Just a stupid thought...you had that many cops and as mentioned they have batons...10 cops throwing their batons at him at the same time seems to be a low tech solution to try.
Call fire dept, use a fire hose to spray him and knock the knife out of his hand.
I look at it this way, nobody knew if the "kid" was suffering mental issues or got bad news and went into a mental state...or somebody spiked his drink or weed.
Pretend it was your kid or family member...do you still believe 9 bullets was the solution.
How many Cops were there, with ALL of that collective training this was the result.
Not blaming all the other Cops as they were containing the situation and were likely wondering wtf...when the bullets were flying.
Fire hose or one of those flash bang grenades seems like a reasonable option...just saying.
The danger to this...it's that mindset that a cop can run you off the road or bump your bike and say you were fleeing.
You will be in a ditch or light post injured or dead....even if you were not hurt...who will believe you.
Call fire dept, use a fire hose to spray him and knock the knife out of his hand.
I look at it this way, nobody knew if the "kid" was suffering mental issues or got bad news and went into a mental state...or somebody spiked his drink or weed.
Pretend it was your kid or family member...do you still believe 9 bullets was the solution.
How many Cops were there, with ALL of that collective training this was the result.
Not blaming all the other Cops as they were containing the situation and were likely wondering wtf...when the bullets were flying.
Fire hose or one of those flash bang grenades seems like a reasonable option...just saying.
The danger to this...it's that mindset that a cop can run you off the road or bump your bike and say you were fleeing.
You will be in a ditch or light post injured or dead....even if you were not hurt...who will believe you.
Only being serious by using you as the litmus test. Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity.
My heart goes out to the Yatim family.
That poor kid needed help and didn't get it, instead he got shot down like a dog in the street. His state of mind was clearly questionable and he had consumed pills which didn't help (anyone walking about with their dick in one hand and a knife in the other definitely has mental issues, temporary or otherwise).
Forcillo may have pulled the trigger but I believe the systemic problems of brutality under Bill Blair did nothing to help. Note Blair's G20 policing record as well as the race-based carding by the Toronto police force under his watch. Sanders needs to address this.
The buck should stop with Blair, instead he washes his hands of the whole thing and gets a $180k job for life in parliament. At least Tardo didn't give him a cabinet position.
That poor kid needed help and didn't get it, instead he got shot down like a dog in the street. His state of mind was clearly questionable and he had consumed pills which didn't help (anyone walking about with their dick in one hand and a knife in the other definitely has mental issues, temporary or otherwise).
Forcillo may have pulled the trigger but I believe the systemic problems of brutality under Bill Blair did nothing to help. Note Blair's G20 policing record as well as the race-based carding by the Toronto police force under his watch. Sanders needs to address this.
The buck should stop with Blair, instead he washes his hands of the whole thing and gets a $180k job for life in parliament. At least Tardo didn't give him a cabinet position.
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-D-
Banned
It amazes me that everyone does not have essentially the same reaction...ok wait a minute, this could have been me or someone I know...this was just too easy and too quick.
Is this the kind of Policing we want (pay for).
As the old saying it may not be you today but it could be you tomorrow.
How much longer before some unstable kid/adult walks into some station with a home made device?
The Boston brothers showed just how easily it can be done.
Slim Jim
Well-known member
WTF, the only people that let him down is family. How can you blame Blair for their failure to get help for their kid. I don't feel sorry for them, they couldn't give a rats *** about him before this happened. Yes Forcillo over reacted, but in the end he rid the world of a menace to society.
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It seems like the kid had a bad reaction to some bad tablets he had taken. He had asked people to call police and an ambulance at the station he was at and again asked the street car driver to call his father. He clearly knew something wasn't right.
I don't think it warrants a death sentence just because he popped a couple of pills and had a bad reaction.
An I don't know how you think it wasn't Blair's fault. He ran policing in Toronto. Isn't he responsible to make sure officers were trained correctly and procedures were put in place. If not him the who?
To be honest the Street car driver was coping better that Toronto Police.
So you really don't feel sorry that this young man's life was taken?
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Some of the comments in this thread makes one's head shake .... The police force in general has a problem, a big one. More and more law abiding citizens lose faith in their real ability to serve and protect. Too many bad apples get in, or too many hired loose their cool in difficult situations which is exactly the kind they were hired, not to direct traffic when there's a lane closure due to road resurfacing. Too much of that ...
As I've said before there are two distinct police mindsets the 'Warrior' and the 'Guardian'. We have too many warriors in the police force and not enough guardian mindsets.
Guardian mindset: the officer is there to make sure everyone is as safe as possible and that includes the kid in distress from harming himself or others. Using communication to assess and control the situation to de-escalate it if possible. All tools are on the table and taking a life is only a last resort when in immediate danger.
Warrior mindset: Show up guns drawn screaming obscenities at the kid in distress. Dismiss other options to de-escalate and choosing not to communicate effectively and form an understanding of what is happening. Immediate escalation that paints self into corner where the only option is to shoot the kid despite posing no immediate threat.
We are not at war and we do not need warriors on the police force.
Guardian mindset: the officer is there to make sure everyone is as safe as possible and that includes the kid in distress from harming himself or others. Using communication to assess and control the situation to de-escalate it if possible. All tools are on the table and taking a life is only a last resort when in immediate danger.
Warrior mindset: Show up guns drawn screaming obscenities at the kid in distress. Dismiss other options to de-escalate and choosing not to communicate effectively and form an understanding of what is happening. Immediate escalation that paints self into corner where the only option is to shoot the kid despite posing no immediate threat.
We are not at war and we do not need warriors on the police force.
I disagree... with the warrior mindset comment.... I think the quick escalations are more of a cowardice reaction than they are from a warrior mindset.
-D-
Banned
It is interesting that people don't stop and consider especially bikers that they are viewed as menaces.
So this kid was ASKING for help and NOBODY had time to call an ambulance for him.
It amazes me how some here have such a callous view.
obvious question...how come the other cops that were already there did not feel afraid or the need to shoot him.
From what I read somewhere (don't know how accurate it was) this cop rolled up on the scene and within 2 minutes he was shooting...the comment was made that it takes longer to write a parking ticket than to get shot.
A simple blast from a fire hose would have resolved things easily and without serious injury or death.
-D-
Banned
I actually understood what you meant. A warrior knows they can kill you in the blink of an eye therefore that is their last recourse.
It's like the ppl with all the super duper martial arts training, most are calm and low key ppl. I guess when you know you have that level skill you tend not to have fear.
Did you guys see the shooting video released in the US where the cop drove up and just started shooting at the teenager walking...6+ shots even when the kid was on the ground he was shooting him. Took the cops 1 year to release the video.
'Warrior' mindset is just what it has been labeled by psychologists. I think it has more to do with the feeling of being at war and needing to always fight instead of de-escalate.
I do agree with your statement of what a warrior should actually stand for and these individuals bastardize the what the term should mean.
Well then... our definitions of a 'warrior' are much different...
pfbmgd
Well-known member
After reading these posts . I have the solution . Since all the couch warriors came up with great solutions . They cops should carry nets . Throw the net over Sammy . Then get the zoo to bring down the tranquilizer dart gun . Use the gun to put him to sleep . Then take him to the hospital for help . Everyone goes home happy .
